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Old 2006-08-01, 11:32   Link #41
JarOfMayo
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Well mostly everybody... including the strange gathering of Mahoraba fans (YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ) *cough* seems to have said what needs to be said.

To compliment I guess... mit this is like the guy who says, "OMG I don't want gays working out in the same gym as straight (me) guys!!" and then goes off and googles up lesbian pron for the evening, "Whats wrong with lesbians.... They hawt fool "

See? lol Society is really multi faced in what it seems to accept and what it doesn't. If you think you'll be judged gay by your friends... well... Thats more or less up to you. Your friends... or I should say your wannabe friends will jump ship if they are too naive to know any better.

Yet many of us would probably chose not to allow the above and continue to live in hiding. I can't help but think this is but one of the factors to the hikikomori problem. An inability to interact with society that demands conformity and shows off a model image of man and woman as "correct!" So if the young man who enjoys his anime is unable to get society to accept his hobby the world becomes only him and whats associated to what he enjoys.

Of course I don't mean to say mit is at risk or anything. Just that the world is a cruel place, and what matters in ones anime watching is whether one wants to and enjoys watching it. Yes, thats mostly it. So in the end "whether or not my friends approve of it" or not is usually never a big deal cause Anime is to a viewer and can never be to an audience... as there is no such thing as an Anime for an audience and not a viewer... (what did he say? lol )

uhhhm lol well to put it short:
Anime is like your model railroad hobby, you enjoy the model and some chibis are gonna come by and oooo and awe at your model railroad too... Yet one day many of them will go on to leave your side, and yet may take up new hobbies or even their own railroads. It doesn't change the fact though... That your model railroad is essentially yours because while you can always sit and stare at the trains go around and around and never get bored... others will always move on (to what they have).
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Old 2006-08-01, 11:40   Link #42
Theowne
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Eh, there's nothing wrong with this sort of stuff. I'm about the same as you, around the same age, straight, male, etc, and I also have tastes that either aren't regular or aren't talked about much. For example I like Love Hina because of the love story and actually dislike the fanservice and such. Don't really get why people are surprised that males can like romance stories. Eh, whatever, if that's weird, then I guess I'm weird too, and that means you're not alone....
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Old 2006-08-01, 13:15   Link #43
Vexx
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One of the problems is that labeling something a "girly anime" is often done inaccurately .... some morons call *any* romance story "girly". Not a useful term.

Not to devolve but the pokedbzuto stuff ... well I find it full of the male stereotype I find annoying and we could do with less of -- loud, boasting, arrogant, lots of explosions. So like what was speculated, yeah it has teamwork, etc. but then I don't enjoy football movies either. I tend to think of more subtle forms of teamwork and loyalty -- like people just giving each other a hand and supporting each other in daily life.

Mahoraba requires one actually pay attention to the story to understand the adult aspects of it --- the artstyle is what throws people off who have trouble with critical thinking skills.

I'd almost say any male who doesn't "get"/like Honey & Clover ... you should limit your contacts with

Yeah.. it was very unfortunate that someone who spells their name in all_caps with a bad timing on their sense of humor got the first+1 post in.

Bincho-tan is just.. kind of weird. I basically label it one of those shows you show little kids in the waiting room. The animation is kind of fascinating and the narrator's voice is "soothing story teller". But in my library its basically a novelty item. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Titanic was just *bad* of course you should worry about someone that liked it

I'm trying to watch Chokotto Sister at the moment... the story is just one of those innocent faux-nostalgic things "if I had a sister or daughter". But what throws me off is the rather "interesting" camera pans that scream loli-fetish. So it has me thinking "is this something I want on my hard drive when the Feds come trolling?" much less what would other people think about my watching it.
I guess I'd ask people if they sat through the award-winning movie Taxi Driver in response (one of the main characters was a 12 yr old prostitute). At least my show is less corrupt and decadent
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Old 2006-08-01, 13:39   Link #44
Noodlehead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mit7059
I am a straight, male, seventeen year old, and some of the anime I've been watching makes me wonder, "is it wrong for me to like this?"
Hmm. How do I put this simply, in a way that everyone so that everyone can understand it...

Ah, I know.

NO!

&*#@ing no. Actually, I applaud you for watching a wide range of shows. Most people are too insecure to venture out of their target audience.

Seriously, the only reason that people are uncomfortable enjoying things that aren't directed for the age or sex demographic they happen to belong to is because of the damned media. Why does society have to tell us what we can or cannot watch, especially when society views us as just another face among billions, rather than an individual person with our preferences and aspirations?

