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Old 2008-08-26, 18:11   Link #261
Royal_Devil
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Originally Posted by Nervous Venus View Post
We'd be hailing back to the culture argument. It sounds good in Japanese, if you know where it's coming from (like you mentioned). However, I have to agree that BLEACH is filled with muchos x 100 cheese. People just get distracted by all the swinging swords and occasional breasts.
The thing where I seem to disagree with some here is that any form of that line in English will be corny. Reading it does not magically take out the cheese. Saying it is no more cheesy if you ask me. It would probably only not be cheesy to me if I was Japanese
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Old 2008-08-26, 18:50   Link #262
Hari Michiru
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Originally Posted by Royal_Devil View Post
Or you think they put them nicely. Shounen is generally very corny. That's the nature of the medium. I don't know why you think it's such a bad thing. Young boys like corny stuff and that's what Shounen Jump caters to. Death Note is really the only exception to this and even it had its moments.
"Just as planned."

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By this, you just mean better, not good correct?
Yeah.
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Old 2008-08-26, 19:02   Link #263
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"Just as planned."
I was thinking more along the potato chip TV thing. It took the dub for others to finally agree with me that any serious situation in ANY language should not have someone monologuing in his or her head about eating a potato chip.
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Old 2008-08-26, 19:08   Link #264
Hari Michiru
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Originally Posted by Royal_Devil View Post
I was thinking more along the potato chip TV thing. It took the dub for others to finally agree with me that any serious situation in ANY language should not have someone monologuing in his or her head about eating a potato chip.
Wow, I have hazy memory. Can't remember it...was it the time where Light was watching TV?
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Old 2008-08-26, 19:17   Link #265
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Originally Posted by Hari Michiru View Post
Wow, I have hazy memory. Can't remember it...was it the time where Light was watching TV?
Yes. Had it stuck with just writing something down under the bag it would have been fine, maybe even just mentioning how it would look like he's just making it look like he's eating a chip. But no, the anime had to get all dramatic with the potato chip eating part, music and everything.
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Old 2008-08-26, 19:22   Link #266
Hari Michiru
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Originally Posted by Royal_Devil View Post
Yes. Had it stuck with just writing something down under the bag it would have been fine, maybe even just mentioning how it would look like he's just making it look like he's eating a chip. But no, the anime had to get all dramatic with the potato chip eating part, music and everything.
Death Note overplays everything. XD
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Old 2008-08-26, 19:22   Link #267
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Death Note overplays everything. XD
That's what makes it corny like most shounen
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Old 2008-08-26, 21:32   Link #268
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I do not have a real problem with english dubbed anime...I mean ffs if the original actors can't speak english then of course they have to use other people anyway...if they do speak english and wanted to do the part in the dub there is no excuse for not allowing them...but I do not know that is the case just saying...two things I know will probably not be as good as the original for Bleach...1)Soi-fons and Yoroichi's battle and subsequent story of Soi-fons past...2)Genryuu-sensei's angry confrontation of Kyouraku Shunsui and Ukitake Jyuushiro during Ichigo's rescue of Rukia...those 2 moments will always be, for me the most intense of times in the show...to be sure there were other good intense moments, but those 2 were incredible to me. Even though the 2nd ended with no real battle whatsoever lol.
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Old 2008-08-26, 21:45   Link #269
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Well what do you know, someone who defends dubs gets negged on an anime forum

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I do not have a real problem with english dubbed anime...I mean ffs if the original actors can't speak english then of course they have to use other people anyway...if they do speak english and wanted to do the part in the dub there is no excuse for not allowing them...but I do not know that is the case just saying...two things I know will probably not be as good as the original for Bleach...1)Soi-fons and Yoroichi's battle and subsequent story of Soi-fons past...2)Genryuu-sensei's angry confrontation of Kyouraku Shunsui and Ukitake Jyuushiro during Ichigo's rescue of Rukia...those 2 moments will always be, for me the most intense of times in the show...to be sure there were other good intense moments, but those 2 were incredible to me. Even though the 2nd ended with no real battle whatsoever lol.
lol, Even if they could act in English the logistics of getting them to a recording studio in the states would be a nightmare. No system's in place yet to do it smoothly though in the redubbing of Macross they used one of the seiyuus with mixed results.

And why don't you find out about those scenes for yourself? they're on YouTube as we speak.
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Old 2008-08-26, 22:05   Link #270
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Well what do you know, someone who defends dubs gets negged on an anime forum
I swear, it wasn't me .
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Old 2008-08-26, 22:09   Link #271
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Originally Posted by Royal_Devil View Post
Well what do you know, someone who defends dubs gets negged on an anime forum
indeed, I don't mind them...when they make sense

OD, you didn't like JYB's Vash? I need to watch a episode or two of the Japanese...cause I thought he fit the role quite well.
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Old 2008-08-26, 22:27   Link #272
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I swear, it wasn't me .
I doubt you'd ever use the word "dubbie" like that so relax.

