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Old 2010-05-25, 19:12   Link #741
GDB
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I was actually just using random letters, not a standard grade rank.
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Old 2010-05-26, 12:25   Link #742
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Would you all kindly not start a debate here? I think there are different threads for this sort of thing for a purpose.

This is final thoughts & Overall impressions. This is a thread that facilitates a person's thought or opinion on the anime, not who was a better master.
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Old 2010-05-27, 01:42   Link #743
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Just because B is better than C doesn't mean C is shit, though. It just means that B is better than C. In this case, C is being compared to E and F, which are both terrible Masters.
Okay... maybe I worded it out a bit heavily, which I apologize but you get the point.

Quote:
Except that that's not true. In Fate, Rider manages to use Pegasus, twice, once to get Shinji out of the school, and once on the rooftop. Plus, Rider still has higher agility than Saber, even with Saber under Rin. There's no reason to assume that Saber could have defeated Rider in that fight if it had been Rin's Saber rather than Dark Saber. The only time Saber's lowered agility did cause her to lose was in the Sparks Liner High bad end, where Shirou takes her down on his own.
Spoiler:


But your right, let's not debate about it.

Carry on people.
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Last edited by Blade_Lord; 2010-05-27 at 17:56.
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Old 2010-05-27, 07:43   Link #744
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Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
Spoiler for UBW:
I'm not sure what you mean by that....

Also, I put my comment under a spoiler tag for a reason, so you should probably spoiler tag the quoted text too....
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Old 2010-05-27, 12:52   Link #745
kitten320
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Alright I'm finally done with anime and I started to look thorugh Heven's Feel route, started day 11 already though I did skip through a lot previouse days there... anyway here are my thoughts, mostly anime based. Also I'm kinda on emotions right now since I had read some comments which are game based so my next words might sound rough, forgive me for that but right now I can't hold back and really want to let it out.

The show had a really interesting story it got me hooked up knowing that all kind of heroes are fighting each other. It also has a lot of great and interesting characters as well as action. I was planning to give series 8 at first but... despite all those pluses it still has BUNCH of minuses which I can't over look.

Firstly how a lot of characters were simply ignored and thrown away... so many cool characters yet we barely got any background story on them at all! I will start with my favorite character Rider. Her character was not explored properly (actually you could say she was unexplored at all but at least she got better treatment then some others) but what angered was the fact that it was never stated who she really is aka Medusa. If I don't mistake she was the only servant whose indentity was not revealed in anime. And another thing that annoyed me the most concerning her is the fact that she never tried to use her unique powers that no one has aka her EYES! She is the only servant who bears extra powers in comparison to others yet she never even bothered to use them! That's just lame! She could have taken Saber down if she had looked into her eyes just once! And she had those opportunities.

Another completly undeveloped character was Lancer who barely had appeared and said anything and then simply got killed off like nothing. He probably had received the worst treatment.

Then goes Caster about whom we mostly can only guess, her master, Ilya... I still don't get why such girl as her had Barseker. It is clear that her life wasn't happy and all but I want details!

Another thing that really was bothering me through the whole show was... WHY THE HECK SABER IS A WOMAN?! She was King Arthur! If creators wanted to slightly change the story shouldn't they have re-named her then? Arthur definetly is not females name but ok... I can bear with that but... In one of her flashbacks she clearly was addresed as FATHER! That's just random! This is definetly one of the reasons why couldn't get into whole Saber/Shirou romance thingy, I actually wished or it to be over already... If creators wanted to have main character romance so much then they could have done yaoi at lest -_-
Or even better made Shirou to be a girl instead... or make Saber represent different hero.

I seriously can keep going. I also heard that Archer is Shirou in the future what also was never mentioned but I guess with anime story it wasn't such an important information... but can someone explain to me why Archer is dark skinned then?

Also I didn't get what Saber did in the end to make her defeat Gil. Also did Shirou's and Saber's wishes got granted in the end? Because I was sure that Rin had died especiall when she already had lost so much blood and Shirou and Saber left her that way when going to the temple. There is no way she could survive.


So yeh I'm displeased with anime... though Saber's gender thingy applies to game too unless an explenation was given somehwere. Actually I'm suprised that no one in whole series even bothered to ask why she is a girl.

And another small complain is that I find this war unfair... making so called second handed heroes fighting legends such as King Arthur with super Excalibur is unfair. All other servants simply had no chance from the begining, only Berseker was able to actually give some proper fight. And I'm sure that in the war 10 years ago it was same thing where it was Sabre who was able to stand her ground againts Gil.
They should have made it one war for weaker heroes and another for power monsters. Would be much more fair and interesting.

Anime team should have done more seasons or at least one more with alternative story. I don't know about other game routes but I definetly would like to see Heavens feel route animated. Yes one of the reasons is because I will get more Rider development but another is that I find idea of the dark Saber and Sakura FAR more interesting and I don't really like those characters.

