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Old 2007-07-07, 09:21   Link #281
iamandragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverGone View Post
1. mlai said Saber win in HG and went back to Middle Ages. Saber said she had a dream. Actually she know it was a REAL dream since the dream taught her many things and finally make up her mind to throw her Weapon. Am i right?
Yes...I think...

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2. According to the story of her legend told by Thosaka in ep 16, time: 18.42, Thosaka said the king died because of her Excalibur's sheath was stolen. But how come the sheath was in Shiro's body? Is it Shiro's father taken it from Saber after the HG War to save Shiro's life? Is it how the legend come from?
First, you'll have to distinguish between history and anime. In the legend of King Arthur, his sheath was stolen by her enemy, and in the fight he suffered a fatal injury which led to his downfall.
Now here comes the anime part: it says that Saber as a human regretted her life, and wanted to do it over again. And thus she made a pact with the HG--in which she'd become a servant if she obtain the HG. Then she became a half servant and fought in the 3rd and 4th HG war(let's ignore the 5th...).
The sheath was in Shirou's body because Kiritsugu used it to summon Saber in the 3rd HG war. And in the final fight Saber's excalibur destroyed Shirou's hometown. Desperate to save someone, Kiritsugu found Shirou in the fire. But as a child who has been in the fire for so long, there is no other way to save Shirou but to insert Saber's sheath(a.k.a. Avalon) into him, as it allows the bearer to become immortal. And after the 3rd HG war Saber left--there's no point in wasting the effort to pull the sheath out as Avalon needs to be in contact (directly or indirectly)with Saber to be in effective.

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3. Why Saber keep her weapon in invisible status since the start of the story? If not mistake in guess, Saber really had that weapon before in Middle Ages, just because of she decided to throw away her weapon and then she's died, that's why she having an unvisible weapon when she is a servant. Am i corrent?
Unfortunately, no. Saber hid her sword because Excalibur is just too famous that it'd reveal her identity immediately. Note that Saber's not really that strong. It's just that the other servants are weak in this HG(apart from Gil, maybe) Read Fate/Zero to find out how weak the other servants actually are...

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4. The 2nd Excalibur forged by materialization was a very powerful weapon since created by Shiro. Saber used it untill the end of the episode of FSN. In this case, Thosaka can't believe the 2nd Excalibur is NOTHING BROKEN untill the end of fight with Berserker. This mean Shiro BRING BACK( or SUMMON) the REAL Excalibur by suing materialization? Or mean the REAL Excalibur and the sheath is in Shiro's body since he was saved by his adopted father?
You really are not paying attention are you? It is not the 2nd Excalibur, but Calibur, it's even there in the title! Shirou can't bring back swords, swords are not dead people. It's just that Shirou's magic is 'swords'. As long as it is sword related, Shirou can do anything with them. (Create, reinforce, etc.)
Only the real sheath is in Shirou's body.
Oh, and it's not materialization, it's tracing, or projection to be more accurate. Shirou already has those swords in his body(mind), all he is doing is project those images he have in his mind to give those images a solid form.

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5. In episode 13, time: 08.04, a man told Arturia(saber): "think carefully before you take hold of that sword, after you take that sword you wont be HUMAN anymore." What i want to know is what she will be. ( Don't tell me she will be a GOD or Servant before and after she's death. XD)
Well for Saber's case, she consider a king as a separate species from humans. And a king will have to be lonely in order to rule. This is explained in Fate/Zero vol.2, and Rider in the 3rd HG war opposed.

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6. In Episode 13, time: 09.16. Shiro tell himself it was a different Excalibur sword from the 1 he saw last night(the 1st time he saw the Excalibur form) when fight with Rider(He is looking Saber's past). WHY do he say so?
Because it's Caliburn. Caliburn and Excalibur are different swords...or at least in this version...

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7. Same episode(13), time: 08.20 and 09.43. the screen shows a grave. Is that Saber's grave? And there was a weapon stand on the grave(except stand world i don't have other word to replace with it, just some kind like RIP stele) Is that mean Bedivere never throw away the Excalibur ordered by Saber before she die? For my opision, Shiro saw the weapon which is still exist in 21 century. Am i right?
Maybe it still exists, maybe it doesn't. But if you do see it, make sure you tell us, or at least split the money you gain from selling it to any museum.

