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Old 2012-08-05, 20:04   Link #9321
Randrak42
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I wonder...Gajeel + 3 months training + Second Origin

Oh yea baby
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Old 2012-08-05, 20:29   Link #9322
Tempest35
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Probably be the same as SSJ Trunks (just after he diced Freiza and King Cold) fighting SSJ Goku - sword vs finger... I remember my jaw hitting the ground when I saw that the first time...
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Old 2012-08-05, 20:44   Link #9323
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Originally Posted by vansonbee View Post
I never quite understood it, but Natsu can use thunder anytime? I thought he needed actual thunder to absorb and use.
Natsu can use lightning-fire any time. After have used it accidentally thanks to Laxus, he figured out how to lightning into his fire on his own. Remember, it's theoretically possible for any mage to learn any spell, and all the characters should be plenty capable of picking up new tricks, particularly ones that relate to their own power.
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Old 2012-08-05, 22:24   Link #9324
vansonbee
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Originally Posted by Tempest35 View Post
Okay, so even if all 2nd Origin did was give Natsu more MP, it obviously does a lot. You saw how much he was struggling when undergoing the 2nd Origin proceedure - he had that much potential still unlocked inside him.

I see it as this: his total MP has doubled/tripled but his move/skill list MP cost hasn't. It still takes the same amount of MP to activate his magic as before, but now he can put a 2x/3x into it and not worry about exhausting his total MP.
That make sense's that SO power-up him up, but is it physically or magical powers? It seem the stronger the magic power is (or given to him), Natsu physical stats sky rockets. The way Ultear showed us in her little explanation images. OS is like a secondary power source, than the main source, everyone uses daily. Finally, I just gotten off reading a certain post at OM forums, a user establish that OS (in Ultear words), "evolves" the users container (whatever that means) and in another panel, she states "I can raise your level of ability".

Spoiler for Source of word, is from Flaremmm@OM. ty:


Lmk what you guys think about all this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krono View Post
Natsu can use lightning-fire any time. After have used it accidentally thanks to Laxus, he figured out how to lightning into his fire on his own. Remember, it's theoretically possible for any mage to learn any spell, and all the characters should be plenty capable of picking up new tricks, particularly ones that relate to their own power.
Thanks.
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Old 2012-08-05, 22:37   Link #9325
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Originally Posted by vansonbee View Post
That make sense's that SO power-up him up, but is it physically or magical powers? It seem the stronger the magic power is (or given to him), Natsu physical stats sky rockets. The way Ultear showed us in her little explanation images. OS is like a secondary power source, than the main source, everyone uses daily. Finally, I just gotten off reading a certain post at OM forums, a user establish that OS (in Ultear words), "evolves" the users container (whatever that means) and in another panel, she states "I can raise your level of ability".
It's magical powers that it increased. What you're forgetting is that a lot of mages use magic to boost physical abilities (i.e. magic swordsmen), and Natsu and other dragon slayers use their magic to boost their physical stats (remember "a dragon's constitution" is part of their magic). So a wizard getting a massive increase in magical power is likely to see some boost in physical power if they were doing anything to augment their physical abilities with magic.
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Old 2012-08-05, 23:57   Link #9326
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Hn, sure, I got time.

For the first comment on 'Raising One's Ability', that was most likely a generic term for it. Ultear most likely meant that their overall ability will be raised by unlocking the 2nd Origin. It's the same as working out. If you increase the muscle mass of your body, you raise it's ability to do more streneous work over a longer period of time.

For Lucy, her boost came in the obvious fact that she could summon 2-3 at a time and even have them unsion raid their attacks. It's not something that we didn't think she could do before - she summoned all of her Stellar Spirits momentarily beforehand and she also casted that Stellar Spirit Ultimate Spell as well. I think the reason she can't do it now is because her mental limiters are in place whereas Hibiki probably overrode her limiters so that she could cast the spell against Angel.

As for the 2nd comment on evolving the container... The closest thing I can think of is this:

Say that you had a v4 engine in your car. It works fine and all. But one day you see your friend who has a v6 and you look at the engine size and it's not that much bigger than your v4's engine. Now, along comes Ultear and she says that your engine isn't utilizing the space well enough, so she'll use her Time Arc to not only make your v4 into a v6, but also expand your gas tank to compensate. Now, to do that realistically, you need to rip out the engine and rearrange some things under the hood as well as get a new fuel tank as well. Lots of taking apart stuff. Now you know why Ultear said it might be very painful...her spell was probably redesigning their bodies from the inside out, hence why it hurt so much. Could they have reached that on their own? Maybe in three months of hard training...

The way that Ultear spoke of the Second Origin, it sounds as if it is still a relavtively new idea for the times that they are in. That and it's probably something that Mashima thought of just to give the characters their power-up before the GMG. So please take the Second Origin bit with a grain of salt, it probably won't be mentioned again after this tournament.
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Old 2012-08-06, 01:42   Link #9327
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Originally Posted by vansonbee View Post
I was at another forum. Someone pointed out that Second Origin, only widen Natsu magical container and not his physical stats.

