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Old 2011-10-16, 10:32   Link #6561
~Yami~
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Mavis is truly a loli.... nyaa~~ I wonder if she's still in sealed state.... I want to see her in guild... lol

what the hell with that Fairy Sphere stuff??? so what's the point for 7 years skipping time??
no change??? no new power??? I don't get your point, Mashima-sensei....

another power of bonds.... xD

I need explanation in next chapter!!!
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Old 2011-10-16, 11:48   Link #6562
squaresphere
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I have to lol at all the rage about characters not dieing, the time freeze, and "not adequate plot hax".

This has and always been a shonen manga written for middle school age boys. It does not "mature" as the original audience gets older.

The time skip works for plot in the fact that Fairy Tail is no longer the top guild in their kingdom. Seven years in plenty of time to insert new organizations at the top, new dark guilds, (Seriously FT, took out 2 of the 3 major DG making them look not all that dangerous), and gives the the mangaka room to be creative with any "new, but is now used every where" magical/social/technological advancements they want to add.
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Old 2011-10-16, 13:35   Link #6563
Krono
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
So it was a MUCH BETTER idea to knock her out and leave her to be found by enemies by herself. Now I see why Cana was only seen drinking, she lacked the brain power to do anything other than "Lift beer mug, swallow, repeat"
Really now, I went back to read that chapter and while Lucy, Cana and Gray did agree to split up to find the rest of the 7 kin, she also paired up with Lucy out of her will. If her plan was to find the grave all along then she could have asked Lucy the clue and left alone or suggest splitting up with Lucy or SOMETHING.
Simply leaving alone wouldn't work, as Lucy would try and keep her from leaving, and she'd end up actually fighting Lucy. Or Lucy would go get Gray for back up, and then Gray would learn were the grave was, and depending on how things worked out, could even make it there first.

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Plus...why in the hell would they continue the exam while under attack by an enemy guild?
They weren't. Cana was so focused on her goal that she was being irrational.

Quote:
Personally what she did was no better than what Luxus did, but on a smaller scale. She left a fellow friend and guild member unconscious while the island was being attack by powerful enemy mages...it's like slapping her with some handcuffs and hanging her from a tall pole with a large sign "Hey I'm weak and defenseless" AND she basically put her own wishes above the rest of the guild's safety by not helping them fight the enemy.
Yeah, why do you think she broke down crying at Mavis's grave as the realization hit her? Why do you think she specifically called it "betraying your comrades" when apologizing to Lucy later?


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But hey! It's all good cause she had that little redemption moment when she found what she was looking for. That solves everything! I mean Luxus wasn't kicked out of FT cause he had a similar redemption moment after the fig...oh wait he was exiled? But he felt sorry for what he did! Doesn't that fix everything in FT world? Oh just for Cana? Oh yea cause she still needed the big reveal "I am your daughter" thing right? Oh dangit why couldn't Luxus be Mira's unknown son? Screw it being physically impossible, atleast he could still use the big reveal and stay in the guild.
Explain to me why FT peeps still trust the bitch when she clearly puts her selfish wishes above everyone's lives...Oh yea...the great power of friendship forgives everything...
There's vast order of magnitudes of difference between what Laxus did, and what Cana did. Cana talked one fellow guild member into going off on his own, and put her ally to sleep and left her defenseless in a hostile environment. All more or less done in the heat of the moment.

Laxus took hostage and threatened to murder just over half a dozen of his guildmates, forced the rest to fight one another, took the entire town hostage threatening to lay waste to it, specifically ordered Fried to kill the remaining active members, and eventually tried to personally kill everyone himself. All more or less premeditated, planned days in advance as part of a coup d'etat attempt.

Cana when she couldn't get what she wanted realized what she'd done and rushed to rectify it at the risk of her own life.

Laxus when he couldn't get what he wanted, kept going, and just kept escalating, and even when victory was impossible still kept fighting until he was beaten unconscious.

Only one of these requires being thrown out of the guild no matter what, and that's the one Laxus did. Cana's is the sort of thing that can be over looked as long as it worked out okay in the end.

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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Some of them had bits of development. Remember the first "arc" of the entire series, right after Lucy joins up? About Macao and Romeo? Some of the rest have had bits of development here and there, like with Reedus and the time he took Lucy off to protect her during the Phantom Pain arc?

