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Old 2006-08-01, 19:10   Link #61
Vexx
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Insecurity about one's belief system drives a lot of "witchburning" in the secular arena as well.

Example: I think American football is just a boring silly waste of time (opiate of the masses quote here) and serves mostly as an opener and closer for the halftime marching band's act.
You would not believe how batty this makes some people who cherish the sport... or maybe you would. The difference is I think its fine that they like their hobby ... but they seem unglued by the notion that I don't like their hobby.
Conversely, they think I'm bizarre for being in the SCA but it doesn't stop there --- I should stop it because its "different" (usually satanism is claimed.... then I ruin their day by saying that satanism only applies to Christians.. and watch the gears spin).
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Old 2006-08-01, 19:20   Link #62
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OK I don't quite get the Satism to Football comparison, but if you find American Football (Inwhich I am a supreme expert who has had a job as a football reporter amounsgt other things in this profession), I do feel for you...It's such a complex sport with so many nuiances and to think that there are some people who think it's silly and uneventful kinda irks me but that's how it is...Even girls who hate sports understand the importance between most guys and football...Perhaps an acquried taste, yet many who diss have no clue of the intricacies the sport displays that heighten what some may view as boring...

What does this have to do with the topic, well if your gonna watch some soap opera anime with guys in the room, wear a helmet xD....
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Old 2006-08-01, 19:37   Link #63
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mit7059
I am a straight, male, seventeen year old, and some of the anime I've been watching makes me wonder, "is it wrong for me to like this?" I'm not questioning my sexuality in anyway, and its probably just stereotypes and public stigma talking but some series that I've watched and enjoyed just made me feal a little weird. Shows like Ouran High School Host Club, Shuffle!, Mahoraba ~Heartful Days~, even Aishiteru ze Baby and Honey & Clover to an extent.

But, mit7059 hasn't said yet what weird feelings he has or what in particular about these titles makes him feel weird. I think that he should say more about this.
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Old 2006-08-01, 19:42   Link #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mit7059
[..]

It's almost ironic that everyone keeps emphisizing my mentioning of my sexuality when I only highlighted it so the it wouldn't be an issue. In my naive way of thinking were I take things at face value I thought that if I set it out there right away It wouldn't become an issue. I guess I was wrong. As to my friends, it's not that they wouldn't be my friends if they saw what I was watching, but we rag on eachother a lot, ballbusting if you will, and its never good to give them more ammo. But to be sure, I am terribly insecure, like most other teenagers, which is why I think I love Honey & Clover so much because I feel that I can relate to some of what Takemoto is going through.

And it's good to see that PEDOS_GRANDE was able to post again, its always nice to have a little ignorance thrown in for comedic effect, kinda like the religious right, except without the rallies and bombings of abortion clinics.
Not an insult, but it's pretty obvious you're a teenager... by inferring from the non-existence of paragraphs. : p I was kind enough to restructure your post.

The sexuality thing is pretty big, mostly because there are alot of people who watch anime who think of themselves as rather elite, egalitarian free-thinkers.. raging against the homophobic, the pedophillic (maybe?), the discriminatory, the unjust and blah. Of course they mostly don't realize that what they're doing is merely imposing their own brand of (libertarian) dogma on others. But of course, if you were aware of this you should've said so in your post, or just left it out as you now probably think you should have.

On the side, PEDOS_GRANDE is a troll but I don't think this reflects his true opinions or anything of the such. Don't demonize him. He was probably just really annoyed at your first post.. As happens to me, I just unleash my troll and go on a flaming rampage when stupidity beckons (obvious from my posting history).

So now to the meat of the issue. Those were your choice of friends, this is the path you bear.. Having friends who follow the mainstream macho construct would of course, earn you some tongue-lashing. I don't know how your relationship dynamics are, but if it gets unbearable you can always work it out. If not, I don't see why having this extra bit of anime as "ammo" for your friends would hurt. Increasing the amount of bicker is only a plus, unless your ego gets hurt from the abuse.. from which you'll have to sort out a solution from.


