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Old 2006-07-17, 19:14   Link #1
Yondaime-Legacy
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Can Itachi Beat Yondaime

i would like to know if itachi has any chance against Yondaime (if he was still alive.. or is he?). Itachi has the MS, a bloodline limit obviously a huge advantage. Yondaime has Hiraishin No Jutsu and countless other Jutsus he hasnt revealed yet. I think it is impossible to tell like most of you will reply (since yondaime is not featured in the anime yet) but let say for instance he makes his appearence and is actually alive would he have the capabilities to beat the man feared by orochimaru even though yondaime is a junior to orochimaru
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Old 2006-07-17, 19:19   Link #2
xTwilightx
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Yondaime all the way, he could avoid the MS and still deal damage. He also has the frog summoning techniques of Jiraiya and seeing as Itachi got scared when he realized Jiraiya was there i would guess the same could be true with Yondaime.
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Old 2006-07-17, 19:30   Link #3
Kotengu
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With the jutsu we've seen yondaime use, he couldn't beat itachi.

With the jutsu we've learned he possesed/used, he couldn't beat itachi.

Only thru an assumption that Yondaime would be clever enough to get around regular&makengyo sharingan, would we be able to assume he could beat itachi (which I personally think he can do! )
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Old 2006-07-17, 19:40   Link #4
FireDetei
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Insatnt Teleport behind Itachi, Kunai in the throat.

Sharingan only lets the user see the presumed track a projectile would take (like a fist or Kunari or w/e). The teleporting Jutsu Yondaime uses instantly takes him to that point, there basicly is no "inbetween" and he can go anywhere he wishes to go, so Sharingan wouldn't be able to predict his movements because basicly he doesn't have any.

I guess you could take it to be like folding space like a piece of paper, if you draw a line across the fold, then open it back up, the two lines are far apart, there is no inbetween.
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Old 2006-07-17, 22:42   Link #5
cheese4u
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotengu
With the jutsu we've seen yondaime use, he couldn't beat itachi.

With the jutsu we've learned he possesed/used, he couldn't beat itachi.

Only thru an assumption that Yondaime would be clever enough to get around regular&makengyo sharingan, would we be able to assume he could beat itachi (which I personally think he can do! )

Absolutely, Yondaime is the ultimate genious ninja of Konoha, I personally beleive that anyone of the Hokages and the Sannin can get around the Mangekyo Sharingan (at least the genjutsu aspect of it) as far as any other techniques Itachi may possess I'm not too sure. But there is way more to Itachi then his Mangekyo Sharingan. His taijutsu skills are incredible, I honestly don't think he needed Mangekyo Sharingan to beat Kikashi, he could've easily handled Kikashi with his normal skills. But tsukiyomi was the best way out of the current situation without attracting more ninjas as he was trying to avoid.
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Old 2006-07-17, 23:58   Link #6
Yondaime-Legacy
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I think Itachi depends on his sharingan too much. He has been presented enough times for him to at least raise his hand. But noooo he hasnt even lifted his arms to perform handseals. All itachi has done so far is open his eyes to attack, which i find extremely irritating when he is suppose to be a man feared by Oro himself.

Yondaime has only been shown in the kakashi gaiden chapter and he showed what he was capable from the very start. A person to come up with a jutsu that the Sandaime (a genius, who mastered all of konoho jutsus) had to copy/use himself to defeat orochimaru is quite an accomplishment. I think from what we have seen and heard of Yondaime from the manga, it is quite enough to assume that he can not only beat Itachi but any character so far presented.
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Old 2006-07-18, 12:54   Link #7
rasedori
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we havent seen either of them really fighting before. well we saw itachi but he wasnt trying. personally i would say itachi because of his sharingan. he could copy the teleporting jutsu the fourth uses. or he could just no where the fourth will appear if u have the smarts which itachi does
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Old 2006-07-18, 13:04   Link #8
s-class uchiha
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The way that the question is framed - Of course Itachi COULD beat yondy.

Is there any doubt? Not saying he's better, but yea its very possible Itachi could beat him in battle, if not simply due to the MS.

A better question would be if they fought 5 battles (connected or not) how many would Itachi beat him in? I'd say Itachi 3 Yondy 2.

Why?

1) Orochimaru cannot defeat Itachi. Although this may be due to the sharigan, it doesn't matter the fact is Oro can't beat Itachi.

--> This disadvantage applies to yondy as well (that is sharingan), although he might be able to get around it, it certainly is a big advantage.

Ask me who is better? I have no idea. But if you ask me if Itachi COULD beat yondy fo sho.
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Old 2006-07-18, 14:19   Link #9
astayanax
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It is really hard to say.