For those who are wondering just how many characters in this series have received development, they should take a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ail_characters

And even that doesn't describe everything we know about them. Mashima has done quite a number. Even if we just focus on the ones on the island, that's still a considerable number to have developed over the course of this series.
I think you missed my point. Yeah some of them have received some development, there's more characterization scattered around in characters in Fairy Tail than a lot of detractors are willing to give it credit for. But the characters left at the guild are just background characters. They're just fleshed out enough for them to be extras, to keep the 100 person guild from feeling like it's only a dozen or so people. They haven't been developed beyond that to avoid the problems of trying to focus on loads and loads of characters regardless of how consequential they actually are. As such characters like Jet, Droy, Vijeeter, Nab, Max, Laki, Warren, and Wakaba just don't have enough to them to carry 10-20 chapters by themselves. Jet and Droy for example, have "obsessed with Levy" as pretty much their sole trait with "weaklings" their only other possible trait. Mashima could build them up, but it'd take at least 10-20 chapters to build them to the point where they could hold an arc on their own merits. Which of course in this situation is something of a catch-22.

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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
Thing is though, with as many as 8 major arcs, there is actually A LOT of time for some other characters to get some more focus. Give Ezra and gray a break and you free up 2 more spaces for some of the other characters to get some significant panel time and get some good exposure. Fairy tail has become rather boring because we get the same characters fighting their battles and almost always ending with the power of friendship... give those other characters some time and it might feel a whole lot less fomulaic. Hell we don't even need only the strong characters; as we've seen one piece, even weaker characters can still make for a good fight... so instead just S and A mages maybe we could give some significant time to the B and C mages
The problem there is that Gray and Erza are main characters, just like Natsu, Lucy, and Happy, and of course the manga is going to center on the main characters. So there's a fairly low limit on the ability to leave them out of an arc. Particularly after the Phantom Lord arc where they formally formed a team. So while people can be added on, they can't really just swap Gray for Max, and Erza for Laki and have it be natural to the flow of the story.

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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Actually, older. Natsu and Lucy are 17. I think Gray is similar, and Erza a bit older. Mirajane and Elfman would be older still. I think there are cards with stats floating around. Which I kinda like; it's refreshing to see people acting their ages.
Yeah, more or less. Since people seem to be slightly confused, and don't want to look things up themselves, here's a quick rundown of the known post timeskip ages:

06 years old: Happy, Charle
12 years old: Wendy
17 years old: Lucy, Lisanna, Levy, Juvia
18 years old: Gray, Cana, Elfman
19 years old: Erza, Mirajane
20 years old: Fried, Evergreen
22 years old: Bixlow
23 years old: Vijiteer, Laxus, Eve
24 years old: Max, Sherry
25 years old: Jet, Droy, Alzack, Bisca, Laki, Leon
27 years old: Nab, Hibiki, Ren
30 years old: Warren
34 years old: Reedus, Jura
36 years old: Ichiya
43 years old: Macao, Wakaba
45 years old: Gildarts
88 years old: Makarov

Natsu, Gajeel, Pantherlily, Romeo, Ultear, and Jellal's ages are unknown. Though Natsu and Gajeel seem to be treated as the same age as Gray and Elfman, Ultear and Jellal should be the same age as, or slightly older than, Erza, and Romeo should be 12-13.

Also while we're on the subject of ages, I think I mentioned this here before, but just in case:

Years/ages people made S-Class:

X782: Mystogan (age unknown)
X781: Mirajane (age 16)
X780: Erza (age 15)
X778: Laxus (age 17)
X???: Gildarts (age unknown)

Cana's been trying, and failing since X780.

and the drinking age if Fiore is age 15, but Cana started drinking at age 13.

You can probably consider age 15 to be the age of adulthood in Fiore as well, though the age of employment seems to consist of "Do you have some variation of parents caring for you? No? Welcome to the workforce."
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Old 2011-10-16, 18:23   Link #6564
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by Krono View Post
There's vast order of magnitudes of difference between what Laxus did, and what Cana did. Cana talked one fellow guild member into going off on his own, and put her ally to sleep and left her defenseless in a hostile environment. All more or less done in the heat of the moment.

