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Old 2006-07-21, 16:03   Link #21
Skyfall
Lost in my dreams...
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 28
Nop, ep 39 is when Kira gets his SF
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Old 2006-07-21, 16:33   Link #22
grandmaster192
Zechs, pilot of Tallgeese
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall
Nop, ep 39 is when Kira gets his SF
oh. I thought it ws 38 when he got his Strike Freedom.
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"There's one more thing required to attain total peace: a strong heart that can empathize with people! Like yours... You're too pure and kind, but I guess that's what gives you the right to live. I'm going to live right to the bitter end! I'll live the hard life of a warrior! 'Till we meet again, Heero!"

-Zechs "Lightning Count" Marquis
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Old 2006-07-21, 20:17   Link #23
Tak
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Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall
Well its true that they both worry about her, but if you would ask me wich one cares more id go with Athrun. At least he has the will to do something even in his condition while he cant even sit up, but Kira simply stands there and does nothing untill Neo announces that Athrun is telling Kira to go. He just sits there while Lacus is about to be killed and does nothing because he has been told so. Athrun wants to save her no matter what, Kira is ready to sit there because he has been told so.
That is not how I look at it. I believe Kira was worried as heck, and he was going to go anyway, like how he wanted to escort Lacus all the way into space. Look, its just by coincidence that a half-dead Athrun was there, and had to be redundant to tell Kira to do what he was already doing anyway.

That and both Kira & Lacus had great faith for one another. Lacus was intially worried when Kira stepped into the cockpit again, just as Kira was worried when Lacus decided to goto Plant. Nonetheless, they both realized that they needed to trust each other and do what they were supposed to do anyway.

- Tak
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Old 2006-07-21, 20:49   Link #24
grandmaster192
Zechs, pilot of Tallgeese
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Man...I wonder who has more control over there gundam pilot. Relena with Heero, or Lacus with Kira. lol!!!!! XD XD XD XD
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"There's one more thing required to attain total peace: a strong heart that can empathize with people! Like yours... You're too pure and kind, but I guess that's what gives you the right to live. I'm going to live right to the bitter end! I'll live the hard life of a warrior! 'Till we meet again, Heero!"

-Zechs "Lightning Count" Marquis
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Old 2006-07-21, 20:53   Link #25
Silent Soldier
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Greatness
Man...I wonder who has more control over there gundam pilot. Relena with Heero, or Lacus with Kira. lol!!!!! XD XD XD XD
I think that would be Lacus with Kira in destiny it seemed as though he would do anything she told him. At least Heero was still in control of himself and making his own decision's, he loved Relena but could still think for himself. Lacus had Kira wrapped around her little finger, and Kira loved very minute of it.
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Old 2006-07-21, 21:11   Link #26
grandmaster192
Zechs, pilot of Tallgeese
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Soldier
I think that would be Lacus with Kira in destiny it seemed as though he would do anything she told him. At least Heero was still in control of himself and making his own decision's, he loved Relena but could still think for himself. Lacus had Kira wrapped around her little finger, and Kira loved very minute of it.
I think Heero's personality just makes it look that way. If you look at it Lacus and Relena both have pretty mutch the power and authority over their world and their gundam pilots.
__________________
"There's one more thing required to attain total peace: a strong heart that can empathize with people! Like yours... You're too pure and kind, but I guess that's what gives you the right to live. I'm going to live right to the bitter end! I'll live the hard life of a warrior! 'Till we meet again, Heero!"

-Zechs "Lightning Count" Marquis
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Old 2006-07-21, 21:20   Link #27
Mr. DJ
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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I'd agree, it's not like Kira's a mindless drone, he's just the strong, silent type
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Old 2006-07-21, 21:26   Link #28
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Greatness
I think Heero's personality just makes it look that way. If you look at it Lacus and Relena both have pretty mutch the power and authority over their world and their gundam pilots.
Not really, Lacus is actually the one with an entire fleet under her personal direction, and not afraid to use it. Relena ended up hiding in a bunker, completely powerless as she saw what she had worked so hard for ruined completely (until the Gundam pilots showed up).

