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Old 2006-07-19, 23:58   Link #41
Yondaime-Legacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MobiuS
@Yond-noob.

Lemme refresh your mind a little bit.
1.) Read Chapter 135. Gama could barely stand up to Shushaku (considerably weaker than Kyuubi) before Fake Sleep. After Fake Sleep, he was easily outclassed and required Kyuubi Chakra channeled through Naruto before he could even think of hurting Shushaku. Kyuubi is tons stronger than Shushaku. And Yondaime does not have a demon to use and channel power into Gamabunta. Please explain logically how Gama would be able to stand up to Kyuubi, when he cannot stand up to Shushaku.

2.) Read Chapter 124. Page 5. Oro clearly stated that his body could not move once the Death God gripped him. Also observed when the other two hokages were grabbed by the soul arm. What exactly is your point? Kusanagi was floating BEFORE he commanded it with his hand. He did move his hand before the DeathGod started dragging his soul out, so that doesnt count.

You are assuming a huger chakra target should be more difficult to pull. Can you find proof in the manga or is it assumption? You be the judge of that.

3.) Show me proof that Yondaime actually fought Kyuubi. He had made plans from Day 1 to seal it. The whole process was skipped but we know he did seal it in the end. Noone praises him for FIGHTING Kyuubi but for SEALING it. You assume he fought it. Where is your proof?

4.) Interestingly enough all your Wikipedia research has not pointed out these obvious points. Whats wrong with this scenario?

5.) FYI Naruto was a bigger help to Gamabunta than Yondaime could ever be. Naruto completely coated Gama in chakra and pumped Gama full of so much chakra that the full Shushaku who was owning him 2 minutes ago was completely beat in 1 move.



Interesting. So you think what you believe in your heart stands up to cold fact given in the manga that KISH created? Very interesting. Lets put your theory to test. So how do you "believe" this series will end? What do you "believe" will happen in the next episode? What do you "believe" is Naruto's Wind Jutsu? Who do you "believe" the Leader is?

Lets see how many of those your belief will be accurate on.

You my friend have problems with understanding simple written down english.
Lol Yond-noob. lol whotheF are you to say that. its like you mastered or p.h'd in narutoverse. congrats to the 6 yr who still is stubborn as hell to prove his genius points. I gotta hand it to you, you are an excellent reader. Everything you just said proved how empty your points are. You keep coming up with your own ideas of things and make it FACT. Yondaime cant channel chakra into Gamabunta (so smart a** i guess you know for a FACT once again that only naruto can channel chakra into gamabunta), and whats your point if he cant? I dont get your reasoning. Once again you dont read clearly my point isnt that gamabunta was gonna own 9 tails he was there to somehow help Yondaime so unless you think he was there for shit dont talk. You still cant take in the fact that oro actually moved his fingures when the death god was extracting his soul and like i said you gotta be retarded to not see it actaully happening. You quoted some manga chapters, wow congrats man, you dont prove anything because the anime SHOWS IT. I still think your somehow screwed, if you still cant see an episode proving it to you. All you did was put your once again genius assumption of "i am right and you are wrong, period" Would someone please tell this guy to learn how to read. I clearly stated my reasons and said they could be false, this kid just has time to argue so ill let him talk to himself. I got no time to be debating with a wall. I just hope i dont have to actually somehow communicate with this guy again. There are much more intelligent and understanding people in this forum, i rather debate/discuss with them.

good day,
hope your happy, your understanding of english is superb....

Last edited by Yondaime-Legacy; 2006-07-20 at 00:08.
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Old 2006-07-20, 06:40   Link #42
MobiuS
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Wow.

I prove my points with solid manga facts and you totally ignore them. Should I really expect anything more from a fanboy? Show me one place I assumed information. Ill willingly provide 3 places you did in response to that one.

1.) I showed you manga chapters for EASY REFERENCING. Its easier to find manga chapters than episodes unless you saved every episode on your hard-drive.

2.) Never did I say Naruto is the only one capable of channeling chakra into Gama. Im saying that no one in Naruto has as much chakra as Kyuubi. Naruto was using Kyuubi's chakra to buff up Gama during that fight. Something Yondaime could not possibly do for logistic reasons. Gama needed the huge chakra boost to overcome lowly Shushaku. How much more chakra would he need to even contend with Kyuubi? Can Yondaime prove that chakra? If both Yondaime and Gama have no way of fighting Kyuubi ... and its stated that Yondame spent time preparing a sealing ritual, what made you think Yondaime fought Kyuubi?