Some time ago, being feminine, being masculine -- both terms just flew over my head. I don't care much about it anymore. Personally, I pretty much watch any genre of anime as long as it's good and I enjoy it, and I don't know or care if I'm straight, bi, gay, whatever. You have to realize: associating your hobbies and that of the sort with your sexuality is completely irrelevant, and in short, it simply doesn't make sense. There can be a gay guy who loves crazy action flicks, and then you've got your straight sentimental male teen who enjoys sappy romances.

Heck, my brother -- he's your age -- watched Sukisyo, Yami no Matsuei, Gravitation, and Princess Princess. He's about to finish the first season of Honey & Clover, and is currently watching Ouran Host Club with me. He reads Perfect Girl Evolution and Parfait Tic, but for some reason, won't touch Death Note. And I can assure you, he's straight. He's comfortable enough with himself to be able to watch/read any type of genre without shying away, which personally, I find admirable.

I really hope he doesn't read this.

What has always annoyed me is how guys get teased/ridiculed for their peers for doing something considered "less than manly." This doesn't really happen among females, so why among males? Why is it okay for girls to do "guy" things, when it doesn't apply the other way around? The whole "masculinity" thing isn't a role to live by anymore, it's just this fabricated facade created by society.

Don't let them decide what you can or cannot do, what you can or cannot watch -- be it a show meant for girls, boys, men, women, old grandmas, housewives, working businessmen, cats, dogs, birds, babies, exrtaterrestrial beings -- it doesn't matter. Ultimately, it is your own choice. And being able to make such a choice regardless of the reactions of ignorant others and taking pride in your decisions is true masculinity.

~ Noodlehead
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Old 2006-08-01, 14:17   Link #45
Neaco
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^You summed it up quite nicely. Just watch what you want.

I do understand that yes, society with all of its stereotypes may not be as acccepting. BUT, Who cares! Why should they DECIDE what YOU should watch?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype

The topic starter mentions about hiding his personal tastes from his friends. IMO if they're TRUELY your friends, they'll care less. I have plenty of friends who know I watch anime and they dislike it but do respect what I like. I don't push anyone else to watch anything they don't like either and they do the same with me for their hobbies.

I hate the macho pride attitudes as much as noodlehead. Why it is so one sided?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machismo

If you are afraid they'll be too immature to respect your own tastes as you have said, then just don't mention it to them. Thery're the only ones who are missing out... If they're continuing to be drones of society's stereotypes too bad for them. The society makes thier own stupid rules. I remember from a cultural class that there was a tribal society in the tropics somewhere where it was considered "macho" to have emotions. I'm dead serious. There is no universal traits one should have that is correct. It's just made up.

For the record, I love Mahoraba and Ouran Host Club as well, and I also like an action show now and then.
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Old 2006-08-01, 15:20   Link #46
Maxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neaco
The topic starter mentions about hiding his personal tastes from his friends. IMO if they're TRUELY your friends, they'll care less. I have plenty of friends who know I watch anime and they dislike it but do respect what I like. I don't push anyone else to watch anything they don't like either and they do the same with me for their hobbies.
I've started to try to see less of my "friends" that mock me for watching anime. I'm actually a bit happier this way, and I've got a bit closer to a friend who is also into anime. There is another friend who likes anime as much as me, but I try not be too friendly with her because I don't want to exclusively have anime loving friends.

The idea of only having anime loving friends seems boring IMO.

@mit7590: Remember, those that question the masculinity of others are the ones that are not totally comfortable in their own masculinity.
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Old 2006-08-01, 15:27   Link #47
bayoab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx
I'd almost say any male who doesn't "get"/like Honey & Clover ... you should limit your contacts with

Bincho-tan is just.. kind of weird. I basically label it one of those shows you show little kids in the waiting room. The animation is kind of fascinating and the narrator's voice is "soothing story teller". But in my library its basically a novelty item. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I'm trying to watch Chokotto Sister at the moment... the story is just one of those innocent faux-nostalgic things "if I had a sister or daughter". But what throws me off is the rather "interesting" camera pans that scream loli-fetish. So it has me thinking "is this something I want on my hard drive when the Feds come trolling?" much less what would other people think about my watching it.
I guess I'd ask people if they sat through the award-winning movie Taxi Driver in response (one of the main characters was a 12 yr old prostitute). At least my show is less corrupt and decadent
Your whole post brings up the whole idea of target audience vs viewing audience vs (something I dont have a word for) which is basically what this entire thread is about. This is both while labeling fails and labeling is used as an excuse. The problem is, that these three rarely match what they are supposed to be.