I think your main concern here is of course, the MASCULINITY of watching anime. I don't think you need to be shy or covert about this. It's pretty obvious that this is your worry. And I'd say it's obviously quite far divorced from the social stereotype of masculine males.. muscular, tall, sports-loving, sports-engaging, gregarious, female-attracting.. etc. Obviously the stereotype of an anime fan is nowhere near that, and is probably closer to the otakus we see in Genshiken/NHK. Physically weak, socially inadequate, uninterested in sports, shy, sensitive..

To my knowledge this image persists, and it's reasonable that you wouldn't want to be associated with a negative stereotype. But I don't think I need to illustrate to you with examples on how fans do not necessarily conform to such a stereotype.. in case you didn't know, the comedian Robin Williams is a pretty massive anime fan. He watches Ghost in the Shell, SteamBoy and even Full Metal Alchemist (in the movie One Hour Photo, there is a FMA figurine in one of the scenes which comes from his private collection). And alot of the posters here are probably nowhere near the stereotype, but it is true that we probably have at least some notable characteristics shared with the stereotype (e.g. sensitivity or introvertedness).

I suspect you already know most of this -- that anime fans are not necessarily "feminine" or sissies. And let me tell you what you might not know: the negative stereotype isn't going to go away soon. You have to choose your path; to watch anime and own up to it, getting pooped on by others in the process or getting away from anime and joining the beer-bellied, sports watching masses. It's almost ironic that the former is a masculine decision in courage to choose something others might laugh upon, while the latter is a cowardly, "sissy" decision in escape.
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Old 2006-08-01, 20:07   Link #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arias
I suspect you already know most of this -- that anime fans are not necessarily "feminine" or sissies. And let me tell you what you might not know: the negative stereotype isn't going to go away soon. You have to choose your path; to watch anime and own up to it, getting pooped on by others in the process or getting away from anime and joining the beer-bellied, sports watching masses. It's almost ironic that the former is a masculine decision in courage to choose something others might laugh upon, while the latter is a cowardly, "sissy" decision in escape.
That is soo true...watching anime is nothing to be ashamed of...ppl who take the piss are just ignorant bitches and IMO they are the biggest sissies most ppl wont even try anime beforehand and are stabbing at you saying its crap...shows wht they know!! and they themselves are wasting hours watching things that i dnt like (such as football) but you dnt see me saying anything -.-
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Old 2006-08-01, 20:08   Link #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arias
Not an insult, but it's pretty obvious you're a teenager... by inferring from the non-existence of paragraphs. : p I was kind enough to restructure your post.
I am laughing on line (or out loud if you would prefer). On the contrary, I don't believe that my lack of paragraphs has anything to do with me being a teenager, rather from the fact that this is a internet forum, where normal grammer and formating rules don't normally apply. I am actually a decent writer, if fact I'm taking my second year of AP english next year, but thats beside the point.

Maybe the reason why I'm afraid of the sterotype is because aspects of it fit me. I'm not phyically weak as I work out year round, but until high-school I definately was. And I am definatly socially awkword, but increasingly less so, which may be why I am afraid of being further alienated from people, I don't want to go back. I am very intelligent, and unfortunatly, can be rather arrogant, modesty is not my strong point. As a result I have trouble making friends, so when I do make them, I don't want to lose them, and I do want more friends, so I don't want to give potential friends further evidence of why I'm different than them.

In terms of what someone said earlier, I'm really not sure why I sometimes feel uncomfortable watching different series. It varies from series to series. In Ouran HS Host Club, some of the Hikaru/Kauru almost-yaoi kinda creeped me out, I don't have a problem with homosexuality, i'd just rather not see it. As I said before, with Mahoraba it was the kiddy aspects. As for the rest, arias might be right. And wingdarkness, how I wish I had a girl friend, you have no idea, or you might. In fact I'm sure a lot of guys and girls can relate to my problems on that subject, but thats nothing new for teenagers.