3.) If you actually looked up what I referenced to you, the hand of DeathGod touched Oro. He felt a weird sensation and immediately summoned Kusanagi to fly at Sarutobi. He then proceeded to start a jutsu but realized he was unable to do anything while DeathGod touched him. Sarutobi starts pulling the soul after a few minutes of chat. Orochimaru is immobile for the rest of the fight. We observed the same thing with the two Hokages. Once the soul pull began, they were unable to move. They were essentially severed from their body since the kunai programs on their body ceased to control their souls.

However since you stated it I would love to see Oro move his fingers when the DeathGod started the pull from the body. He did so in the anime but in Naruto the manga is gospel. Many times has it been observed that the Anime skewed information for entertainment purposes. Eg. Tsunade 1HKO Orochimaru (manga) versus 5+Hits (anime). Theres many more but I cant think of any this morning. So if you want to prove your point, I suggest you use the manga to avoid looking like a dunce.

3.) Im not assuming anything. I gave you what I saw in the manga. And since you have no reply whatsoever to obvious fact in the manga you went with a smear campaign to try and make me look bad and insult me. Nice try, but no cigar.

4.) When arguing a point, no one cares what you personally feel. We care about the facts. If you can not provide that, you have not provided an argument. Rather, you have provided a fanboy ranting. Its been fun putting you in your place, though.

5.) Thanks! Im a Writers Craft student. I would be very disturbed to note that a random fanboy has better mastery over the English language than I do.


PS. 6+13 = My Age

Spoiler for Just For YL's Eyes:
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Last edited by MobiuS; 2006-07-20 at 06:52.
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Old 2006-07-20, 09:24   Link #43
Mr. Johnny 5
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Ok i thought about something though i dont know if the 4th had soo much chakra....what if he used these jutsu's to beat the Kyuubi:

It's pretty long so...

Spoiler:


A pretty creative thought isnt it?
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Old 2006-07-20, 09:56   Link #44
MobiuS
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I like the idea. Im also very glad you specified that its your rendition and idea, and not fact of what happened like some others are trying to do. Although heres what I hoped it would look like.

Spoiler for My Idea:


Not as detailed, but I would love it if that were how it happened.
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Old 2006-07-20, 11:30   Link #45
Mr. Johnny 5
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Well ofcourse all we do is making idea's and discuss about it...only few things are considred or can be considred a fact.

As for your story...

...nice...you know i too think that Gamabunta received that Scar fighting the Kyuubi..

But that would mean that Summonings CAN die.. right?

(Oro's snakes keep on coming...)
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Old 2006-07-20, 13:42   Link #46
MobiuS
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Mr Johnny. Somewhere out there a mommy snake and daddy snake are spending every second of the day creating "summons" for Orochimaru. THATS my theory.
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Old 2006-07-20, 14:41   Link #47
Hunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius
Never did I say Naruto is the only one capable of channeling chakra into Gama. Im saying that no one in Naruto has as much chakra as Kyuubi. Naruto was using Kyuubi's chakra to buff up Gama during that fight
No he didn't. Naruto did the jutsu with Gamabunta's chakra.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5
But that would mean that Summonings CAN die.. right?

(Oro's snakes keep on coming...)
That wouldn't be the first time. Sasuke and Naruto both killed a snake way back in the forest of death and Jiraiya crushed one during the war.
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Old 2006-07-20, 14:41   Link #48
Mr. Johnny 5
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Tss...yeah right....should i now ask how kids are being born? His weaker snakes die all the time...

To Hunter:
Also Hunter...even if he killed those indeed...how come they keep comming back?
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Old 2006-07-20, 14:47   Link #49
Hunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5
Tss...yeah right....should i now ask how kids are being born? His weaker snakes die all the time...
All I can say it that it probably involves storks.