The only true weakness Itachi showed so far is his chakra levels. With his MS; it is virtually an instant win for Itachi in every one on one confrontation that he was in so far... if he felt like it.

He is also the best genjutsu user so far in the series... He is so far the fastest ninjutsu user in the series (he had done multiple A+ rank ninjutsus in his fight against Kakashi so fast that Kakashi's master sharingan couldn't even pick up the slightest blur of a movement)... and he is one of the most powerful taijutsu users in the series; a simple mindless kick from him sent kurenai sprawling even though she blocked it. Make no mistake; Itachi is the most deadliest ninja shown so far when it comes to 1 on 1 combat to the extent where he is rdicioulously overpowered.

Can Orochimaru beat him? Not in straight combat. Can the 4th beat him? Not in straight combat. Both these guys have to find some way in tricking Itachi, or at least buy time to wear him down, for the moment of time they need to finish him off or they simply lose.
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Old 2006-07-18, 15:04   Link #10
s-class uchiha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astayanax
It is really hard to say.

The only true weakness Itachi showed so far is his chakra levels. With his MS; it is virtually an instant win for Itachi in every one on one confrontation that he was in so far... if he felt like it.

He is also the best genjutsu user so far in the series... He is so far the fastest ninjutsu user in the series (he had done multiple A+ rank ninjutsus in his fight against Kakashi so fast that Kakashi's master sharingan couldn't even pick up the slightest blur of a movement)... and he is one of the most powerful taijutsu users in the series; a simple mindless kick from him sent kurenai sprawling even though she blocked it. Make no mistake; Itachi is the most deadliest ninja shown so far when it comes to 1 on 1 combat to the extent where he is rdicioulously overpowered.

Can Orochimaru beat him? Not in straight combat. Can the 4th beat him? Not in straight combat. Both these guys have to find some way in tricking Itachi, or at least buy time to wear him down, for the moment of time they need to finish him off or they simply lose.
I'd like to add that someone like chiyoba said that if you meet an Uchiha 1 on 1 run away and that was for a generic one.

The only disagreement here is that its not conclusive (from that one kick) if he is one of the best taijutsu users. Just from what we've seen Kimi was more impressive (but I don't think he is better - cuz we havent seen much from Itachi).

But Astayanax gots it right. Itachi is the most deadliest 1 on 1 ninja so far.
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Old 2006-07-18, 15:26   Link #11
WLegend
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astayanax
It is really hard to say.

The only true weakness Itachi showed so far is his chakra levels. With his MS; it is virtually an instant win for Itachi in every one on one confrontation that he was in so far... if he felt like it.

He is also the best genjutsu user so far in the series... He is so far the fastest ninjutsu user in the series (he had done multiple A+ rank ninjutsus in his fight against Kakashi so fast that Kakashi's master sharingan couldn't even pick up the slightest blur of a movement)... and he is one of the most powerful taijutsu users in the series; a simple mindless kick from him sent kurenai sprawling even though she blocked it. Make no mistake; Itachi is the most deadliest ninja shown so far when it comes to 1 on 1 combat to the extent where he is rdicioulously overpowered.

Can Orochimaru beat him? Not in straight combat. Can the 4th beat him? Not in straight combat. Both these guys have to find some way in tricking Itachi, or at least buy time to wear him down, for the moment of time they need to finish him off or they simply lose.
Your opinion is based on 50 chapters back, Recent chapter is leading us to believe that Naruto has a bloodline too( which means Yondaime also ), Kyuubi told Sasuke not to kill Naruto or he will regret it. Yamato says he can be even stronger without kyuubi's powers. In my opinion, i think Naruto's body can handle all the Biyuu's, just look at how he handles Kyuubi, compared to Garaa, and i dont think its just the seals.

What makes you think Itachi is the most special person in the whole manga, He is very unique with his MS and speed, but not like there won't be any power to beat him.
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Old 2006-07-18, 15:30   Link #12
tatami
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arrgghhh isnt it enough already, WE HAVENT SEEN YONDAIME ENOUGH TO SEE HIS CAPACITY!!!

everyone says that yondaime has hiraishin bla bla and we only see his action once in the sealing kyubi and once in the kakashi gaiden...

think about this would itachi be able to seal or defeat kyuubi?
also gai can fight without lookin the eyes,so yondaime could also have same taijutsu abilities moreover kakashi was his student he would know about sharingan right?
if itaChi couldnt use his PRECIOUS eyes on him what would happen. i mean his ultimate weapon will be useles?

then again we dont know NOTHING about yondaime!!! he is not only hiraishin...

aimless and unuseful topics...boring!
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Old 2006-07-18, 15:45   Link #13
Mr. Johnny 5
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If they were to fight then i'd say Yondaime wins...