When Lacus goes in battle, her presence is felt and her threats are taken seriously. Relena? Well... not so fortunate.

The two women are different. While both seek to achieve prolonged peace, Lacus is the one who takes a direct approach, with arms.

- Tak
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Old 2006-07-21, 21:47   Link #29
grandmaster192
Zechs, pilot of Tallgeese
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak
Not really, Lacus is actually the one with an entire fleet under her personal direction, and not afraid to use it. Relena ended up hiding in a bunker, completely powerless as she saw what she had worked so hard for ruined completely (until the Gundam pilots showed up).

When Lacus goes in battle, her presence is felt and her threats are taken seriously. Relena? Well... not so fortunate.

The two women are different. While both seek to achieve prolonged peace, Lacus is the one who takes a direct approach, with arms.

- Tak
Relena wasn't hiding, she was kid naped. I don't remember Lacus going into battle....I never seen Lacus do anything like that. Now Relena atleast shoots at people. you say Relena's presence isnt' felt but I must disagree my good man. Relena's presence must be felt if She has Zechs, Heero and the rest of the ace pilots by her side. Plus She's the one that helped Heero bring peice to the world if I remember right.
__________________
"There's one more thing required to attain total peace: a strong heart that can empathize with people! Like yours... You're too pure and kind, but I guess that's what gives you the right to live. I'm going to live right to the bitter end! I'll live the hard life of a warrior! 'Till we meet again, Heero!"

-Zechs "Lightning Count" Marquis
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Old 2006-07-21, 22:03   Link #30
Tak
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Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Greatness
Relena wasn't hiding, she was kid naped. I don't remember Lacus going into battle....I never seen Lacus do anything like that. Now Relena atleast shoots at people. you say Relena's presence isnt' felt but I must disagree my good man. Relena's presence must be felt if She has Zechs, Heero and the rest of the ace pilots by her side. Plus She's the one that helped Heero bring peice to the world if I remember right.
You are right that Lacus did not pick up a gun to shoot someone, but the fact remains that she went to war personally numerous times, with her Eternal as the flagship. She had been through the thick of battle and survived countless encounters. In contrast to Relena, who spent most time running, Lacus was personally directing her forces against perceived enemies.

Relena's presence may be felt by her allies, but it does not generate fear in her enemies. Relena came off as being too naive to me, she naively disregarded several Gundams (including the Wing Zero), leaving them to rot for several years (although the choices may not be hers alone) and was almost unprepared for a war. She always thought she could have accomplished her goal through negotiations and negotiations only. Lacus? Fortunately not that naive. No, she may try negotiations first, but she made sure she had a fleet and enough firepower waiting for her in case negotiations fail. That is the difference between these two characters.

- Tak
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Old 2006-07-21, 22:24   Link #31
grandmaster192
Zechs, pilot of Tallgeese
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak
You are right that Lacus did not pick up a gun to shoot someone, but the fact remains that she went to war personally numerous times, with her Eternal as the flagship. She had been through the thick of battle and survived countless encounters. In contrast to Relena, who spent most time running, Lacus was personally directing her forces against perceived enemies.
Hmm....you may be right about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak
Relena's presence may be felt by her allies, but it does not generate fear in her enemies.
She doesn't bring fear to enimeis, but her enimies do respect her and she seems get more to fall for her beliefs the Lacus does. Relena's words are alot stronger then Lacus's and touch more people. Lacus's words don't have the same effect so she needs to use her powerful Gundam's to force people into doing what she says.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak
Relena came off as being too naive to me, she naively disregarded several Gundams (including the Wing Zero), leaving them to rot for several years (although the choices may not be hers alone) and was almost unprepared for a war. She always thought she could have accomplished her goal through negotiations and negotiations only. Lacus? Fortunately not that naive. No, she may try negotiations first, but she made sure she had a fleet and enough firepower waiting for her in case negotiations fail. That is the difference between these two characters.
Thats all because Relena is more mature then Lacus and has stronger words and negotiation skills. Lacus just comes in ZAFT style and over powers her enimeis with Kira.
__________________
"There's one more thing required to attain total peace: a strong heart that can empathize with people! Like yours... You're too pure and kind, but I guess that's what gives you the right to live. I'm going to live right to the bitter end! I'll live the hard life of a warrior! 'Till we meet again, Heero!"