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8. Lastly, since Shiro save by his adopted fater, why Shiro sometimes saw the Excalibur suddenly and why he can't see clearly the structure of the weapon?
...Don't remember this part...but I believe that you can't remember clearly exactly how your pen looks like ten years ago, can you?
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Old 2007-07-07, 11:15   Link #282
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Quote:
First, you'll have to distinguish between history and anime. In the legend of King Arthur, his sheath was stolen by her enemy, and in the fight he suffered a fatal injury which led to his downfall.

Now here comes the anime part: it says that Saber as a human regretted her life, and wanted to do it over again. And thus she made a pact with the HG--in which she'd become a servant if she obtain the HG. Then she became a half servant and fought in the 3rd and 4th HG war(let's ignore the 5th...).
The sheath was in Shirou's body because Kiritsugu used it to summon Saber in the 3rd HG war. And in the final fight Saber's excalibur destroyed Shirou's hometown. Desperate to save someone, Kiritsugu found Shirou in the fire. But as a child who has been in the fire for so long, there is no other way to save Shirou but to insert Saber's sheath(a.k.a. Avalon) into him, as it allows the bearer to become immortal. And after the 3rd HG war Saber left--there's no point in wasting the effort to pull the sheath out as Avalon needs to be in contact (directly or indirectly)with Saber to be in effective.
Now i know the story of King Arthur. Let's talk about Saber. As you said, she regretted her life, and she's become a servant if she obtained HG. The point is, what does SERVANT mean in this anime. Why she want to become a servant(to fulfil her obligation?)(Before this i must have to know what SERVANT mean in this HG)

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Unfortunately, no. Saber hid her sword because Excalibur is just too famous that it'd reveal her identity immediately. Note that Saber's not really that strong. It's just that the other servants are weak in this HG(apart from Gil, maybe) Read Fate/Zero to find out how weak the other servants actually are...
This turn is you make the words invisible, haha. ^^" About Fate/Zero, i have to ask you privately.

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You really are not paying attention are you? It is not the 2nd Excalibur, but Calibur, it's even there in the title! Shirou can't bring back swords, swords are not dead people. It's just that Shirou's magic is 'swords'. As long as it is sword related, Shirou can do anything with them. (Create, reinforce, etc.)
Only the real sheath is in Shirou's body.
Oh, and it's not materialization, it's tracing, or projection to be more accurate. Shirou already has those swords in his body(mind), all he is doing is project those images he have in his mind to give those images a solid form.
I have payed attention in watching the English words present below the screen. At that moment i just get confused when heard Sbare said it was Carlibur once only when defeated Berserker. But poeples say it as Excalibur.


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...Don't remember this part...but I believe that you can't remember clearly exactly how your pen looks like ten years ago, can you?
Ok, this time im gonna say that the weapon that shiro always saw in dream or suddently is called Calibur since i know that weapon forge by Shiro by materialization and get know the actual name of that weapon when defeated Berserker ^^. But here's something i felt strange. Shiro never saw the Calibur before, and can't see clearly, why this could happen?

Thanks to telling me others information, Im appreciate.
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Old 2007-07-07, 18:34   Link #283
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Servants...a name for heroic spirits, or counter guardian summoned to fight in the HG war. They are heroic spirits in the past, present or even future.
The HG war is one part of the ritual of the ture magic "Heaven's Feel" the making of a high-dimensional (planar) being that can cause interference in the material world on its own while being a mental body.
The turning of a soul into a living being to bring it onto the next step as a life form. Resurrection of the soul. A soul materialized by the HG can and will reshape itself into the "form of the soul" completely if put in a vessel with similar enough properties as a human being based on the "genes from the soul". According to Rin, the "organic" soul itself is moving the body by remote-control. Of course, putting that soul back into the body, while getting the benefits of reenacting the soul through the body, means it's also going to be anchored into it. Meaning that you know who will get sick, bleed, age, and die like a normal human being.

Servant summoning uses imperfect pieces of Heaven's Feel. Giving form to a soul. The ideal goal is to make the physical body unnecessary to living. A living ghost. The Einzbern Dress of Heaven does enable materialization of the soul independent of the Greater Grail, but only for several seconds, and is used for transmission of a soul into another object.