Well I guess I'll end my rant here.

Because of all those anime flows and Saber's strange gender choice I will give series 7, sorry.
And I feel better now^^
Hope my post didn't anger anyone.
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Old 2010-05-27, 13:41   Link #746
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Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
Then goes Caster about whom we mostly can only guess, her master, Ilya... I still don't get why such girl as her had Barseker. It is clear that her life wasn't happy and all but I want details!
Not sure if you're saying Ilya was Caster's Master or if you kind of just trailed from one thought to another, but just in case: Ilya was no one's master but Berserker's.

Quote:
Another thing that really was bothering me through the whole show was... WHY THE HECK SABER IS A WOMAN?! She was King Arthur! If creators wanted to slightly change the story shouldn't they have re-named her then? Arthur definetly is not females name but ok... I can bear with that but... In one of her flashbacks she clearly was addresed as FATHER! That's just random!
She wasn't named Arthur. Her name was Arturia. However, since a woman wouldn't be a leader back in those days, she pretended to be male. That's why the legend remains the same despite the change in "actuality."

Quote:
I seriously can keep going. I also heard that Archer is Shirou in the future what also was never mentioned but I guess with anime story it wasn't such an important information... but can someone explain to me why Archer is dark skinned then?
Anime alludes to it, though poorly. They show Archer had Rin's pendant when he died, which Shirou had kept. Plus there's that whole projection/tracing thing.

Quote:
Also I didn't get what Saber did in the end to make her defeat Gil. Also did Shirou's and Saber's wishes got granted in the end? Because I was sure that Rin had died especiall when she already had lost so much blood and Shirou and Saber left her that way when going to the temple. There is no way she could survive.
Saber was protected by Avalon, so she channeled all of her power into an Excalibur blast, if I recall. And their wishes weren't granted. They merely destroyed the grail.

Quote:
Anime team should have done more seasons or at least one more with alternative story. I don't know about other game routes but I definetly would like to see Heavens feel route animated.
Movie is Unlimited Blade Works, which is the second route.
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Old 2010-05-27, 13:49   Link #747
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Not sure if you're saying Ilya was Caster's Master or if you kind of just trailed from one thought to another, but just in case: Ilya was no one's master but Berserker's.
Yeh I just went on.

Quote:
She wasn't named Arthur. Her name was Arturia. However, since a woman wouldn't be a leader back in those days, she pretended to be male. That's why the legend remains the same despite the change in "actuality."
But wasn't she called father? How could she be a father? Unless one part of her body was...

Quote:
Anime alludes to it, though poorly. They show Archer had Rin's pendant when he died, which Shirou had kept. Plus there's that whole projection/tracing thing.
Ah yeh, but still doesn't explain the difference in skin colour.
Also second OP sure gave wrong impression about what is coming...

Quote:
Saber was protected by Avalon, so she channeled all of her power into an Excalibur blast, if I recall. And their wishes weren't granted. They merely destroyed the grail.
Then why Rin is alive? There is no possible way she could survive all the blood lose. That simply makes no sence and kinda ruined the whole impact.

Quote:
Movie is Unlimited Blade Works, which is the second route.
There is a movie? Is it out? Where can I find it? Do they plan to do any more? Because I really would like to see Heaven's feel route with dark Saber, Sakura and more Rider.
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Old 2010-05-27, 13:59   Link #748
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But wasn't she called father? How could she be a father? Unless one part of her body was...
They explain it in the game, but it's convoluted. Easiest to just say "A witch did it." (Or wizard, forget which.)

Quote:
Then why Rin is alive? There is no possible way she could survive all the blood lose. That simply makes no sence and kinda ruined the whole impact.
She's a great mage, she healed herself.

Quote:
There is a movie? Is it out? Where can I find it? Do they plan to do any more? Because I really would like to see Heaven's feel route with dark Saber, Sakura and more Rider.
It's not out on DVD yet, and there aren't any known plans to do more yet.
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Old 2010-05-27, 14:24   Link #749
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
They explain it in the game, but it's convoluted. Easiest to just say "A witch did it." (Or wizard, forget which.)
So basicly some witch made Saber's wife pregnant? And child didn't knwo about Saber's gender? And wife?

Quote:
She's a great mage, she healed herself.
She was always suprised by how Shirou is healing so fast and she had lost conciouse to begin with. She would be dead by the time she would wake up so how could she heal herself? And if so why she didn't do it in the first place to beging with instead of siting in pool of blood, dying and waiting for Shirou.

Quote:
It's not out on DVD yet, and there aren't any known plans to do more yet.
Yeh, I noticed that movie is a recent one.
Well considering that they did create movie for second route I do have hopes that they will create another one in about next year or two.
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Old 2010-05-27, 16:01   Link #750
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Alright I'm finally done with anime and I started to look thorugh Heven's Feel route, started day 11 already though I did skip through a lot previouse days there...
If you're gonna read HF, you really have to read the whole thing, or it just won't make sense.