The target audience is who the show is marketed towards. Ill just borrow your 3 shows here for examples. Honey & Clover is targeted at females and a little more generic of a group of just teens. Bincho-tan is targeted at old men who have just come home from work. Chocotto sister.. is targeted at lolicon/moe otaku. These may all be considered Seinen or some crap, but this is just again just who they think will buy the stuff they shove at you with the show. This is usually where the insults come from or where people derive excuses for watching these shows. Shoujo being watched by males, moe shows being called "shounen", etc. Just because a show is targted at young males does not change the fact that girls love Digimon for some reason.

There is the viewing audience who is of course, who watches the show. Honey and Clover is watched by lots of teens and young adults of both genders.
Bincho-tan is watched by people who like shows where nothing really happens.
Chocotto sister is well.. watched by lolicons and moe otaku. Yes, there are exceptions and other people who aren't interested in this part but this is reality.

So yes, if you are watching something and feel guilty, just realize you aren't the target audiance. If you like it, watch it. Just don't be surprised if the target audiance comes back and strikes you in the butt.

The (something I dont have a word for) is an alternate group who the shows are targeted towards knowing that they are easy hook-line-sinker. These are sort of, who the show is REALLY targeting secretly.
Honey and Clover is males (a 18 yr old who looks 8... geee... yes, this is what killled the show for me).
Bincho-tan is lolicons/moe otaku. Yes. Seriously. This is the majority of who ends up watching the show and buying the stuff for it.
Chocotto sister ... goes 3 for 3: lolicons and moe otaku.

If you think about it, most shows are indirectly targetting otaku but you can just ignore that usually.
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Old 2006-08-01, 15:47   Link #48
Deathkillz
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hmm my view is watch wht you are interested in...but heck you arent the only one who questions anime and the "is it really ok for me to be watching this" factor cause affects us all (well nearly) some things that are shown are so obviously over the top (one thing that pops to my mind are the elephants from inukami ) that it can seriously make you doubt you sanity
but if you start watching something like ouran host club and find that you are turning gay (a bit) my advice would be to carry on watching if you are interested in the series and also you are too far beyond repair XD
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Old 2006-08-01, 15:54   Link #49
DaFool
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Quote:
Honey and Clover is males (a 18 yr old who looks 8... geee... yes, this is what killled the show for me).
Bincho-tan is lolicons/moe otaku. Yes. Seriously. This is the majority of who ends up watching the show and buying the stuff for it.
Chocotto sister ... goes 3 for 3: lolicons and moe otaku.
Actually while I don't dispute the superior quality of Honey & Clover, it was just too emotionally draining (maybe too relevant?) so I never got to finish it. I will probably continue later when I've sorted through some real-world stuff. In this case, I think I 'got' it way too much.

Instead I finished Binchou-tan. Because nothing happens, there's pretty pictures and good orchestra music. I don't care about the moe factor or whatever because in my opinion the characters where just damn ugly. And I am a stressed out salaryman, and that's exactly the kind of show that relaxes me after 12+ hours at the office-sweatshop. Yes, I am loosing lots of hair, though I haven't hit 30 even. Thankfully, Binchou-tan saved some of my hair.

Chocotto Sister...Ok, I admit. I have no sister. It's a guilty pleasure. I can't argue with this one at all.
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Old 2006-08-01, 15:56   Link #50
arias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mit7059
I am a straight, male, seventeen year old, and some of the anime I've been watching makes me wonder, "is it wrong for me to like this?" I'm not questioning my sexuality in anyway, and its probably just stereotypes and public stigma talking but some series that I've watched and enjoyed just made me feal a little weird. Shows like Ouran High School Host Club, Shuffle!, Mahoraba ~Heartful Days~, even Aishiteru ze Baby and Honey & Clover to an extent.

My message to you: You're not alone.

Don't get swallowed by the mainstream macho agenda.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFool
Actually while I don't dispute the superior quality of Honey & Clover, it was just too emotionally draining (maybe too relevant?) so I never got to finish it. I will probably continue later when I've sorted through some real-world stuff. In this case, I think I 'got' it way too much.
I hope you're talking about season 2, because H&C s1 is not draining (at least as a whole) but uplifting.
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Old 2006-08-01, 16:14   Link #51
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mit7059
During Mahoraba ~Heatful Days~ I got the feeling that I shouldn't be watching it not because it was girly, but because it was kinda kidish.
I wouldn't say kiddish. It's deceptively simple. All these characters have problems, but the series doesn't focus on that. Some things are addressed, but in general, the series shows these disfunctional people living their lives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mangatron
Hey, everyone I brainwashed loved it! That may include you, and keep that sig lol, you better not take it out!
I'm not brainwashed... Wait, if I was, I wouldn't know it... Well, I think it's safe to say I'm probably not brainwashed.