Shirou did saw Caliburn before, in his dreams. He doesn't need a clear sight of a weapon to trace it, all he need to know is 'what's this sword about?'. Or, more importantly, the concept behind the weapon. The form of a weapon is unimportant. (e.g. for all Shirou can care, he can trace Excalibur in the shape of a gun and fire Excalibur beam at you with it--as long as it carrys the concept of that sword...)

To fill you more in on concept weapons...Concept Weapons are made so as not to be limited to just physical interference, but also have effects that extend on to meaning/natural laws/space.
Along the lines of, for example, writing over "unaging" with the idea of "natural life" (as in the time of allowed existence that is given to a person by heaven) to nullify that condition. Soul smashers (Outbreaker) that defeat the target not by pure physical impact but by the strength of the concept, in other words, the soul.

Some of the other Noble Phantasms may or may not fit into this category.

Many thanks for fuyuki - Winter cleaning for the information
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Old 2007-07-07, 23:34   Link #284
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Many thanks for fuyuki - Winter cleaning for the information
May i ask you those information is it from novel of Fate Zero?

Ohya, i almost forget something. What does they mean Season 1,2,3.....and what mean by Vol 1,2,3.....?

Last edited by NeverGone; 2007-07-07 at 23:37. Reason: Forget put information
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Old 2007-07-08, 07:37   Link #285
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Erm..book 1, 2 and 3 I suppose?
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Old 2007-07-09, 04:26   Link #286
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Erm..book 1, 2 and 3 I suppose?
Maybe, Im not so sure...^^"

Ohya, Im almost forget 1 thing to ask because i just watch Fate Stay Night only. After the sheath of Caliburn is taken out from Shirou's body, where it gone? And after they won the guild war, does the sheath still with Shirou?(Possible?) Or Saber BRING it back to Middle Age?(I think this wont be possible.)
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Old 2007-07-09, 05:56   Link #287
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The sheath of Excalibur, Caliburn is the one that they destroyed Berserker with. It's a fake one, so it disappeared very soon. And the sheath is called Avalon.
Where's it gone? Avalon is a concept weapon, so it doesn't have to be within sight all the time. As long as Saber is in contact with it it'll come in action and heal the bearer. (Note that it'll also heal the bearer slowly even if Saber's not in contact with it, though a lot slower)
Just to fill you in a bit: The effects of Avalon are:
1) It shunts the bearer from any physical interference. (Note: Shunt, not block, defend, reflect, etc. Shuts out, absolutely shuts out, so no 'barrier block' or anything like that)
2) It heals the bearer from any injuries (if the bearer cannot be hurt, why healing is needed? Though it really did come in useful many times...)
3) It keeps the bearer from aging. (Most useful function I have to say)

And it's the HG war, not Guild War!

Avalon still remains in the world as a useless piece of scrap metal until Saber is to be summoned again. Saber bought the 'concept' of Avalon(sheath) back to middle ages, that's how she went to Avalon(the place) after her death, just like in the legend.

EDIT: Note that the spirit's dimension, where Excalibur's from, is also called Avalon. Please don't get confused.

Last edited by iamandragon; 2007-07-09 at 08:51.
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Old 2007-07-11, 03:59   Link #288
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Avalon still remains in the world as a useless piece of scrap metal until Saber is to be summoned again. Saber bought the 'concept' of Avalon(sheath) back to middle ages, that's how she went to Avalon(the place) after her death, just like in the legend.
Don't you think that the Avalon still running its funtion like healing function still activating in bearer even Saber is not summoned.
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Old 2007-07-11, 05:26   Link #289
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Nope. If it is still activating all the time then we're gonna have a Shouta Shirou in the story, since he got Avalon inserted(sry for the yaoi, but I just love it) into him by Kiritsugu when he is young.

As for keeping people from injuries, if it's activated, then Berserker won't be able to slice him in half in the first place.

And for healing, it's demonstrated most significantly in Fate/Zero, where Kiritsugu's wife who bears Avalon does not heal when injured by Kotomi until Saber actually touches her.
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Old 2007-07-12, 10:59   Link #290
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Must be cool to see Saber as a male protecting Shirou.
"Shirou, by my sword I swear to protect you."
LOL, then this would be the rooftop Bellerophon scene.