Quote:
Also Hunter...even if he killed those indeed...how come they keep comming back?
What make you think these are the same snakes?
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Old 2006-07-20, 14:49   Link #50
Yondaime-Legacy
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Like I said before, I wont reply to some kid with the mind of a retard to compel me once again to prove how wrong they are. I already did but no man can change the mind of a cynic, who believes his word to be fact. The more i reply to your very idiotic posts that only prove that you want to continue the useless debate the more you will post with new theories you come up with. I read your post and once i again i couldnt stop myself from laughing at how narrow minded and stupid some kid could be. I dont believe your age at all, but if you then good luck in life my friend, youll need it. Another thing you gotta stop seeing naruto as a science of some sort. Your answers are seem to see narutoverse as if it were a reality and that its either your way or the highway. Your posts carry no weight, anyone could reply with an alternative when it comes to naruto. I dont have a problem with it, its you that has a problem with it and i rather not talk with a block head if thats all they could mention. Hope you can at least succumb and understand this post if you couldnt understand the rest.

btw stop answering to my post,
iam always compelled to reply when you post so please end it at this, i rather not answer to stubborn ass cynics. Its really sad i was hoping intelligent posts, but i was stuck with only you responding. how sad, o well always another thread to look forward to
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Old 2006-07-20, 14:49   Link #51
Yondaime-Legacy
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Like I said before, I wont reply to some kid with the mind of a retard to compel me once again to prove how wrong they are. I already did but no man can change the mind of a cynic, who believes his word to be fact. The more i reply to your very idiotic posts that only prove that you want to continue the useless debate the more you will post with new theories you come up with. I read your post and once i again i couldnt stop myself from laughing at how narrow minded and stupid some kid could be. I dont believe your age at all, but if you then good luck in life my friend, youll need it. Another thing you gotta stop seeing naruto as a science of some sort. Your answers are seem to see narutoverse as if it were a reality and that its either your way or the highway. Your posts carry no weight, anyone could reply with an alternative when it comes to naruto. I dont have a problem with it, its you that has a problem with it and i rather now talk with a block head if thats all they could mention. Hope you can at least succumb and understand this post if you couldnt understand the rest.

btw stop answering to my post,
iam always compelled to reply when you post so please end it at this, i rather not not to stubborn ass cynics. Its really sad i was hoping intelligent posts, but i was stuck with only you responding. how sad, o well always another thread to look forward to
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Old 2006-07-20, 14:56   Link #52
Yondaime-Legacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
No he didn't. Naruto did the jutsu with Gamabunta's chakra.



That wouldn't be the first time. Sasuke and Naruto both killed a snake way back in the forest of death and Jiraiya crushed one during the war.


at least someone sees how lame his reasons are, dont argue with him hes gonna prove you WRONG. lol
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Old 2006-07-21, 07:10   Link #53
MobiuS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yondaime-Legacy
Like I said before, I wont reply to some kid with the mind of a retard to compel me once again to prove how wrong they are. I already did but no man can change the mind of a cynic, who believes his word to be fact. The more i reply to your very idiotic posts that only prove that you want to continue the useless debate the more you will post with new theories you come up with. I read your post and once i again i couldnt stop myself from laughing at how narrow minded and stupid some kid could be. I dont believe your age at all, but if you then good luck in life my friend, youll need it. Another thing you gotta stop seeing naruto as a science of some sort. Your answers are seem to see narutoverse as if it were a reality and that its either your way or the highway. Your posts carry no weight, anyone could reply with an alternative when it comes to naruto. I dont have a problem with it, its you that has a problem with it and i rather not talk with a block head if thats all they could mention. Hope you can at least succumb and understand this post if you couldnt understand the rest.

btw stop answering to my post,
iam always compelled to reply when you post so please end it at this, i rather not answer to stubborn ass cynics. Its really sad i was hoping intelligent posts, but i was stuck with only you responding. how sad, o well always another thread to look forward to
Interesting how you changed from trying to prove a point using facts to attacking me personally with ne reference to the questions whatsoever. Running out of proof?
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Old 2006-07-21, 07:18   Link #54
MobiuS
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Hunter you are correct. I read the bubble wrong. It looked like it was coming from Naruto, but in actuality there was a panel divide I missed. -_-*

Glad to see someone is backing points with proof, eitherways. Since Hunter was kind enough to look into the matter, I would appreciate it if you could point out any further holes in my argument. I dont want to walk around with the wrong precept over something silly like glancing over two panels really quickly.