(Oh, and I'm a rower, which is where my tall friends come from, I'm not short at 6'1", but it doesn't always feel like I'm above average )
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Old 2006-08-01, 20:18   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arias
I think your main concern here is of course, the MASCULINITY of watching anime. I don't think you need to be shy or covert about this. It's pretty obvious that this is your worry. And I'd say it's obviously quite far divorced from the social stereotype of masculine males.. muscular, tall, sports-loving, sports-engaging, gregarious, female-attracting.. etc. Obviously the stereotype of an anime fan is nowhere near that, and is probably closer to the otakus we see in Genshiken/NHK. Physically weak, socially inadequate, uninterested in sports, shy, sensitive..
Some great observations...This stereotype is all over the place in reality...I knew some guys in college who watched $hit loads of anime who were exactly like that guy in The Simpson's who never sniffed a girl in their life...I also knew football players who get more a$$ than is humanley imaginable and watches more stuff than the biggest heads on this forum...I've met the most gangsterous thuggish mofos in the world who love anime aswell (I'm talking guys who would kill your mother--Hey I grew up in a ruff area)...It's basically about your surroundings and environments...As for me I love girls, football, basketball...I'm a straight-up man's man, but i'd like to think of myself as an intellectual in-addition to the man-beast aspect of my character...Sports pretty much rule my existence as I went to school to be a sports-caster and am currently an inspiring writer, but I love anime almost more than life itself and i go to clubs and parties, have many friends and have no quallms about discussing my love for it....At the same time however i'm not wearing a KGNE T-shirt to a sports-bar and switching the bar-TV from the boxing-match to an episode of Bichotan (I mean I'm not insane)...I also have no desire to ever do anything close in-terms of cosplay as I find it pretty ridiculous however I could probably go toe-to-toe with any cosplayer with passion for anime...Maybe even killing them in knowledge of the character they dressed up as...My point is everyone is different and deals with their anime obsessions tangent to their life experiences...So you can be yourself without having to make a production out of you being yourself...
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Old 2006-08-01, 20:49   Link #68
arias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mit7059
I am laughing on line (or out loud if you would prefer). On the contrary, I don't believe that my lack of paragraphs has anything to do with me being a teenager, rather from the fact that this is a internet forum, where normal grammer and formating rules don't normally apply. I am actually a decent writer, if fact I'm taking my second year of AP english next year, but thats beside the point.

[...]

(Oh, and I'm a rower, which is where my tall friends come from, I'm not short at 6'1", but it doesn't always feel like I'm above average )
Mm. Your arrogance already showed in the first segment of your reply.. "good writer" ; ) But I'm kidding! Not criticizing you or anything. I have an internet persona, and I have a real-life persona.. of which this internet one has a sub-troll persona, which is awesome and believes it is supremely intelligent. In fact, I'll tell you what, you can think of yourself as very intelligent as long as you know I cruise above you : )

If you're a rower, then you shouldn't be weak. It's pretty obvious that you should have rather large arms, but then again I can see how you feel undermined when compared to your mates. Fact is you're comparing to the wrong population. Hell, NBA basketballers are tall but I bet they feel small next to Shaq. That's one criminal flaw I see you falling to. As for personality flaws, I'm sure genuinity will earn you some friends.. I know it's difficult, but I rather people accept me for my difference than anything else.

But I don't blame you on wanting social company.. I'm just less in need of social acceptance. Wandering alone is one of my joys (of course, I have a number of friends and one "soul-mate" in my best friend).. There's a difference between being alone, and being lonely. Not saying this as a jibe against you or anything, I'm just saying that my character is built in such a way.


Finally, you don't need to broadcast the fact that you watch anime. I don't. If people ask or we talk about it, then I am completely honest about my habits.. But alot of people carry the negative stereotype for anime fans, and EVEN if they tell you that they don't, it's almost always quite obvious that they're trying to suppress that notion. I can see them fidgeting. This is not about being "honest" to yourself, because being honest doesn't mean being explicit. With your close mates, I do expect that they know about your habits and, although they might use this as ammo to chomp you, accept and support you.

Otherwise I don't see how you'll be happy. You can be. One last thing, arrogance can be mastered. I'm not saying that it's a necessarily bad thing (although it's frequently obnoxious -- but with the right skills, it can be charming : p) but people need to live their lives and have their wants. Just keep things in balance.. you'll do fine.

In times of confusion and lostiness, just think of arias.