And don't worry, if I decide to change sigs, I have a few Kozue-chan avs I can use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoab
Mahoraba absolutely screamed shounen dating sim from all angles. I do not know how anyone could think it was anything else.
Just wondering, how many episodes did you see?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx
I'm trying to watch Chokotto Sister at the moment... the story is just one of those innocent faux-nostalgic things "if I had a sister or daughter". But what throws me off is the rather "interesting" camera pans that scream loli-fetish. So it has me thinking "is this something I want on my hard drive when the Feds come trolling?" much less what would other people think about my watching it.
I'd be reluctant to say I liked Chokotto Sister too... As for being on my hard drive, I'd be more concerned that it's a copyright violation like other series than anything else. Sure it's possible someone could misinterpret it, but there's nothing really wrong with it... Well, maybe the apron scene, but still...
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Old 2006-08-01, 16:37   Link #52
Vexx
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This thread is starting to sound like a support group discussion

Thanks for the analysis, bayoab ... it also re-emphasizes for me that certain people are going to find "evil" anywhere they look (e.g. random parents busted for taking pictures of their toddler having a bubble bath ... oh the witchburning) so I should just walk around with snappy responses at the ready: "I didn't see that at all, what kind of pervert are *you*??"

Hagu is a bit difficult to get used to in H&C ... maybe its the blonde/blue features they gave her? For me, it'd be easier to swallow her petiteness with asian features since asian girls sometimes come in "easy to carry" sizes no matter what their age. My wife watched the first half of the series before she finally said, "o .. I understand the Hagu character now. Sheesh, why'd they go out of their way to make her such a pedo-target?"

Of course, wife-unit(japanese) still has trouble with the idea of all these white looking people with choose-your-color hair and big round eyes speaking japanese in anime
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Old 2006-08-01, 16:49   Link #53
drgntig
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Man it's not important!

the thing you have to understand is that if you feel that these anime/manga ever make you think just think if the creaters wanted you to think different they would have made a different anime/manga. The pointof anime/manga is to show you different world.If thoughts like that arise it's becausee the creaters made to where you would feelthat.justremember that the ceaters give you these feelings cause it's what they hoped you feel.
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Old 2006-08-01, 17:50   Link #54
PEDOS_GRANDE
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Originally Posted by DaFool
everyone that likes moe is a lolicon.
My good sir, no truer words have ever been spoken.
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Old 2006-08-01, 17:58   Link #55
Vexx
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Except that they aren't ...
The latter is just a small subset of moe.
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Old 2006-08-01, 18:25   Link #56
mit7059
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lol, i wasn't expecting such a response at all, every time I leave for like 9 or 10 hours I come back with another 25 responses. It's almost ironic that everyone keeps emphisizing my mentioning of my sexuality when I only highlighted it so the it wouldn't be an issue. In my naive way of thinking were I take things at face value I thought that if I set it out there right away It wouldn't become an issue. I guess I was wrong. As to my friends, it's not that they wouldn't be my friends if they saw what I was watching, but we rag on eachother a lot, ballbusting if you will, and its never good to give them more ammo. But to be sure, I am terribly insecure, like most other teenagers, which is why I think I love Honey & Clover so much because I feel that I can relate to some of what Takemoto is going through. And it's good to see that PEDOS_GRANDE was able to post again, its always nice to have a little ignorance thrown in for comedic effect, kinda like the religious right, except without the rallies and bombings of abortion clinics.
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Old 2006-08-01, 18:26   Link #57
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I've oftentimes found myself wondering the same thing. When I talk to my friends about Anime, I openly admit the fact that I watch..."tender" series. The guys begin laughing. The girls go "Aww," and "You're so sensitive," etc. USE ANIME LIKE THOSE YOU MENTIONED TO YOUR ADVANTAGE! It's not exactly a trump card of mine or anything, but it's simply one of factors that can fill up your Sensitivity or Romantic parameters in the eyes of chicks.

And as for any disapproving male acquaintances of yours...simply compete in some testosterone-driven contest with them to break the ice. Example--->

Potential Alpha Male A: "Dude. You watch Rozen Maiden. You collect dolls. You're totally gay."

Potential Alpha Male B: "Uhh...yeah. You blow."