Laxus took hostage and threatened to murder just over half a dozen of his guildmates, forced the rest to fight one another, took the entire town hostage threatening to lay waste to it, specifically ordered Fried to kill the remaining active members, and eventually tried to personally kill everyone himself. All more or less premeditated, planned days in advance as part of a coup d'etat attempt.

Cana when she couldn't get what she wanted realized what she'd done and rushed to rectify it at the risk of her own life.

Laxus when he couldn't get what he wanted, kept going, and just kept escalating, and even when victory was impossible still kept fighting until he was beaten unconscious.

Only one of these requires being thrown out of the guild no matter what, and that's the one Laxus did. Cana's is the sort of thing that can be over looked as long as it worked out okay in the end.
Fair point

But personally I still don't like her
I really hope she just fades away into background character status because if she turns main characterish I'll buy a plane ticket and personally go to Japan to punch Mashima. Then punch him for a few other reasons...
She regrets it and apologized...fine, but if I was Guild Master I would kick her out, even if just temporarily.

The thing is, the big reveal about her father and the sweet moment where she told Gildartz was ruined for me...I spent the whole chapter going "Meh" and only laughed a bit because Gildartz is awesome, had the father been any other I would probably skip the chapter. Her actions ruined her character for me and now everything that relates to her will be met with a "meh" and a half because I no longer care for her character.
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Old 2011-10-16, 18:46   Link #6565
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
Fair point

But personally I still don't like her
I really hope she just fades away into background character status because if she turns main characterish I'll buy a plane ticket and personally go to Japan to punch Mashima. Then punch him for a few other reasons...
She regrets it and apologized...fine, but if I was Guild Master I would kick her out, even if just temporarily.

The thing is, the big reveal about her father and the sweet moment where she told Gildartz was ruined for me...I spent the whole chapter going "Meh" and only laughed a bit because Gildartz is awesome, had the father been any other I would probably skip the chapter. Her actions ruined her character for me and now everything that relates to her will be met with a "meh" and a half because I no longer care for her character.
You know... instead of complaining about things you can't control and a character who won't go away just because you want her to... why don't you go do something productive like re-read the series for clues Mashima actually used proper foreshadowing somewhere instead of making up plot twists on the spot?
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Old 2011-10-16, 18:56   Link #6566
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Y'know thinking about it, there's another reason I'm annoyed with the time skip... namely that mashima used the number 7, but here it was just a coincidence...
Before the time skip we had a background story of "about 7 years ago, on 7-7-777, the dragons disappeared and sometime during the same year Lucy's mother died"... all the 7's seemed like they were adding up to some kind of conspiracy... but its seems that first 7 was likely a coincidence just like this second 7 which is not connected to the dragons... just really bugs me. you want to put together a prophecy/conspiracy then its annoying to include such coincidences just because you love the number 7 so much

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Originally Posted by Krono View Post
The problem there is that Gray and Erza are main characters, just like Natsu, Lucy, and Happy, and of course the manga is going to center on the main characters. So there's a fairly low limit on the ability to leave them out of an arc. Particularly after the Phantom Lord arc where they formally formed a team. So while people can be added on, they can't really just swap Gray for Max, and Erza for Laki and have it be natural to the flow of the story.
Sure they can. Oda did it with one piece and it worked out great. He had every main character aside from Luffy sit out for like 70 chapters. Nothing at all says that every main character must be in every single arc. Especially not when they didn't really have such an important role in that arc
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Old 2011-10-16, 19:19   Link #6567
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
You know... instead of complaining about things you can't control and a character who won't go away just because you want her to... why don't you go do something productive like re-read the series for clues Mashima actually used proper foreshadowing somewhere instead of making up plot twists on the spot?
What plot twists did I make up?

Also reading manga is not a very productive activity xD
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Old 2011-10-16, 19:45   Link #6568
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What plot twists did I make up?
Not you. Mashima.
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Old 2011-10-16, 20:02   Link #6569
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Originally Posted by Krono View Post
Simply leaving alone wouldn't work, as Lucy would try and keep her from leaving, and she'd end up actually fighting Lucy. Or Lucy would go get Gray for back up, and then Gray would learn were the grave was, and depending on how things worked out, could even make it there first.

You're saying Lucy would have... fought Cana to prevent her from going to the grave?

"Let's split up Lucy" *run*

"NO! Taurus, get her!"