"EXU... CALIBAAAAAAAA~!!!!"
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Old 2007-07-12, 14:12   Link #291
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Originally Posted by kamikazex View Post
yup saber isnt some alternative old faggy guy sabers just saber
If Saber was male... wow that would change quite a bit of stuff. Assuming Shirou isn't gay, the mana recharge scene would be... quite interesting. Especially in the context of the anime. And I wonder how Gilgie would react...
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Originally Posted by iamandragon View Post
The sheath was in Shirou's body because Kiritsugu used it to summon Saber in the 3rd HG war.
I thought it was the 4th HGW? Was Saber summoned in the 3rd HGW as well? Any resources on that? I haven't read as far back as 3HGW...
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Old 2007-07-12, 14:34   Link #292
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I just finished watching the anime, and to tell you the truth, it's one of the best anime I ever seen. I wasn't even aware that the anime was based on a game so I'm going to check that out.

The story appealed to me a lot - how Emiya's and Saber's past unveil as they progress, this made me curious throughout the series and watch until the very end to see the concludsion. Too bad the romance between Shirou and Saber had to end this way though, I was hoping for a sequel.

I thought some portions of the story were enigmatic; the characters didn't explain much about situations, and some parts they just bullshitted their way through (or maybe it's my fault for not understanding :P).

IMO, the characters, especially the Servants, were only put there to serve as obstacles. Well, I guess you just can't have a background to every single character.

The animations and especially the action scenes need more work. It seemed like whoever had the stronger Noble Phantasm won every battle.

Well, every anime has their values and flaws. Overall, I really enjoyed watching this.
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Old 2007-07-12, 17:10   Link #293
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Originally Posted by kureshii View Post
If Saber was male... wow that would change quite a bit of stuff. Assuming Shirou isn't gay, the mana recharge scene would be... quite interesting. Especially in the context of the anime. And I wonder how Gilgie would react...

I thought it was the 4th HGW? Was Saber summoned in the 3rd HGW as well? Any resources on that? I haven't read as far back as 3HGW...
Ouch--that's why I failed maths. Thanks for the correction...
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Old 2007-07-12, 18:24   Link #294
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Ahh, no problem =)

The only thing I know about the 3HGW is that Avenger corrupted the HG. Anything else of importance happened? Who were the 7 magi and their Servants in that 'war'?
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Old 2007-07-13, 05:19   Link #295
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There are 8 magi in the 3rd HG war. The master of the Saber class servant are a pair of twin and they each control a light and dark side of it.
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Old 2007-07-14, 15:56   Link #296
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the twin sisters in the 3rd Holy Grail war were the Edelfelt sisters. They summon a couple of Saber class servants, That and the 2nd servant summoned from the war, a small version of an Assassin was both seen in Bazetts fights from Fate/Hollow Ataraxia.

Edefelt sisters turn on each other in the war which resulted in the younger twin possibly dying. Both sisters didnt get along well with Tohaska.

so basically 2 servants, an assisin and no Berserker that is known from the war.
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Old 2007-07-14, 16:15   Link #297
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But there's also Avanger, so you'll have to count that in.
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Old 2007-07-16, 17:39   Link #298
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Originally Posted by iamandragon View Post
But there's also Avanger, so you'll have to count that in.


Avenger doesnt fight in the war, he is just part of the grail. Nothing was mentioned of him taking part in the Servant/Master pairing.

the names given were the ones known to participate in helping their masters in the war. Avenger wasnt part of that kind of label until again in HA. It i not right to include him, he wasnt included in 4th and 5th grail wars either.
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Old 2007-07-16, 18:03   Link #299
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Originally Posted by X_Danny_X View Post
Avenger doesnt fight in the war, he is just part of the grail. Nothing was mentioned of him taking part in the Servant/Master pairing.

the names given were the ones known to participate in helping their masters in the war. Avenger wasnt part of that kind of label until again in HA. It i not right to include him, he wasnt included in 4th and 5th grail wars either.
Avenger did take part in the Grail War. He just got kill on the 3rd day and screw everyone over by tainting the Grail.
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Old 2007-07-17, 17:15   Link #300
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The thing is Avenger wasn't a proper servant, if you could call him a servant at all in the 3rd Holy Grail war. His summoning was screwed up, he had no personality, no features, no Noble Phantasms, shitty stats, etc.

The Grail let him because it was the weight of a soul anyway, that was basically all he was worth.
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