Anime-Watcher: "Nah. You guys just don't know how to appreciate beauty and art and other various aesthetic qualities and stuff! You know what? Let's have a Grill-Off. Right now. Me VS all of you. Whoever grills better meat and consumes more of it wins!"


And that's all.
[....Yes. This has happend to me before.]
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Old 2006-08-01, 18:31   Link #58
mit7059
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogwheim
Potential Alpha Male A: "Dude. You watch Rozen Maiden. You collect dolls. You're totally gay."

Potential Alpha Male B: "Uhh...yeah. You blow."

Anime-Watcher: "Nah. You guys just don't know how to appreciate beauty and art and other various aesthetic qualities and stuff! You know what? Let's have a Grill-Off. Right now. Me VS all of you. Whoever grills better meat and consumes more of it wins!"


And that's all.
[....Yes. This has happend to me before.]
Our level of conversation isn't that low, but as for a grill off, I would never win. Two of my best friends are 6'6" and 6'7". Just a few days ago I watched one of them eat 2 and a half pounds of hamburger, while I could only manage half of that.
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Old 2006-08-01, 18:56   Link #59
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Heh...my level of conversation with them isn't that barbaric either, but I figured it'd be more simple and I suppose more funny to present it in that manner.

And...wow. Your friends are tall. I guess if you're friends with them due to having had met them through a basketball team or something, it would make sense. Otherwise, it's bizarre that your friends are so tall.

I ate two and a half or more pounds of hamburger just last night, coincidentally.

My point is that some people simply aren't going to yield--they'll stubbornly persist in saying that watching Anime is a strange and nerdy hobby with slight homosexual undertones. Want to know why? They have no interest in Anime. They're probably already pleased with hobbies of their own, and they know nothing about anime nor are they curious enough to do any research. You don't need to recruit people to the Anime "cause." No one should think of himself as an Anime martyr. People are drawn to Anime for their own reasons, and no one should be able to deter Otakus in their ever-lasting quest for animated satisfaction. Don't let those who don't "understand" Anime, or those who have no interest in it distance you from your hobby. If you watch Anime, then that's simply a component of what makes you...you.

...and so what if you're a little gay? [Not saying that you are or anything, there's just been talk--that's all.]
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Old 2006-08-01, 19:03   Link #60
wingdarkness
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All of this because your scared your HS buddies will tease you for watching "kiddy anime"?? O_o;; And here I'm thinking you're considering going to confession for seeing Primula's tater-tots...

Dude everybody watches certain programs that they either wouldn't admit to watching or is a guilty pleasure for them...So what? If you think your friends are gonna flame the hell outta you simply don't let them know..If you have a friend that might be receptive to this than test it out...As much anime as I've watched in my life when it comes to watching anime with a group full of machismos we watch action, action, action, and more action, followed by ecchi, ecchi, and more ecchi (Also alot of visully awesome animes aswell that is pure-eyecandy) I would never watch something like KGNE or ParadiseKiss in a group full of guys I didn't know (or even knew well), that $hit would just feel weird and the silence in the room would be so awkward...Simply because I'm a guys guy...Now there are gonna be 10 people that come behind me and say you should watch emotional animes and be who you are and all this other crap that is unrealistic in a real-world setting....Now if they are gay and comfortable or straight and comfortable that's their deal, but if you know your friends are some immature testosterone pumpers who will flame the hell outta you for years and years then why bother??

Find a nice chick who can relate to watch that type of stuff with you..Honestly I don't see why you would even want to watch kiddy-emotional, relationship, sappy anime with guy friends to begin with...I watched KGNE with a girl and that was great to show off my sensitive side and I even got a reward for that^^, but I wouldn't even want to watch any of the shows you mentioned in an all guy setting because of the awkwardness in general...I have guilty pleasure shows aswell...I watch "The Young in the Restless" all the time (Hey it's the greatest soap ever and I grew up watching it)...Now alot of guys I know watch it (especially in college) and I knew loads of athletes watched it from my days of being a college football reporter, but I also know no guys would ever throw a Y&R party and have 10 guys over and all watch it together...

So basically watch your guilty pleasure shows by yourself or with a girl you can trust...enjoy them and when the fellas come over watch what everyone will enjoy..No need to feel weird because alot of people look for more impactful or emotional anime after they get over their intial kick of shonen-mecha-gedden...But don't beat yourself up or evaluate your status in the world because of it...And with all due respect to everyone on this thread don't do something stupid that you will regret..No need to push others into your way of thinking...Your best bet is to get a girl to watch these shows with you if you want an audience....Unless your a spazz that can't get a girl to sit in the same room with you for a couple eps...If so, sorry fo'ya...
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