A lot of people have been complaining about Natsu being overpowered vs. the Sabertooth guys. Certain groups defend Natsu that he is beating them via "second origin", but like I stated above, it does not boost physical stats. This is either inconsistency by the author or ST was just hype up and they beleive themselves badass. Other than the Natsu issue, barely no one was hard on Gajeel, because of his training.

and Natsu has always been slightly above Gajeel and maybe after the 3 month training, he has finally reach Natsu status! :O

Regarding Erza. I was sadden, someone paint her fight against the 100 monsters in a negative light. She did not any type of power up's, but this certain poster was still ranting at her, for beating them. I was bit shock, because those 100 monsters, has no feats, except the weakest, breaking a pile of rocks... so Erza beating them all was plausible.

Let me know what you guys think ^

I never quite understood it, but Natsu can use thunder anytime? I thought he needed actual thunder to absorb and use.
It was shown after the chapter X791, that during a battle with the guy who uses sand (cant remember his name right now), he was telling Natsu that he couldn't compete with anyone now and Natsu went TFD mode and used a roar attack to scare the shit out of him, the drawback is that it took up all his magic energy, so I believe for it to be effective, he would have to mix it with Dragon force, but I have a feeling Natsu is gonna whip out TFD mode next chapter, whaddya you guys think?
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Old 2012-08-06, 07:00   Link #9328
Tempest35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vansonbee View Post

Regarding Erza. I was sadden, someone paint her fight against the 100 monsters in a negative light. She did not any type of power up's, but this certain poster was still ranting at her, for beating them. I was bit shock, because those 100 monsters, has no feats, except the weakest, breaking a pile of rocks... so Erza beating them all was plausible.

Let me know what you guys think ^
Y'know, I had completely overlooked this part of your post...? Must have ignored it on the fundamental reason that it mentioned something that was negative to Erza...

Erza solo'ed an entire unknown dungeon with 99 monsters and one S-class boss. Yes, there were a lot of weak monsters but this was in a dungeon-type settting - it was their lair. She didn't know the particular layout, she didn't know the location of said monsters, she didn't know their particular capabilities, and thanks to her boast, she restricted herself to a one-time go.

If you are familiar with the dungeon style games, where you have to solo an instance/a level full of monsters to get to the other side, then you'd know how hard it is to fight in a brand new location where you don't even have the benefit of a map or having the monsters drop extra HP or MP potions to help you on your way. Only those who are extremely good with their character, have very good gear, or done that level so many times, they know what to expect, can do something even close to repeating that feat. And the kicker is that the boss monster is a random encounter - meaning it can show up at any time.

It wasn't the level of the monsters that was the tough part to overcome, it was the randomness of their order that was the tough part. In each room, she didn't know what group(ing) she were going to get. There was the element of being ambushed and walking into their traps that had to occur too.

So, whoever it was that said Erza's feat was easily doable wasn't thinking of the other elements that went into her challenge and subsequent victory.
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Old 2012-08-06, 09:00   Link #9329
Amata Sora
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Hey guys, I take back what i said, apparently, after Natsu getting his second origin released, TFD mode no longer strains him, which means Sting and Rogue are about to get their asses handed to them

Last edited by Amata Sora; 2012-08-06 at 09:14.
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Old 2012-08-07, 08:35   Link #9330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest35 View Post
Y'know, I had completely overlooked this part of your post...? Must have ignored it on the fundamental reason that it mentioned something that was negative to Erza...

Erza solo'ed an entire unknown dungeon with 99 monsters and one S-class boss. Yes, there were a lot of weak monsters but this was in a dungeon-type settting - it was their lair. She didn't know the particular layout, she didn't know the location of said monsters, she didn't know their particular capabilities, and thanks to her boast, she restricted herself to a one-time go.

If you are familiar with the dungeon style games, where you have to solo an instance/a level full of monsters to get to the other side, then you'd know how hard it is to fight in a brand new location where you don't even have the benefit of a map or having the monsters drop extra HP or MP potions to help you on your way. Only those who are extremely good with their character, have very good gear, or done that level so many times, they know what to expect, can do something even close to repeating that feat. And the kicker is that the boss monster is a random encounter - meaning it can show up at any time.

It wasn't the level of the monsters that was the tough part to overcome, it was the randomness of their order that was the tough part. In each room, she didn't know what group(ing) she were going to get. There was the element of being ambushed and walking into their traps that had to occur too.