Ok. I don't know why I had to put that in there.
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Old 2006-08-01, 21:00   Link #69
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Quote:
I think your main concern here is of course, the MASCULINITY of watching anime.
Well, he can correct me, but I thought it was that he questioned the masculinity of using, as he stated, "certain anime", specifically the ones he sees as girly, not just watching anime in itself.
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Old 2006-08-01, 21:02   Link #70
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Originally Posted by Theowne
Well, he can correct me, but I thought it was that he questioned the masculinity of using, as he stated, "certain anime", specifically the ones he sees as girly, not just watching anime in itself.
Oh, those anime are his main concerns for sure.

But the anime fan stereotype is, I believe, his real concern. Or if we are just playing semantics and trying to get ontop of each other here, I'm outta this thread..
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Old 2006-08-01, 21:10   Link #71
orion
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Well, as arias said the negative stereotype won't go away anytime soon. In fact as more pedophiles are found with animated child porn on their computers and more mature titles including those with moe and loli aspects (Welcome to NHK!) come over, there is a potential for a worsening reputation for anime fandom.

You will be ostracized to some extent for your hobby. That's unfortunately part of being an anime fan. Fans with careers aren't protected either.

So, I agree with arias again. Tell your hobby to your most trusted friends and don't broadcast it to the world. If you become employed in a conservative field, then definitely don't broadcast it.

Don't be ashamed of your hobby either. If it's causing you grief, then find another hobby.


-------

I kind of thought that it was alienation from peers because of being an anime fan and masculinty/maturity issues were his main worries too. If we're wrong, then mit7059 needs to correct us and talk more.
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Old 2006-08-01, 21:22   Link #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arias
Oh, those anime are his main concerns for sure.

But the anime fan stereotype is, I believe, his real concern. Or if we are just playing semantics and trying to get ontop of each other here, I'm outta this thread..
I don't know about "Playing semantics", but after reading his latest post here I was wrong, it is about the entire stereotype after all....

I wouldn't worry about the stereotype thing. If you make a new friend, he/she doesn't have to know you watch anime. For the past (many) years I would never tell my friends I watched anime until I got some hint that they did too. This way I mantain friendships with fellow anime watchers, but that doesn't botch my other regular friendships either.
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Last edited by Theowne; 2006-08-01 at 21:51.
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Old 2006-08-01, 21:36   Link #73
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I dunno.. those model railroaders are pretty odd characters ...

@wingdarkness: I didn't say football wasn't intricate or lacked nuance.. or that it was even a bad sport. It just bores me... its warfare and ritual highly abstracted. I also have my suspicions about the "bread and circuses" aspect (see "opiate of the masses"). Course I grew up in Texas where its pretty much a religion so I have to qualify my bias from that (I was in the marching band and we just liked to joke that football was dressing for the halftime ). I like my SCA activities because there's just a closer correspondence to warfare for me. I also prefer soccer and rugby, lacrosse for team sports. I tend to like skills based individual sports (archery, kendo, golf ).

@general posts and remarks: males, particularly the less bright ones, just often mistake being an ass for being masculine. It made a fair bit of news a few years ago when it was found that Vin Diesel was a serious D&D player, along with a major league baseball player, and few other "real men". And of course, someone pointed out Robin Williams was a massive anime fan (and he's a wrestler).

As you can see from all these posts, many of us are *very* different individuals, yet we like anime or at least some genres within it. Thumb your nose and sally forth. A lot of the SCA guys I know are science fiction and anime fans -- most of them look like bikers or those guys in the Capital One credit card commercials... you *really* do not want to get them annoyed. Actually more than a few *are* bikers. (Spray of blood (o its mine) and keeps fighting)
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Old 2006-08-01, 21:51   Link #74
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Robin Williams is a wrestler?
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Old 2006-08-01, 22:00   Link #75
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I think that, as stated before, just because anime targets a certain demographic that shouldn't have any effect as to whether or not you watch it. Yes so I manage to talk to my friends about Love Hina and Negima but I also talk to them about Azumanga Daioh, Saikano, and AIR. I have friends (girls) who absolutly adore Chobits and DearS just because of the outfits the girls wear not because of the fanservice (which there is a lot of). I am often mistaken as to my gender but I just take it in stride and say "I'm sorry sir/madam but I'm a ****" I love shows with fanservice but I own just as many CLAMP titles which are notoriously sappy. I have to say that most people where I come from think of anime as either Pokemon, DBZ, or hentai (some now know about the growing lolicon fandom so they think I'm a sick pedo) so I keep quiet that I like anime and manga unless someone else asks or expresses an intrest in the subject. Just watch what you enjoy and if you don't like it just turn it off. When I saw Rizelmine (2nd season) I didn't think it would go into dirty topics or subjects and then they showed just a little too much flesh for me to handle so I just turned it off. After seeing this I deleted the rest of the files from my hard drive and I haven't lost a wink of sleep from this. Just don't worry about it and if your friends want to watch an anime pull out Tenjho Tenge, a fanservicy fighting anime. Most dudes like your friends would dig that sort of thing.
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Old 2006-08-01, 23:24   Link #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mit7059
I am a straight, male, seventeen year old, and some of the anime I've been watching makes me wonder, "is it wrong for me to like this?" I'm not questioning my sexuality in anyway, and its probably just stereotypes and public stigma talking but some series that I've watched and enjoyed just made me feal a little weird.
only if you enjoy watching yaoi/futanari/guro/coprophilial/furrie/tentacle Hentai