Quote:
Anime team should have done more seasons or at least one more with alternative story. I don't know about other game routes but I definetly would like to see Heavens feel route animated.
Yeah, definitely.

Quote:
Yes one of the reasons is because I will get more Rider development but another is that I find idea of the dark Saber and Sakura FAR more interesting and I don't really like those characters.
What do you mean by that? To understand Sakura, you really need to watch HF fully, rather than skipping bits of it.

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So basicly some witch made Saber's wife pregnant? And child didn't knwo about Saber's gender? And wife?
Actually, no. Merlin (I think) gave her a penis and got her to impregnate her sister, Morgana.

Basically, Nasu was stuck with the fact that a core part of King Arthur's legend is that he produced a son with his half-sister who he disowned and then later betrayed him and brought down the kingdom, which doesn't work very well when King Arthur is female.... So, he hand-waved it with "lol, Merlin gave me a penis".
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Old 2010-05-27, 16:35   Link #751
mAc Chaos
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That part of the legend still doesn't jibe with Saber's own personality...
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Old 2010-05-27, 16:47   Link #752
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That part of the legend still doesn't jibe with Saber's own personality...
What actually happened was Merlin, in all his infinite wisdom, decided to play a joke on Arturia and gave her a penis for a day. Morgana, with her plotting, used this as an opportunity to steal some sperm from Arturia (note they did NOT have sex in the Nasu version). She then used that to create a homunculus she deemed Mordred. So while Arturia is technically the father, that child is about as illegitimate as it gets and she does not recognize him. Also, Mordred is very likely unaware that Arturia is a girl.
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Old 2010-05-27, 17:45   Link #753
kitten320
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If you're gonna read HF, you really have to read the whole thing, or it just won't make sense.
Duno, I started with part where Shinji kept Sakura hostages and so far I understand everything well. Saber is dead, duno to whom she lost but it doesn't really interest me and I know that Sakura was raped and staff like this in the past, so I'm pretty aware of everything without actually reading those other days.


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What do you mean by that? To understand Sakura, you really need to watch HF fully, rather than skipping bits of it.
That was mostly anime based opinion since Sakura and Saber didn't really interest me. And as far as I can tell the whole Sakura's real nature explanation starts after Shinji had kidnapped her. Really doubt that I will learn anything new from those past days. But if I'm wrong, you can correct me.


Quote:
Actually, no. Merlin (I think) gave her a penis and got her to impregnate her sister, Morgana.

Basically, Nasu was stuck with the fact that a core part of King Arthur's legend is that he produced a son with his half-sister who he disowned and then later betrayed him and brought down the kingdom, which doesn't work very well when King Arthur is female.... So, he hand-waved it with "lol, Merlin gave me a penis".
EEEEEHHHH?! So my theory about penis was correct?!

Kinda lost with second part... who was Nasu again? I'm anime watcher so...

Anyway I still think that keeping male King Arthur would be better...
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Old 2010-05-27, 17:57   Link #754
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Duno, I started with part where Shinji kept Sakura hostages and so far I understand everything well. Saber is dead, duno to whom she lost but it doesn't really interest me and I know that Sakura was raped and staff like this in the past, so I'm pretty aware of everything without actually reading those other days.
There's quite a bit of foreshadowing there, stuff about Zouken and Shinji, a huge amount of stuff explaining Sakura's relationship with Shirou and also a little bit of awesomeness from Rider. I can't remember exactly what you're missing, but I think there will be at least some stuff that will make less sense.

Quote:
That was mostly anime based opinion since Sakura and Saber didn't really interest me.
Well, trying to judge Sakura from the anime is absurd, really, because the anime simply doesn't cover her in enough detail. Saber I can understand, though.

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who was Nasu again?
He's the guy who wrote FSN (the original VN, not the anime).

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Anyway I still think that keeping male King Arthur would be better...
Remember that FSN is an erotic visual novel. The whole Fate route was built around the Shirou/Saber relationship, and that simply couldn't work if they were the same gender.

Incidentally, the story originally had with a female protagonist (something like Rin, I believe) and a male King Arthur, but Nasu realised early in the development that an erotic VN based around a female protagonist simply wouldn't sell as well, so he gender-swapped them both.
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Old 2010-05-27, 18:05   Link #755
Blade_Lord
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But wasn't she called father? How could she be a father? Unless one part of her body was...
Everyone sees King Arthur as a male. Then some kid walk up to her and says Mother. Wouldn't that image Arturia try to build up after all the years would be shattered in an instant?

Remember, Mordred IDOLIZE his father. It's only because she misunderstood her father's word that the Battle of Camlann happened.