-Zechs "Lightning Count" Marquis
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Old 2006-07-21, 22:25   Link #32
shaolo
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak
You are right that Lacus did not pick up a gun to shoot someone, but the fact remains that she went to war personally numerous times, with her Eternal as the flagship. She had been through the thick of battle and survived countless encounters. In contrast to Relena, who spent most time running, Lacus was personally directing her forces against perceived enemies.

Relena's presence may be felt by her allies, but it does not generate fear in her enemies. Relena came off as being too naive to me, she naively disregarded several Gundams (including the Wing Zero), leaving them to rot for several years (although the choices may not be hers alone) and was almost unprepared for a war. She always thought she could have accomplished her goal through negotiations and negotiations only. Lacus? Fortunately not that naive. No, she may try negotiations first, but she made sure she had a fleet and enough firepower waiting for her in case negotiations fail. That is the difference between these two characters.

- Tak
But who between the two of them have actually accomplished there goal of peace?

Relena take one series and OVA to accomplished her goal ,but with Lacus it takes two series and not even close to her goal.
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Old 2006-07-21, 22:38   Link #33
Tak
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaolo
But who between the two of them have actually accomplished there goal of peace?

Relena take one series and OVA to accomplished her goal ,but with Lacus it takes two series and not even close to her goal.
Yeah, Relena accomplished her goal of peace only because no direct sequel to Gundam Wing was ever planned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Greatness
Thats all because Relena is more mature then Lacus and has stronger words and negotiation skills. Lacus just comes in ZAFT style and over powers her enimeis with Kira.
And Relena used Heero to overpower everyone, its the same. At least Lacus was cautious not to be put into a compromising situation. She had far more choices than Relena ever did. Even her enemies knew, that if she marched into war, she was serious and she meant business. Relena? After watching all episodes of Wing, I cannot recall an enemy who found Relena's name profound.

- Tak

Last edited by Tak; 2006-07-21 at 22:52.
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Old 2006-07-21, 22:50   Link #34
shaolo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak
And Relena used Heero to overpower everyone, its the same. At least Lacus was cautious not to be put into a compromising situation. She had far more choices than Relena ever did. Even her enemies knew, that if she marched into war, she was serious and she meant business. Relena? After watching all episodes of Wing, I cannot recall an enemy who found Relena's name profound.

- Tak
It seem that you are not look hard enough.

Plus, Shining Greatness said "Thats all because Relena is more mature then Lacus and has stronger words and negotiation skills. Lacus just comes in ZAFT style and over powers her enimeis with Kira" not I.
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Old 2006-07-21, 22:53   Link #35
Tak
☭ автомат Калашникова ☭
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaolo
It seem that you are not look hard enough.
Well, you are certainly welcomed to disagree with me. I respect your opinions, but I have mine, too.

- Tak
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Old 2006-07-21, 22:58   Link #36
grandmaster192
Zechs, pilot of Tallgeese
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak
And Relena used Heero to overpower everyone, its the same
Thats not true. Heero didn't overpower anything. It's not like Relena just overpowerd OZ. She used her peacecraft name and negotiation skills. Lacus just sent in Kira and Athrun to blow up anything ZAFT. now that I think about Lacus just manipulates Kira and Athrun do her dirty work just like Gilbert does Shinn. Lacus is Evil!!! Heero wasn't even doing anything....Just fighting Zechs because the Wing Zero told him to.
__________________
"There's one more thing required to attain total peace: a strong heart that can empathize with people! Like yours... You're too pure and kind, but I guess that's what gives you the right to live. I'm going to live right to the bitter end! I'll live the hard life of a warrior! 'Till we meet again, Heero!"