Besides that, your fine.

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Old 2006-08-01, 23:32   Link #77
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I would think its not really a big deal that you like it.You may question you manliness or whatever but if its a truley an interest you like you should embrace it ^.^
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Old 2006-08-02, 00:11   Link #78
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I like shows such as Ouran, Honey and Clover, PlanetES, Jyu Oh Sei, and well.. alot of things on the noitamina block. I would hang around in the josei section because alot of the stuff in shonen or seinen lacks more story than what can be found in their similar female counterparts. Who really wants to watch a whole year of filler anyhow? Powerups and enemies will always be around the corner, and theres never any actual content to the plot.

I prefer anime that will convey character emotion and realistic situations which we can relate to.

I am a man, and I watch josei. Speak up, brothers! Lol.
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Old 2006-08-02, 00:36   Link #79
Epi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mit7059
In terms of what someone said earlier, I'm really not sure why I sometimes feel uncomfortable watching different series. It varies from series to series. In Ouran HS Host Club, some of the Hikaru/Kauru almost-yaoi kinda creeped me out, I don't have a problem with homosexuality, i'd just rather not see it. As I said before, with Mahoraba it was the kiddy aspects. As for the rest, arias might be right.
These are strange animes that you listed. I don't think any of them are kiddy or girly.

1) Mahoraba ~Heartful days~ is as many have pointed out a HAREM ANIME. Harem animes are ANIMES FOR GUYS! It's an anime about a guy where all these girls like him. How much more male anime could you get? Girls do not act like that in real life. As for it being kiddy, it's a story about a guy in college, where many of the other characters are of drinking age as well. The themes explored in that anime actually probably make more intuitive sense to someone over 18 than someone under 18.

2) Honey and Clover. I think this really is a show that you can't really 'get' until you've lived through that stage in your life. Sure younger people can understand it, but to really get it, to really understand what it is like to be a poor student and not have money for meat, or not have a direction in life or to understand love. These are things you have to live through to truly understand. As for the show being 'girly', I don't see how a show which features 3 male characters as the main characters, and talking about their lives and the people around them can be girly.

3) Ouran Host Club. Okay perhaps this show can be a bit girly with all the good looking shoujo guys. But then Haruhi is actually a pretty awesome character, and the slapstick comedy is awesome. As for the twins, I think of them more as the twins in Harry Potter who were always up to no good, than as the homo-erotic duo they claim to be (while as hosts). Their REAL persona is shown when they are not being hosts, and this is the real meat of the show.



Quote:
Originally Posted by rin-sama
There is nothing wrong with watching a girly anime here and there. It's best not to be inclined to a certian anime all the time. vary your likes and you'll be fine. This is what makes an otaku an otaku!

Hell i watch Marie-sama and Strawberry panic.
I just thought I had to reply to this. You know, strawberry panic isn't girly right? A show about an all girl's school where every girl is cute and makes out with every other girl isn't exactly targetted to straight girls.
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Old 2006-08-02, 01:32   Link #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arias
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You called?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoab
Bincho-tan is watched by people who like shows where nothing really happens.
Hmmm. So thats why I was squirming in my pan.. ah, seat.

Btw, whats SCA?
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