And Cherry Lover...

What I mean is...a battle between Servants isn't just base on stats and ability. Masters compatibility with the servant play a huge role too.

Spoiler for Battle of the Bridge:
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Old 2010-05-27, 18:14   Link #756
kitten320
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Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover View Post
There's quite a bit of foreshadowing there, stuff about Zouken and Shinji, a huge amount of stuff explaining Sakura's relationship with Shirou and also a little bit of awesomeness from Rider. I can't remember exactly what you're missing, but I think there will be at least some stuff that will make less sense.
Well I can always go back and read it^^
That is as long as the person who uploaded game material is around. But I guess I will take a look after I'm done and if I'm confused. But still thanks for info

Quote:
Well, trying to judge Sakura from the anime is absurd, really, because the anime simply doesn't cover her in enough detail. Saber I can understand, though.
Yeh I know, that is why I'll see how she will turn out here.
P.S. So far I don't mind even Shirou

Quote:
He's the guy who wrote FSN (the original VN, not the anime).
Ah, will keep that in mind.
Never heard about that part of story about King Arthut... now I start to dislike him -_-
Himself made his sister pregnant and then disovned her, what a bastard.

I duno if I should be happy about me guessing how Saber got a child


Quote:
Remember that FSN is an erotic visual novel. The whole Fate route was built around the Shirou/Saber relationship, and that simply couldn't work if they were the same gender.

Incidentally, the story originally had with a female protagonist (something like Rin, I believe) and a male King Arthur, but Nasu realised early in the development that an erotic VN based around a female protagonist simply wouldn't sell as well, so he gender-swapped them both.
Still kinda distrubing... he could choose some female heroine then instead. And duno, I really wouldn't mind if Shirou would be a girl instead while Saber a guy...

Blade_Lord
Does make some sence, thanks
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Old 2010-05-27, 18:36   Link #757
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What I mean is...a battle between Servants isn't just base on stats and ability. Masters compatibility with the servant play a huge role too.

Spoiler for Battle of the Bridge:
Well, OK. In that case then Sakura's compatability with every servant is pretty much zero, since
Spoiler for HF:


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Still kinda distrubing... he could choose some female heroine then instead.
Possibly. I don't think there are all that many famous, uber-powerful swordswomen, though....

Quote:
And duno, I really wouldn't mind if Shirou would be a girl instead while Saber a guy...
But how would the other two routes work? I doubt there are too many guys who would want to buy an erotic VN where there is one female protagonist and three male love interests (although, in reality, anyone who plays FSN solely for the sex scenes is a total moron, because they're shit and take up about an hour of a 3-day-long game...). Note that, other than Shirou, every even remotely important good-guy is female (and most of the more sympathetic antagonists, like Caster, are too).
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Old 2010-05-27, 19:47   Link #758
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Point taken.
Though then again real Medusa was never a rider... don't remeber her riding anyone. And Archers (Gilgamesh included) use swords instead of bows... unless by archer is meant simply shooting something though still kinda weird.
That way I think they could come up with something for Saber too.

Duno about what happend in other routes so can't tell.
But I guess they would have to change story for those routes or completly change whole cast... the last scenario would be troublesome...

Does the game really have erotic scenes? I mean in actual action, not simply saying I had sex with her and her. Because if it is only on words, playing game just for tht is dumb... you can read fanfiction at this rate.
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Old 2010-05-27, 19:57   Link #759
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Point taken.
Though then again real Medusa was never a rider... don't remeber her riding anyone.
Well, yes....

Quote:
unless by archer is meant simply shooting something though still kinda weird.
It does. Someone who fights with a gun would probably come under Archer too.

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That way I think they could come up with something for Saber too.
Possibly, but Nasu wanted a traditional "knight" character, I think, and there aren't really any powerful female knights.

Quote:
Duno about what happend in other routes so can't tell.
But I guess they would have to change story for those routes or completly change whole cast... the last scenario would be troublesome...
You simply couldn't do it, really.

Quote:
Does the game really have erotic scenes? I mean in actual action, not simply saying I had sex with her and her. Because if it is only on words, playing game just for tht is dumb... you can read fanfiction at this rate.
Yes, it does (the Youtube version doesn't show them because the guy couldn't get them past the censors). In the Fate route, the sex scenes happen before the final Berserker fight (the "CG dragon" scene was originally a threesome with Rin, Saber and Shirou in order to give Saber enough prana to fight) and on the final night (between Shirou and Saber).
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Old 2010-05-28, 05:42   Link #760
kitten320
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I know perfect female knight, Jeanne d'Arc.

It actually was my first guess on Saber, never expected King Arthur.

So I guees some of the hentai pics that I have seen were taken from game... Shirou, you player! He even got his hands on Rider x_x
Hope at least Caster got spared...
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