Yondaime thats a minor point that should not have significant basis on the original question. And I grow weary of trying to discuss with people who believe the best way to approach an argument is by completely ignoring the point and using personal attacks for 1/2 a page. Thats convincing proof ...
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Old 2006-07-21, 09:16   Link #55
adien_000
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hell no the 4th would kick uchias ass didnt u hear i think not to sure little tired but the body flicker or his justu cant bee seen by the sharigun or the babyura think spelled it right
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Old 2006-07-21, 10:40   Link #56
Yondaime-Legacy
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Hahah, attacking you personally? Like i said already you only listen to yourself. And i see that you try to justify your points by going around the mistakes you made. I already made my points people read them unlike you and they know whos obviously right. its funny actually, your using my rebuttals. i was the one that you said you completely ignore my reasons and now you actually have the nerve to say i ignore you? plus i stated why i would ignore you and why you deserved to be ignored yet you post again and again. seriously iam begining to think your not only retarded but have reading deficiency problems (no offence intended to anyone else). sorry man, i know you want me to argue with you back but its not worth it... your just a nuisance. ANYWAYS, i only posted again cuz i was curious as to what someone Adien 000 had to say and i saw your post which tempted me to reply to it.

Adien iam glad you agree with me. Madara is more in Yondaime's league in my opinion. i was wondering if madara was actually in yondaime's team. before you start laughing your ass, look at yondaime's teammates (the middle one).
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Old 2006-07-21, 13:10   Link #57
Kyuketsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MobiuS
Everyone assumes it was tough to seal the soul. Bullsh!t.

It was a fullout war. Noone was standing idle. I have no doubt YF snuck up and started pulling the soul.

Notice when Sarutobi was yanking Orochimaru's soul. He lost complete control of over 90% of his body due to the soul grip. And thats a bruised and battered Sarutobi with 1/3 of his remaining chakra after a huge fight with 3 Hokage Class Opponents.

YF no doubt mad more chakra than Sarutobi did in the incident. Also the pulling power of DeathGod is dependent on the individual's life force / chakra. Sarutobi slowed down in pulling Oros soul because HE was dying, not because Orochimaru was powerful.

So Kyuubi's chakra is NOT a factor. It probably took less than 3 minutes to sneak up to Kyuubi in the commotion of a war and cripple his entire body by starting to yank out his soul.

Grade Assesment of Soul Removal of Kyuubi: 1/10 on impressiveness.

The manga provides enough proof to show that its not a hard task to yank out the soul of anything.
Why does everyone assume it?

BECAUSE NOBODY ELSE COULD FUCKING DO IT FFS.

The sandiame couldn't completely seal off orochimaru, why?Because it's a hard thing to do against someone who is as strong as you. Now imagine doing that to a creature who can nonchalantly cause tsunamis and destroy civilizations with a flick of it's tail.
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Old 2006-07-21, 13:18   Link #58
MobiuS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yondaime-Legacy
Hahah, attacking you personally? Like i said already you only listen to yourself. And i see that you try to justify your points by going around the mistakes you made. I already made my points people read them unlike you and they know whos obviously right. its funny actually, your using my rebuttals. i was the one that you said you completely ignore my reasons and now you actually have the nerve to say i ignore you? plus i stated why i would ignore you and why you deserved to be ignored yet you post again and again. seriously iam begining to think your not only retarded but have reading deficiency problems (no offence intended to anyone else). sorry man, i know you want me to argue with you back but its not worth it... your just a nuisance. ANYWAYS, i only posted again cuz i was curious as to what someone Adien 000 had to say and i saw your post which tempted me to reply to it.

Adien iam glad you agree with me. Madara is more in Yondaime's league in my opinion. i was wondering if madara was actually in yondaime's team. before you start laughing your ass, look at yondaime's teammates (the middle one).
Proofless = pointless. Show me in the last 3~4 posts where you gave a reasonable explanation for anything. If you dont have one, thats fine. Noone has all the answers. But all Im saying is dont parade your assumptions as fact simply because you think thats the way it was. Its great that you have your perspective. Noone is knockign you for it. But as long as you state that it is just your opinion and not manga facts, then theres no beef. So far you havent provided any fact for your examples so what exactly is there for me to ignore other than your pathetic attempts at discrediting my point simply because it doesnt go along with your assumptions?

Spoiler for Legacy to read:
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Last edited by MobiuS; 2006-07-21 at 13:36.
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Old 2006-07-21, 13:30   Link #59
MobiuS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuketsi
Why does everyone assume it?

BECAUSE NOBODY ELSE COULD FUCKING DO IT FFS.