Most of your complaints Hari, just seem to be the nature of the languages. English is naturally more monotone and doesn't flow as well as the Japanese language.

Of course, when I look at my top 10 dubs only a few of them take place in Japan. Majority are either not set in Japan or just have a more Western feel to them. Let's face it, when it comes to giving appropriate accents to people of different races from around the world English definitely has a greater range at the moment than Japanese.

Makes me wonder how anime would be if more people from other races could act in Japanese well enough to get parts. Of course, there has been a rise in anime produced originally in English as well.

As far as Bleach is concerned, I'd like to see characters like Tousen and Zomarii voiced by actual African Americans (though it's too late for Tousen).

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OD, you didn't like JYB's Vash? I need to watch a episode or two of the Japanese...cause I thought he fit the role quite well.
He does fit. Mostly because the performances are actually quite similar save for the languages they're speaking. Though I watch it mostly because I much prefer Legato's English voice and he's my favorite character.
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Old 2008-08-26, 23:28   Link #273
Hari Michiru
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Originally Posted by Royal_Devil View Post
I doubt you'd ever use the word "dubbie" like that so relax.

Most of your complaints Hari, just seem to be the nature of the languages. English is naturally more monotone and doesn't flow as well as the Japanese language.

Of course, when I look at my top 10 dubs only a few of them take place in Japan. Majority are either not set in Japan or just have a more Western feel to them. Let's face it, when it comes to giving appropriate accents to people of different races from around the world English definitely has a greater range at the moment than Japanese.

LOLWTF, dubbie? That's...unheard of...

That's why I like to think that the Japanese songwriters have a 'hack'. The Asian languages are generally more poetic and stuff, while English is meh.

That's why I like the Code Geass (set in an 'English speaking' world) over Bleach (Japan).
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Old 2008-08-27, 14:42   Link #274
Mitsuomi1971
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Lmao...Japanese is more poetic? Listen...great poetry comes from all languages...erm uh Shakespeare comes to mind, or maybe Tennyson, or Joyce...on and on...what is poetic to one is mish mash to another...as far as watching those eps on youtube in english I am confounded as to how they exist in english since they have not been released in english yet afaik, I have all NTSC region 1 discs released for Bleach and it is not up to that part yet. I think it is a matter of what one likes...I enjoy the original language of Bleach...however the dub actors do try hard and sound decent to me...also I do not see censorship at all...in fact when I compare a DB ep with a Cartoon Network english ep the CN episode is just as tough, I realize censorship used to happen but not anymore on CN asfaik...I think the lesson was learned from DBZ...but to each their own...I like both versions, but must admit that I prefer the Japanese version.
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Old 2008-08-27, 16:10   Link #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hari Michiru View Post
LOLWTF, dubbie? That's...unheard of...

That's why I like to think that the Japanese songwriters have a 'hack'. The Asian languages are generally more poetic and stuff, while English is meh.

That's why I like the Code Geass (set in an 'English speaking' world) over Bleach (Japan).
I think you should just drop this entire subject. Seriously its getting out of hand.. or rather.. annoying.
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Old 2008-08-27, 17:01   Link #276
Royal_Devil
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as far as watching those eps on youtube in english I am confounded as to how they exist in english since they have not been released in english yet afaik, I have all NTSC region 1 discs released for Bleach and it is not up to that part yet.
Bleach has been airing on Adult Swim. They're on the Bount arc now. That's where YouTube gets it from. DVD releases are generally behind the TV airing
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Old 2008-08-27, 17:11   Link #277
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I think you should just drop this entire subject. Seriously its getting out of hand.. or rather.. annoying.
There's always the ignore button. It's rather annoying to have people complain about other posters when they could just do something as simple as this without the useless post to take up space.

Anyway, I'm with Mitsuomi on this one. The Bleach dubs aren't so bad, but personal preferences affect my decision and I prefer the original voices.
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Old 2008-08-27, 17:12   Link #278
Mitsuomi1971
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^^ Thanks I have not seen any new eps here on CN fo a few weeks must be airing when I am sleeping lol

and I don't do youtube thanks though....although I did do a quick search a couple times with google and youtubes search engine and only found the subbed versions...but I appreciate the knowledge about Cartoon Network airing those eps...the last I saw they were on ep 52 I believe...
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Old 2008-08-27, 18:12   Link #279
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Originally Posted by Royal_Devil View Post
Makes me wonder how anime would be if more people from other races could act in Japanese well enough to get parts. Of course, there has been a rise in anime produced originally in English as well.

