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Old 2006-07-23, 15:22   Link #81
cloudedge
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall
Yes, but unlike Cagali whose only achievement was to drive her country in the ground Lacus actually comes out on top of things


political experience means little, since Lacus seems to have the hang of it, while Cagali , despite her experience doesnt understand anything

Before you start discrediting Cagalli just to play up Lacus, please remember the last war in GSD was an Orb and Clyne Joint effort. So stop saying as if Cagalli never achieved anything. AA is still an Orb's ship.

And before you go on saying Cagalli doesn't understand anything... if she didn't understand than she would have just go ahead with her own way... it is precisely because she understood the reason why allying EA had its reason that she gave in her own wishes. It's clearly shown that it wasn't her idea or desire to join the alliance, but it is precisely because she understood the risk that she becomes fearful of what might happen. You can say that she lacks the courage and will to strive for what she believes in, but you can't say she doesn't understand anything!

In terms of Lacus being Chairperson, I think we're jumping the gun here, before you can become a Chairperson, you must first become a Council Member. According to SEED's official file 3, Council Members are representitive from each fo the city. Cities are divided according to their production (agriculture, medical, genetic, robotics, etc etc)... all coucil members have high acedemic background in their cities' specility in order to run their city properly. So before Lacus can even run for a Chairperson, she must first aquire a post as a council member.
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Old 2006-07-23, 15:38   Link #82
Skyfall
Lost in my dreams...
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudedge
Before you start discrediting Cagalli just to play up Lacus, please remember the last war in GSD was an Orb and Clyne Joint effort. So stop saying as if Cagalli never achieved anything. AA is still an Orb's ship.

And before you go on saying Cagalli doesn't understand anything... if she didn't understand than she would have just go ahead with her own way... it is precisely because she understood the reason why allying EA had its reason that she gave in her own wishes. It's clearly shown that it wasn't her idea or desire to join the alliance, but it is precisely because she understood the risk that she becomes fearful of what might happen. You can say that she lacks the courage and will to strive for what she believes in, but you can't say she doesn't understand anything!
Last battle is Athrun and Kira joint effor ( utter pwnage of foolish mortals who dared to get in their way ) , the rest ( including Archangel and eternal ) could stay in ORB and rot and it wouldnt change anything in the last battle. What did they achieve ? Lets list the main targets, shall we.

Legend (fragged by kira)
Destiny (fragged by Athrun)
Impulse (disabled by Athrun)
Minerva (fragged by athrun)
Messiah (fragged by Kira)
Requiem (Fragged by Athrun)

Yes, i can clearly see how irreplacable AA was here. At least Eternal brought the METEOR so IJ and SF could pwn the grunts faster and cut trough Messiahs shield


Im not playing up Lacus , i dont like her one bit. But compared to Cagali she actually achieves something positive (Building IJ and SF and getting Athrun to fight again )

Cagali has little to do with AA to begin with - she never controlled it, in the begining it was controlled by Lacus/Kira . Cagali just sat in her house and agreed to marry some guy whose intentions are to join up with Blue cosmos / EA

Im not saying she never achieved anything - she was quite succesfull at achieving chaos in her country. ( hm...i guess she did shoot down a couple of grunts in .//hackatsuki )



Remove Lacus from GSD - the world is doomed
Remove Cagali - who cares
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Old 2006-07-23, 15:51   Link #83
Obi-Wan
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall
political experience means little, since Lacus seems to have the hang of it, while Cagali , despite her experience doesnt understand anything
Cagalli seems to have gotten a clue by the end of the series when she decides to stay behind and make sure her country gets back on track rather than going to space to be a freedom fighter like the rest of her team. She was a horrible leader in the beginning but I think she has figured something out by the end.
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Old 2006-07-23, 15:52   Link #84
cloudedge
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Cagali has little to do with AA to begin with - she never controlled it, in the begining it was controlled by Lacus/Kira . Cagali just sat in her house and agreed to marry some guy whose intentions are to join up with Blue cosmos / EA

Im not saying she never achieved anything - she was quite succesfull at achieving chaos in her country. ( hm...i guess she did shoot down a couple of grunts in .//hackatsuki )



Remove Lacus from GSD - the world is doomed
Remove Cagali - who cares[/QUOTE]

And Kira and Athrun is listed under what? the Orb and Clyne alliance. So just before you put all the credit on Lacus, look at the facts. It's not just for Lacus they fight. And the two pilot do hold ranks in Orb.

Actually Lacus had LITTLE to do with what AA did in GSD. It was Kira who orchestrate the kidnap with Murrue's help. Then Cagalli's idea to stop Orb from battling with Minerva. Everyone/Kira's idea to stop Berlin's from burning down, then for Cagalli that they go and take back Orb's control. None of this was Lacus' idea.

Before you said she achieved nothing, go back and rewatch eps 1. Even Dully admit that she had rebuild Orb quickly after it had burnt down in the first war.