So, whoever it was that said Erza's feat was easily doable wasn't thinking of the other elements that went into her challenge and subsequent victory.
You give the other pkwer houses no credit. A few others could have done it as well. Even manly man could have.
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Old 2012-08-07, 20:47   Link #9331
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its not surprising that TFD got boosted by second origin the real question i have is does it allow natsu to awaken Dragon Force easily like Sting and Rogue. But another question has to be asked is what is the deal with Lector and Frosh and is it as i suspect related to their original dragons
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Old 2012-08-07, 20:56   Link #9332
Qilin
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Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
You give the other pkwer houses no credit. A few others could have done it as well. Even manly man could have.
When you put it that way, it becomes pretty clear that the contest itself was a poorly-designed one. As such, I don't think the fault lies with Erza, but rather with the organizers who came up with the match in the first place.
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Old 2012-08-07, 21:06   Link #9333
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When you put it that way, it becomes pretty clear that the contest itself was a poorly-designed one. As such, I don't think the fault lies with Erza, but rather with the organizers who came up with the match in the first place.
i dont think thats it either actually i think the problem is that none of you take credit away from the S class characters when they suffer yet degrade natsu because of the MC designation. Before Ultears power up Natsu managed to take out Erigor who was the head of a Dark Guild took out Yuuka the wave whose an anti-magic wizard. Beat Cobra whose a member of one of the strongest dark guilds in Fiore and also fought evenly with and defeated Jellal after he fused with Seigrane whose clearly stated as one of the 10 wizard Saints not to mention he defeated Zancrow so Natsu by himself has defeated 2 members of some of the strongest dark guilds in the world. Erza or Laxus does something amazing u guys pretty much suck up to them. Yes the contest was poorly designed but still i doubt u guys would give natsu the same credit. Trust me if he could defeat Azuma and Cobra without 2nd origin he can defeat Sting.
Separate theory do u guys think its possible that the knight guy is a part of Tartaros the final of the 3 massive dark guilds
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Old 2012-08-07, 23:45   Link #9334
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Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
You give the other pkwer houses no credit. A few others could have done it as well. Even manly man could have.
Just because he managed to outlast Bacchus in a stand-up fight doesn't mean he could have finished that 'Pandemonium' challenge.

And it's not a question of giving them credit - Erza just went first. I can acknowledge that at least half of them could have gotten 51 monsters on their first try. Could Jura have beaten all the monsters? Pretty safe to say 'yes', he definitely could have.
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Old 2012-08-08, 05:42   Link #9335
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Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190 View Post
i dont think thats it either actually i think the problem is that none of you take credit away from the S class characters when they suffer yet degrade natsu because of the MC designation. Before Ultears power up Natsu managed to take out Erigor who was the head of a Dark Guild took out Yuuka the wave whose an anti-magic wizard. Beat Cobra whose a member of one of the strongest dark guilds in Fiore and also fought evenly with and defeated Jellal after he fused with Seigrane whose clearly stated as one of the 10 wizard Saints not to mention he defeated Zancrow so Natsu by himself has defeated 2 members of some of the strongest dark guilds in the world. Erza or Laxus does something amazing u guys pretty much suck up to them. Yes the contest was poorly designed but still i doubt u guys would give natsu the same credit. Trust me if he could defeat Azuma and Cobra without 2nd origin he can defeat Sting.
Look, I never said anything about Natsu. All I said was that the contest was a poorly designed one, but since you're pulling me into the discussion, let me just give my two cents on the matter.

One of the biggest reasons why Natsu gets a lot of hate is because a good deal of his supposed victories over powerful characters were brought about by some kind of deus ex machina. I'm particularly talking about his victories against Gerard (or however you spell his name), Zero, and possibly Hades. I'm not going to go in deeper since I'm not all that invested in the universe, but I will say that such developments are aesthetically unpleasing from a writing point of view.
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Last edited by Qilin; 2012-08-08 at 05:56.
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Old 2012-08-08, 07:10   Link #9336
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Same goes for the power level challenge, most of the FT members that were in the 2 teams could break 9999 too lol

like this
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Old 2012-08-09, 13:00   Link #9337
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I was thinking and thought about something... What if Natsu at some point starts to reuse the power ups he gained?
The order of power ups:
Etherion-> Flame of Rebuke-> God Fire-> Lightning.
And the order in which he will start using them again:
Lightning-> God Fire-> Flame of Rebuke-> Etherion.

Natsu using Lightning is only the beginning!!! Mock my words but we WILL see Etherion Mode!!!!

ahh... now that is out of my system.... but in all seriousness I do wish he will gain all those powers as I see it a waste for all of it to be a 1 time thing.
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Old 2012-08-09, 13:07   Link #9338
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Both eating Etherion powered lacryma and eating Flame of Rebuke were just ways to make him go into Dragon Force Mode. In truth he only got like...3 power ups
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Old 2012-08-10, 02:58   Link #9339
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No manga this week right?
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Old 2012-08-10, 12:33   Link #9340
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As far as I know there's going to be no chapter this week.
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