Orochimaru couldnt damage Naruto (4tailed) in his fight...and Itachi is stronger then Itachi.
I mean just look how powerfull Naruto is when he uses 4 tails...and there are still 5 more to go. Then also know that the Kyuubi has instant healing and can deflect certain jutsu's or weapons..

Itachi's greatest weakness is in his greatest ace (Mangekyou Sharingan...huge drain of chakra)...

I'd say the 4th was one of the greatest genius shinobi ever....not as a fan boy but...just look at what kind of jutsu's were used or developped by him.

Rasengan ---> Probably equal to an complete version of Chidori (Sharingan+Chidori)
Hiraishin ---> Instant Movement
Shiki Fuujin ---> Takes your freaking soul :S (I am sure that if he can take the Kyuubi's soul that he can take any kind of soul)

And i still assume that there were more of these kind of jutsu's.

Uchiha Itachi learned his techniques from a scroll (we have no idea what techniques he learned by himself) also the MS was learned from the Clan's secrets.

I also assume that the chakra capacity of Yondaime would be bigger cuz i am positive he used Gamabunta to battle the Kyuubi. And he would need a pool similair to Naruto or the Sannin to do such a thing.

Sucking the soul of the Kyuubi must've taken alot of chakra aswell...not to mention the use of jutsu to get even near it. I think Itachi has only 1,5x more then Kakashi...or equal to Kakashi...and Kakashi doesnt have that much chakra.

I know that these Genius Shinobi probably have more up their sleeve but my money would be on the 4th.
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Old 2006-07-18, 15:59   Link #14
tatami
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5
Sucking the soul of the Kyuubi must've taken alot of chakra aswell...not to mention the use of jutsu to get even near it. I think Itachi has only 1,5x more then Kakashi...or equal to Kakashi...and Kakashi doesnt have that much chakra.
well sandaime used shiki fuujin at the end of the battle while his chakra was not much so it doesnt need a lot to start the technique,but 9 tail is more greater then orochimaru as means of chakra and size.but it was not the same yondaime and sandaime cuz sandaime gave the soul to the death god,yondaime sealed it inside of naruto...
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Old 2006-07-18, 16:28   Link #15
Yondaime-Legacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WLegend
Your opinion is based on 50 chapters back, Recent chapter is leading us to believe that Naruto has a bloodline too( which means Yondaime also ), Kyuubi told Sasuke not to kill Naruto or he will regret it. Yamato says he can be even stronger without kyuubi's powers. In my opinion, i think Naruto's body can handle all the Biyuu's, just look at how he handles Kyuubi, compared to Garaa, and i dont think its just the seals.

What makes you think Itachi is the most special person in the whole manga, He is very unique with his MS and speed, but not like there won't be any power to beat him.

WOW!!. Finally someone believes that Naruto might have a bloodline (and in turns Yondaime has one too). I have mentioned this in another board and i have met with alot of skepticism. I have my reasons to believe that yondaime holds a bloodline but i will SAVE MY REASONS FOR ANOTHER THREAD.
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Old 2006-07-18, 16:36   Link #16
MobiuS
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Everyone assumes it was tough to seal the soul. Bullsh!t.

It was a fullout war. Noone was standing idle. I have no doubt YF snuck up and started pulling the soul.

Notice when Sarutobi was yanking Orochimaru's soul. He lost complete control of over 90% of his body due to the soul grip. And thats a bruised and battered Sarutobi with 1/3 of his remaining chakra after a huge fight with 3 Hokage Class Opponents.

YF no doubt mad more chakra than Sarutobi did in the incident. Also the pulling power of DeathGod is dependent on the individual's life force / chakra. Sarutobi slowed down in pulling Oros soul because HE was dying, not because Orochimaru was powerful.

So Kyuubi's chakra is NOT a factor. It probably took less than 3 minutes to sneak up to Kyuubi in the commotion of a war and cripple his entire body by starting to yank out his soul.

Grade Assesment of Soul Removal of Kyuubi: 1/10 on impressiveness.

The manga provides enough proof to show that its not a hard task to yank out the soul of anything.
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Old 2006-07-18, 16:53   Link #17
s-class uchiha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MobiuS
Everyone assumes it was tough to seal the soul. Bullsh!t.

It was a fullout war. Noone was standing idle. I have no doubt YF snuck up and started pulling the soul.