As far as Bleach is concerned, I'd like to see characters like Tousen and Zomarii voiced by actual African Americans (though it's too late for Tousen).



.
I would use dubbie but I didn't do it...

I would hear love them voiced by African Americans too. The english VA for Tousen just sucks! I hate the way he just says his lines..no feeling whatsoever!

Toshiyuki Morikawa does it well and he does sound black.
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Originally Posted by Royal_Devil View Post
The sounding corny excuse has always seemed a case of finally realizing how odd it is for anyone to say such a thing. And Bleach is filled with cheese and corn in the manga alone.



Gai is one of those cases where you now understand everything and what it must be like for a Japanese person watching him. Because the performances are virtually identical, you just understand English better and can pick it apart while remaining blissfully ignorant as to how you'd probably get the same reaction if you understood Japanese.

The best example of this is Excel Saga, where you can now understand just how annoying she is supposed to be to the viewer.



I take it you've never seen Black Lagoon, Hellsing, or Desert Punk then? Hell, even Berserk but the Japanese version sucked in the first place with that. And in the case of the first two listed, I don't see how anyone can say the Japanese actors sound more natural when people of the characters' ethnicity or country of origin are the ones dubbing them (with the exception of Rock in BL)
Devil didn't I say I dl everything Daisuke Namikawa ever done?


I watched BL when it was first released. Desert Punk I am on the 3rd episode. I just decided to watch since I have it. I loved both Rock and Revy. Revy was supposed to speak with a Chinese, NY, American accent.(She is actually supposed to be speaking in english the whole time) Balalaika uses english as well. Actually the whole cast is supposed to be speaking it. I love that anime. I especially loved it because I believe Daisuke Namikawa is wonderful actor. I loved the way he played Rock.
He and fellow seiyuu Megumi Toyoguchi (Revy) have a great chemistry. It's probably they are often cast opposite of each other.

It's not just the "sound" of a actor that makes it for me. I judge seiyuu/VA on their acting abilities. The VA may have a feel for the character, however it doesn't change the fact he is a lousy actor. He is and Gai-Sensei is terribly done.
It does sound corny even if it's a corny name in Japanese. It still sounds cooler. I've made fun of plenty of names for special moves. My thing is the actors are not as good in English dubs. Most are terrible at because being a VA is the bottom of the barrel. It's not a respected craft where I am from. Unless it's a big production like Disney or Pixar. Japanese people respect VA's . So there are many seiyuu's who are awesome to chose from. Unlike in English dubs. We just get the "Best of" the shittiest actors and actresses.

So again. English dubs sound corny. The actors are horrible. They can't even manage to sound different when playing different roles. their pronunciation is horrible and they make the anime seem campy when it's really some heavy shit.
The excitement, emotion and intensity I feel when I am watching subs, is lost on cutting room floor of dubs.

Please don't assume I just mean "sound". I do not; I am also including acting abilities. JYB..has none imo. He does not do justice to Ichigo's character. He isn't arrogant enough. Example episodes 57-58. JYB was such a hash! He wasn't a cocky braggart at all, more like stupefied amazement.Ichigo's natural arrogance doesn't come across very well. The fangirl in me is horrified by it.

Ichigo's Seiyuu has Ichigo's character down pat. (He reads the manga ) If he was changed I wouldn't like it. If the other seiyuu doesn't capture Ichigo. I will talk about his ass too! If he could act the part without changing Ichigo's character I wouldn't mind it. If JYB could put the bad ass in to Ichigo, I wouldn't have a problem with him.

The way he said "This stand is gonna tumble down..." ...Tumble down...? does that sound bad assed to you?

I just can't get with English dubs. The acting in subs is much better.


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Well what do you know, someone who defends dubs gets negged on an anime forum


.
Are you serious? Who ever did that is stupid. I only gave three red reps ever. Two of em I used to flame the people that flamed me and was not at this forum. One for filler police-san because the bastard always does it to me. I can't give you rep bad or good because I gave you cookie for image not to long ago...

It wasn't me; I hope you know that. I like you and have no reason to do that. I wouldn't for something like this.

Devil is entitled to devil's own opinion! Please people cookie devil to make up for neg rep


EDITFLASHBACK...UH...I think I might have by accident. I was handing out rep and my mother interrupted me in the middle of it and I got up and my son Kaelin clicked on the button. You were the person I gave red-rep to by accident. I remember having a fit and my mother couldn't understand why I so mad she did grab him before he picked up the mouse. ....I didn't get to sign it either. "Dubbie" made remember because I do use it all the time. I swear to god it was an accident! Please copy and paste it and I will tell you if it was me...