Or

"let's go to the grave Lucy, as long as we are just walking around randomly we may as well head in that direction"

"NO! Sagittarius, shoot her!"


Keep in mind, Lucy was already talking casually about where the grave was, and they were not already headed anywhere in particular. Going to the grave is just as good as going anywhere else. And Lucy was fully committed to helping Cana win.

Instead, Cana decided to knock Lucy out where an enemy could easily have killed her, so she could go the grave alone. As I've said before, Cana should obviously be kicked out of the guild for that. EXCEPT, that it makes no sense, so it is probably best to pretend it didn't happen.
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Old 2011-10-16, 21:12   Link #6570
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I guess the arthor just doesn't want Wendy to grow up
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Old 2011-10-17, 05:11   Link #6571
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namely that mashima used the number 7, but here it was just a coincidence...
Except we don't know whether it is yet. There's plenty of time for the meaning of it to be shown or explained.

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Oda did it with one piece and it worked out great.
So because one writer did it that must mean Mashima must? This might shock you, but I really don't give a toss about One Piece.
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Old 2011-10-17, 09:34   Link #6572
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
Fair point

But personally I still don't like her
I really hope she just fades away into background character status because if she turns main characterish I'll buy a plane ticket and personally go to Japan to punch Mashima. Then punch him for a few other reasons...
She regrets it and apologized...fine, but if I was Guild Master I would kick her out, even if just temporarily.

The thing is, the big reveal about her father and the sweet moment where she told Gildartz was ruined for me...I spent the whole chapter going "Meh" and only laughed a bit because Gildartz is awesome, had the father been any other I would probably skip the chapter. Her actions ruined her character for me and now everything that relates to her will be met with a "meh" and a half because I no longer care for her character.
I have a feeling she will start to be more prevelant in the future arcs than she has been in the past for a couple reasons. The first reason is that we just got a ton of background story on her and almost an arc centered on her just now. Very doubtful an author does all that and then just tosses her in the background again as a "heavy drinker" The second reason I believe she will be used more is that I recently heard that originally Hiro had planned on having Lucy use Card Magic like Cana does, but decided against it since a lot of other people have done that. The fact that he had planned on using card magic makes me think he has many ideas and woudl like to use this card magic. Thus since Cana is the one who uses that type of magic I can see her being used more often.
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Old 2011-10-17, 15:36   Link #6573
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I doubt if she will ever become a particularly significant character. She was barely more important than FT's faceless members before and her story with Gildarts only added a little more depth to the arc so that it wouldn't be just a plain battle royale. Compared to Gray and Lucy's backgrounds which have been explored over several arcs, or Erza who had an entire arc dedicated to her, Cana's history was very briefly touched on.
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Old 2011-10-17, 15:46   Link #6574
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http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/20...mx-d4cw6xj.png

i'm sorry boys ... if already saw it. ^^'
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Old 2011-10-17, 17:09   Link #6575
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http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/20...mx-d4cw6xj.png

i'm sorry boys ... if already saw it. ^^'
This is godly
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Old 2011-10-17, 17:40   Link #6576
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I guess the arthor just doesn't want Wendy to grow up
No, but he did want Romeo to grow up enough for Wendy. Don't believe me? Just watch - oh yes, I called it here first - Romeo & Wendy as the next Gen couple. Unless another brat joins up and the three form a team.
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Old 2011-10-17, 21:55   Link #6577
AdventSleeper
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Please tell me that this timeskip had some sort of purpose other than seeing some insignificant members change.

Well, we'll see what has happened with the world in later chapters. I really did want to see major changes in the guild itself though, but now it seems it'll be nearly the same thing.
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Old 2011-10-18, 23:25   Link #6578
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I think it was made to make enemys stronger or sth
Not sure tho
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Old 2011-10-19, 03:56   Link #6579
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Please tell me that this timeskip had some sort of purpose other than seeing some insignificant members change.
We haven't seen the effect the time skip has had on the council or Zeref yet. Hold your horses.
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Old 2011-10-19, 10:14   Link #6580
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I doubt Ultear and Meldy won't not resurface in the future. And maybe Ultear will even cut her hair to closer resemble her mum.

I also wonder what became of Rusty and Kain. Last I checked, they were still alive and whatnot, but I don't see as much of a reason for them to come back. Then again, I'm still iffy on Ultear and Meldy too.
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