Notice when Sarutobi was yanking Orochimaru's soul. He lost complete control of over 90% of his body due to the soul grip. And thats a bruised and battered Sarutobi with 1/3 of his remaining chakra after a huge fight with 3 Hokage Class Opponents.

YF no doubt mad more chakra than Sarutobi did in the incident. Also the pulling power of DeathGod is dependent on the individual's life force / chakra. Sarutobi slowed down in pulling Oros soul because HE was dying, not because Orochimaru was powerful.

So Kyuubi's chakra is NOT a factor. It probably took less than 3 minutes to sneak up to Kyuubi in the commotion of a war and cripple his entire body by starting to yank out his soul.

Grade Assesment of Soul Removal of Kyuubi: 1/10 on impressiveness.

The manga provides enough proof to show that its not a hard task to yank out the soul of anything.
I agree w/ Mobius here. The really impressive thing about shiki fuuin or whatever is that the 4th came up w/ it - now that is genius. But to pull of the move maybe something else. Besides he didn't suck Kyuubi's soul into the netherworld or whatever like the 3rd did. THERE WAS NO 1 V 1 FIGHT like Naruto and Oro had.

Btw we can also see his genius by showing how he enabled Naruto and the kyuubi's chakara to mix - not to mention he also knows how to make jinchuuriki's.
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Old 2006-07-18, 16:56   Link #18
s-class uchiha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MobiuS
Everyone assumes it was tough to seal the soul. Bullsh!t.

It was a fullout war. Noone was standing idle. I have no doubt YF snuck up and started pulling the soul.

Notice when Sarutobi was yanking Orochimaru's soul. He lost complete control of over 90% of his body due to the soul grip. And thats a bruised and battered Sarutobi with 1/3 of his remaining chakra after a huge fight with 3 Hokage Class Opponents.

YF no doubt mad more chakra than Sarutobi did in the incident. Also the pulling power of DeathGod is dependent on the individual's life force / chakra. Sarutobi slowed down in pulling Oros soul because HE was dying, not because Orochimaru was powerful.

So Kyuubi's chakra is NOT a factor. It probably took less than 3 minutes to sneak up to Kyuubi in the commotion of a war and cripple his entire body by starting to yank out his soul.

Grade Assesment of Soul Removal of Kyuubi: 1/10 on impressiveness.

The manga provides enough proof to show that its not a hard task to yank out the soul of anything.
I agree w/ Mobius here. The really impressive thing about shiki fuuin or whatever is that the 4th came up w/ it - now that is genius. But to pull of the move maybe something else. Besides he didn't suck Kyuubi's soul into the netherworld or whatever like the 3rd did. THERE WAS NO 1 V 1 FIGHT like Naruto and Oro had.

Btw we can also see his genius by showing how he enabled Naruto and the kyuubi's chakara to mix - not to mention he also knows how to make jinchuuriki's.

@ Mobius - well kage bunshin is at least 3/10, you know shiki fuuin has got to be at least 5/10 in performance and a straight 10/10 for originality, creativity, and effectiveness (yes maybe not effective vs humans w/o dying; but when your facing a bijuu anything jutsu that can get rid of it is amazing).
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Old 2006-07-18, 17:05   Link #19
Kotengu
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Ah I see everyone's forgeting the basic rock paper sicsors principle of narutoverse!
EX:Neji>Lee>Naruto>Neji.
While this is an overly simpistic example (and semantic can be argued) thats the jist. If you can get around someone's rock with your paper, then you are pretty much going to win. All we've really seen Itachi do is MS. That's it. Nothing else he's done says 'I'm overpowered'. Likewise with yondaime. All we've seen him do is seal the kyuubi, and teleport. Just becasue his students, and one enemy couldn't pick up on it doesn't mean it's infallable. For all we know sharingan could see him start(or maybe even finish) the jutsu, which would leave him at a rediculously huge advantage. Imagine teleporting into a kunai. that would suck.

I mean, itachi already proved he could his things he couldn't even see when he had reagular sharningan. . .

So again, from what we've seen Itachi has what it takes to beat Yondaime. I still vote for the flash, but he's the underdog here. Make no mistake.
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Old 2006-07-18, 17:10   Link #20
Kotengu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yondaime-Legacy
WOW!!. Finally someone believes that Naruto might have a bloodline (and in turns Yondaime has one too). I have mentioned this in another board and i have met with alot of skepticism. I have my reasons to believe that yondaime holds a bloodline but i will SAVE MY REASONS FOR ANOTHER THREAD.
No bloodline proof. Wind specialization(for naruto) and And association(for YF) doesn't mean they are related, or that it's a bloodline. UNEQUE JUTSUS AREN"T BLOODLINE!

it's just a mark of mad skillz.
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