-Zechs "Lightning Count" Marquis
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Old 2006-07-21, 23:10   Link #37
Tak
☭ автомат Калашникова ☭
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Greatness
Thats not true. Heero didn't overpower anything. It's not like Relena just overpowerd OZ. She used her peacecraft name and negotiation skills. Lacus just sent in Kira and Athrun to blow up anything ZAFT. now that I think about Lacus just manipulates Kira and Athrun do her dirty work just like Gilbert does Shinn. Lacus is Evil!!!
If Lacus was negotiating at the level of Relena, she would have been, like Relena, kidnapped and placed at the mercy of her enemies. But script warrants that her enemies must wait until Wing Zero arrives, blow a hole through the bunker, until a failed attempt on her life can begin. Meh.

Yeah, Heero is a good pilot, an extremely good pilot, good enough to go face to face with Kira. Its only fortunate that Relena had an ally in him. In fact, Relena's plans almost always gone haywire because she never had a backup plan. If it wasn't for the likes of Heero (& co) fixing things up, I don't know where Relena would end up? Lacus on the other hand, made sure each time she had a plan B. If talk didn't work, she had an assurance of victory in war.

I will agree that Lacus is manipulative, since she does sport a dual personality, one seemingly with an on/off switch she flips at will. Nonetheless, at least her concern over her allies' well-being is true.

- Tak
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Old 2006-07-21, 23:26   Link #38
grandmaster192
Zechs, pilot of Tallgeese
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Well Tak....I respect your opinons and the points you bring up, but I still don't see how Lacus holds more power then Relena. Both have their wing gundam pilots, both have strong words, ect...I'm just not seeing it. Isn't Relena the Queen of the world or something like that? (I don't remember) I still say that Lacus and Relena are really alike. They would probaly get along really good.
__________________
"There's one more thing required to attain total peace: a strong heart that can empathize with people! Like yours... You're too pure and kind, but I guess that's what gives you the right to live. I'm going to live right to the bitter end! I'll live the hard life of a warrior! 'Till we meet again, Heero!"

-Zechs "Lightning Count" Marquis
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Old 2006-07-21, 23:37   Link #39
Tak
☭ автомат Калашникова ☭
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Greatness
Well Tak....I respect your opinons and the points you bring up, but I still don't see how Lacus holds more power then Relena. Both have their wing gundam pilots, both have strong words, ect...I'm just not seeing it. Isn't Relena the Queen of the world or something like that? (I don't remember) I still say that Lacus and Relena are really alike. They would probaly get along really good.
With all due respect, my points were quite simple, really.

1. Lacus doesn't get herself kidnapped, since she doesn't attempt things alone, if ever.

2. Lacus made sure she had a back up plan when trying anything.

3. Lacus has a (for the lack of a better phrase) big-ass-fleet. The kinda fleet that makes her enemies cringe, if not shit-in-their-pants. That is power, my friend. Pure, bold, unaltered power. Simply the most significant difference between the two.

And yes, they are really alike, its just the way they achieve their goals is different. They could be really good friends, so as long as they don't bring up politics, then all hell breaks loose.

- Tak
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Old 2006-07-21, 23:45   Link #40
grandmaster192
Zechs, pilot of Tallgeese
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Thats true, Lacus does have a "big-ass-fleet", but lets not forget that OZ and the Gundam pilots suport Relena. Zechs to. If anyone trys to stop Relena they get their ass kicked. Just like with Lacus.
__________________
"There's one more thing required to attain total peace: a strong heart that can empathize with people! Like yours... You're too pure and kind, but I guess that's what gives you the right to live. I'm going to live right to the bitter end! I'll live the hard life of a warrior! 'Till we meet again, Heero!"

-Zechs "Lightning Count" Marquis
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