The sandiame couldn't completely seal off orochimaru, why?Because it's a hard thing to do against someone who is as strong as you. Now imagine doing that to a creature who can nonchalantly cause tsunamis and destroy civilizations with a flick of it's tail.
Erm. Sarutobi was clearly weaker than either of the two hokages summoned and he sealed them easily simply because he still had his life force. The jutsu depends on the individual's body as a gateway for DeathGod to reach through. At least the way Sarutobi depicts it. If that gateway is destroyed or greatly weakened, the jutsu disappears.

The upside is that the jutsu cripples the body as seen versus both Hokages and Orochimaru. They were unable to move once the DeathGod started pulling. Sarutobi was unable to pull Orochimaru's soul out simply because he was dying. He had spent all his chakra and his body was leaking while impaled by Kusanagi (which by the way was able to hurt the Staff Mode of Enma which is supposed to be strong as diamonds if I recall correctly).

When he realized he wont live long enough to pull out all of Orochimaru's soul, he took Orochimaru's soul arm and sealed the contract when he bound Oro's soul arms to his soul.

Orochimaru's very comment shows that he was unable to move due to the DeathGod. I dont know why you are arguing against it when the manga has stated so. Until Kish reveals that your chakra capacity / size can affect the sealing process, it is far much more logical to agree with the manga when it depicts that individuals are crippled when DeathGod starts pulling their soul.

Mind you, a few other people knew that same jutsu since YellowFlash taught it to them. Sarutobi for one. And even if he didnt teach them, we know the other 8 demons were sealed. And Im sure it wasnt YellowFlash that did it. At least we know thats untrue in the case of Gaara. So no ... YellowFlash isnt the only person to seal a demon. The person who sealed Shushaku survived the process (if I recall correctly). Even right there in Konoha, Sarutobi was capable of doing it.

The fact is ... its the Hokage's job to protect the village. It would have been an insult to YellowFlash if someone else died for the village using his own move while he was there. At least I think it would be.
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Old 2006-07-21, 14:00   Link #60
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MobiuS
Erm. Sarutobi was clearly weaker than either of the two hokages summoned and he sealed them easily simply because he still had his life force. The jutsu depends on the individual's body as a gateway for DeathGod to reach through. At least the way Sarutobi depicts it. If that gateway is destroyed or greatly weakened, the jutsu disappears.

The upside is that the jutsu cripples the body as seen versus both Hokages and Orochimaru. They were unable to move once the DeathGod started pulling. Sarutobi was unable to pull Orochimaru's soul out simply because he was dying. He had spent all his chakra and his body was leaking while impaled by Kusanagi (which by the way was able to hurt the Staff Mode of Enma which is supposed to be strong as diamonds if I recall correctly).

When he realized he wont live long enough to pull out all of Orochimaru's soul, he took Orochimaru's soul arm and sealed the contract when he bound Oro's soul arms to his soul.

Orochimaru's very comment shows that he was unable to move due to the DeathGod. I dont know why you are arguing against it when the manga has stated so. Until Kish reveals that your chakra capacity / size can affect the sealing process, it is far much more logical to agree with the manga when it depicts that individuals are crippled when DeathGod starts pulling their soul.

Mind you, a few other people knew that same jutsu since YellowFlash taught it to them. Sarutobi for one. And even if he didnt teach them, we know the other 8 demons were sealed. And Im sure it wasnt YellowFlash that did it. At least we know thats untrue in the case of Gaara. So no ... YellowFlash isnt the only person to seal a demon. The person who sealed Shushaku survived the process (if I recall correctly). Even right there in Konoha, Sarutobi was capable of doing it.

The fact is ... its the Hokage's job to protect the village. It would have been an insult to YellowFlash if someone else died for the village using his own move while he was there. At least I think it would be.
Besides it was somewhat implied that Sarutobi could not finished sealing Oro because of Sandaime half death state (yeah sometimes poeple forget he had a Sword rgth trough his body), differently on how his Kage Bushin could take the soul easiley out of the other death Hokages.

Saying that Yondaime could seal Kyuby because he was somehow at the same level of strength and Chakra as Kyuby, at this point is just a Theory that does snot makes sense (and overpowering Yondaime in the process)

Also, some people put Yondaime had a clash of titans against Kyuby, for all we know Kyuby was lured to a big seal that restrained his movement, and then Yondaime proceided to do the extraction.
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