It's coming back to me because I did use dubbie. I was letting you know it's all good and I got up and he clicked on disagree and he hit the mouse before I could change it. I swear to god I didn't mean it. I wouldn't do because we differ in opinion. Please believe me...

I just told Hana-san I've done that before...I swear to god I didn't mean it. I wouldn't do that.

Last edited by BleachOD; 2008-08-27 at 18:44.
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Old 2008-08-27, 18:46   Link #280
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Toshiyuki Morikawa does it well and he does sound black.
You must know some funny black people because he doesn't sound a thing like any of the ones I've heard speaking.

Quote:
I watched BL when it was first released. Desert Punk I am on the 3rd episode. I just decided to watch since I have it. I loved both Rock and Revy. Revy was supposed to speak with a Chinese, NY, American accent.(She is actually supposed to be speaking in english the whole time) Balalaika uses english as well. Actually the whole cast is supposed to be speaking it. I love that anime. I especially loved it because I believe Daisuke Namikawa is wonderful actor. I loved the way he played Rock.
He and fellow seiyuu Megumi Toyoguchi (Revy) have a great chemistry. It's probably they are often cast opposite of each other.
Their English actors are awesome too and have the added bonus of accents and such that fit their characters, ie Dutch is voiced by an actual black man and is actually acted pretty well.

As Desert Punk actually has a superior dub script. The Japanese version is toned down in comparison to the English script. Yes, Funi took liberties in the translation but it works here because DP is a show that needs bite to it's dialog. It needs someone calling a guy's mother a dirty whore instead of saying she has an outty. Then again, I find comedies generally do better in English since they sound absurd anyway.

Now if you ever get to Hellsing keep in mind the Japanese staff has HEAVY involvement in the dubbing of it. The director and members of the cast have meat with Hirano on many occasions to discuss the localization.

And you still haven't told me what makes Bebop the big exception.

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Japanese people respect VA's . So there are many seiyuu's who are awesome to chose from. Unlike in English dubs. We just get the "Best of" the shittiest actors and actresses.
Like I said, voice acting is no more respected there in the big picture than it is here. Only people in the industry and otakus give a damn about seiyuus. The general public see them as nothing more than cartoon voice actors. Only those from classic series have the level of respect you describe, and when I say classic I mean decades old.

Not even Miyazaki respects them, always preferring to use actual Japanese celebrities instead of ones always in the animation industry.

Quote:
They can't even manage to sound different when playing different roles. their pronunciation is horrible and they make the anime seem campy when it's really some heavy shit.
Would you believe Yuzu and Rukia share the same voice actress? Same with Ganju and Aizen. Liam's doing three roles. Orihime's VA was also Mamimi in FLCL. Going to Ocean Group (and Inuyasha), Scott McNeil successfully voiced four different characters in Beast Wars.

Hell, in Blood+ Saya and Diva had different seiyuus while the same dub actress was used for both and pulled off two distinct voices. Steve Blum: he's Spike, he's Guilmon, he Leeron, he's Orochimaru, he's Zabuza. Of course, seiyuu rarely have to deal with playing multiple roles in one show. But if you don't recognize the voice coming from one character then you've most likely not realized that character's sharing a VA with another.

On top of that, sounding the same has never bothered me as long as they do it well. Keith David always sounds the same. James Earl Jones always sounds the same. Morgan Freeman always sounds the same. Same for most stuff from Disney despite all the praise you've given them. Yet no seiyuu can even touch them if you ask me. So lack of range should not be a problem.

And unless you have a problem with Engrish, please avoid the pronunciation thing when addressing me (Engrish is was killed any hope of me liking BL in Japanese. Besides, they say the F word more in English)

Quote:
Please don't assume I just mean "sound". I do not; I am also including acting abilities. JYB..has none imo.
Never played Devil May Cry 4 I see. Or watched Heat Guy J, which is my favorite performance from him.

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The acting in subs is much better.
No it's not. Of course, by now I'm wondering if your bias will make you prefer non-Japanese cartoons when they're in Japanese for some strange reason.

And quite bringing up Disney and Pixar please. The actors there even have the advantage of have traits of the character modeled after them on top of the animation being done after they're done recording.

ED: Of course, this is why the manga is better than the anime. You can insert any voice you choose. Me, I've always attached Justin Cook's (Yusuke Urameshi) voice to Ichigo.

And just to be fair, why not inform us of any seiyuu performances (maybe from Bleach) you actually don't like. Otherwise, I'll have to call blind bias.
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