Actually removed Cagalli and you got eps 13 - 39 of GSD, Orb causing rukus with EA. Obviously Minerva cares!
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Old 2006-07-23, 16:15   Link #85
Teletha
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Texas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall
Last battle is Athrun and Kira joint effor ( utter pwnage of foolish mortals who dared to get in their way ) , the rest ( including Archangel and eternal ) could stay in ORB and rot and it wouldnt change anything in the last battle. What did they achieve ? Lets list the main targets, shall we.

Legend (fragged by kira)
Destiny (fragged by Athrun)
Impulse (disabled by Athrun)
Minerva (fragged by athrun)
Messiah (fragged by Kira)
Requiem (Fragged by Athrun)

Yes, i can clearly see how irreplacable AA was here. At least Eternal brought the METEOR so IJ and SF could pwn the grunts faster and cut trough Messiahs shield


Im not playing up Lacus , i dont like her one bit. But compared to Cagali she actually achieves something positive (Building IJ and SF and getting Athrun to fight again )

Cagali has little to do with AA to begin with - she never controlled it, in the begining it was controlled by Lacus/Kira . Cagali just sat in her house and agreed to marry some guy whose intentions are to join up with Blue cosmos / EA

Im not saying she never achieved anything - she was quite succesfull at achieving chaos in her country. ( hm...i guess she did shoot down a couple of grunts in .//hackatsuki )

Remove Lacus from GSD - the world is doomed
Remove Cagali - who cares
Nah Cagalli is a figure head if nothing else. If she goes, then world goes into chaos considering Orb is the leader of the world at the end of Destiny. That's why they should off her. I'd say for anything to happen in the Destiny world either Cagalli or Lacus would have to be killed. Plus crazy Kira and/or Athrun ftw! Though Lacus is protected by the Divine aura of Tanaka Rie and Fukuda~

I still think the real power behind everything is of course Lacus, but you can't discount Cagalli's contributions either. She is used very well by Lacus.
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Old 2006-07-23, 16:42   Link #86
Miles Teg
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Le Mans, France
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall
Minerva (fragged by athrun)
It's the AA who has fragged the Minerva (with a Barrel Roll and the Variant). Justice has only finish a ship who couldn't fight anymore (the only weapon left was the CIWS and the Isolde).
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Old 2006-07-23, 16:57   Link #87
Skyfall
Lost in my dreams...
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teletha
Nah Cagalli is a figure head if nothing else. If she goes, then world goes into chaos considering Orb is the leader of the world at the end of Destiny. That's why they should off her. I'd say for anything to happen in the Destiny world either Cagalli or Lacus would have to be killed. Plus crazy Kira and/or Athrun ftw! Though Lacus is protected by the Divine aura of Tanaka Rie and Fukuda~

I still think the real power behind everything is of course Lacus, but you can't discount Cagalli's contributions either. She is used very well by Lacus.
Maybe she is a figure head, but she really should have someone to make decisions for her. Yes, she is there, she has screentime and what not. But what did she actually accomplish ? Im trying really hard but cant think of anything good she did for her country or anyone else for that matter ) on political field. Ability to lead her defence force succesfully in a battle ( i gues she did handle this pretty well ) has nothing to do with political knowlidge, witch she obviousily lacks.


Quote:
Before you said she achieved nothing, go back and rewatch eps 1. Even Dully admit that she had rebuild Orb quickly after it had burnt down in the first war.
This has very little to do with politics. I really doubt her council objected to this. When she meets with a matter the council objects with she is incapable of doing anything. If you ask me she is just used to things going her way - she never had to deal with people going against her during GS, sho she is just not used to being oposed IMO. She lacks practice, she could maybe be a good politican ( what she maybe becomes in the end ) but she doesnt have the practice, Shes not prepared to lead a country at times like this, wich shows. And shee seems far to easilly silenced by Seirans. She doesnt have what it takes to lead a country in Crisis.

Quote:
And Kira and Athrun is listed under what? the Orb and Clyne alliance. So just before you put all the credit on Lacus, look at the facts. It's not just for Lacus they fight. And the two pilot do hold ranks in Orb
Does this matter at all ? I fail to see how Athrun and Kira having a rank in ORBs military adds anything to Cagalis accomplishments. What does it change ? Those titles mean nothing in battlefield, be they generals of ORB or housewifes of Lacus it doesnt chage anything. They are out there pwning the enemy, regardles how many stripes they have on their shoulder.

It doesnt matter one bit what they are listed under unless it affects their performance. Does being listed in ORBs military affect their performance in any way ? Does being Listed in Clyne faction affect it ? ORB could burn and Clyne faction could disban and they still would be there fighting for freedom and justice, not for ORB or Clyne faction.


Cagali has credit on the battlefield, but as a leader of a nation shes a complete failure.

And i think we should end this little debate since i dont see how it relates to Athruns and Kiras talk in ep 46
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Old 2006-07-23, 18:34   Link #88
Tak
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall
And i think we should end this little debate since i dont see how it relates to Athruns and Kiras talk in ep 46
No kidding, and I haven't even said anything yet...

- Tak
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