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Old 2006-10-17, 20:47   Link #301
wingdarkness
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Wow this series seems rather interesting to say to least, so much so I'm getting the eps right now...I hope it's not as bishie as some of the pics suggest though...The plot seems rather convoluted and mysterious which I like...Hope it's as good as it looks...
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Old 2006-10-17, 23:10   Link #302
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Still no subs for Episode 3, it should be out within 12 hours though. I'm guessing.
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Old 2006-10-18, 05:51   Link #303
ImperialPanda
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Hmm I can see why this comes highly recommended. I sincerely hope this doesn't go the way of Gantz.

I'm still not feeling the whole "evil protagonist" though. Especially after getting a bit into the manga.... this guy just seems a little too badass.
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Old 2006-10-18, 06:05   Link #304
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From my point of view, Light is not supposed to be an evil protagonist. I believe this is the only point the manga readers dislike in the anime: They made Light like a maniac.
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Old 2006-10-18, 08:42   Link #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilith View Post
From my point of view, Light is not supposed to be an evil protagonist. I believe this is the only point the manga readers dislike in the anime: They made Light like a maniac.
What the heck is he supposed to be, then? Unless you would prefer to use "deranged" or "sociopathic" instead of "evil." The differences between the manga and the anime are really overexaggerated IMO. No matter how you slice it, Light is a maniac in both versions of the story. If anything, the anime's atmospheric presentation only serves to drive that point home (althought it should probably already have been made clear in the manga, heh).
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Old 2006-10-18, 08:56   Link #306
Lilith
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Weeell, as I said this is totally my personal opinion.

He's ridding the world from criminals, how can that be considered evil? It's just that his method is different. However he is somewhat at fault for he killed few innocenet people. Also, he's totally at fault when he's led astray from his origin plan because of his ego and God complex and now he's completely focused at getting rid of L.

What I didn't like in the anime is that the shown him as a maniac: he just wants to kill. He just want be a God. But that's not the case. Well, not from the way I see it.
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Old 2006-10-18, 09:30   Link #307
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I don't know if this specific quote was included in the anime, because I've been watching the raws and most of the dialogue goes right over my head. In the manga, however, this is what Light tells Ryuk in the very first chapter, during their first meeting:

Spoiler for Viz's translation:


Even setting aside the God complex, the fact that he says this when he's barely started using the Death Note speaks volumes about his character. My point is that the anime doesn't show Light to be any different than the manga. Whether or not you interpret his behavior to be maniacal is up to you, but his portrayal is essentially the same in both mediums. The anime did not make him into a maniac. If he seems to be one, it's because he was that way in the manga as well.
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Old 2006-10-18, 18:14   Link #308
Neux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilith View Post
From my point of view, Light is not supposed to be an evil protagonist. I believe this is the only point the manga readers dislike in the anime: They made Light like a maniac.
I would have to agree.

While, Light in anime and manga may say the same thing, the music, tone of voice, and camera angles suggest that Light is evil.

IMHO, in the manga, Light just wants to make the world a better place by only removing the criminals in the world, so only good people are left. L basically declared war on Light when he said he'll catch Kira, so Kira fought back to defend his ideal so he could change the world to a "better" place. Basically Kira believes that even if a few people are sacrificed, if he succeeds, a greater number of innocent people will benefit from his "better" world. In other words, the ends justifies the means.

IMHO, in the anime, Light gives off the impression that he has a God-complex, where he kills whoever he doesn't like. That he doesn't care about anyone but himself. I mean he's supposedly removing criminals for the sake of good people, not so that he could become God!
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Old 2006-10-18, 18:26   Link #309
Dagger
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Originally Posted by Neux View Post
IMHO, in the anime, Light gives off the impression that he has a God-complex, where he kills whoever he doesn't like. That he doesn't care about anyone but himself. I mean he's supposedly removing criminals for the sake of good people, not so that he could become God!
Then what does "I'll become the God of the new world" mean? Is it just some kind of euphenism? And if you read the spoiler-tagged quote from the manga in my previous post, it pretty much shows that, yes, Light does plan to kill whoever he doesn't like. The difference between you two and me is that you think "the music, tone of voice, and camera angles" add something that wasn't already present in the manga (though it should be noted, for the sake of fairness, that the anime uses the manga's exact camera angles quite frequently).

I'm of the opinion that those added effects only serve to bring out what was already present in the manga but didn't have as much of an impact because it was just words and still black-and-white art on a page. Of course it's easier to minimize or overlook his evilness when you, as the reader, have more room for interpretation--when you can't see him move or talk. But as far as I'm concerned, the anime doesn't add anything to his personality. It just makes it harder to deny that those dark elements--call it evilness or whatever else--are definitely a part of him.

Ohba also said that she considers him to be evil (she's quite harsh on her characters, though--he's hardly the only one she calls evil). I don't think that the author's beliefs or intentions have to be the final deciding answer, but it is something that deserves to be taken into consideration, if only briefly, in debates like this.
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Old 2006-10-18, 18:31   Link #310
hoon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neux View Post
IMHO, in the anime, Light gives off the impression that he has a God-complex, where he kills whoever he doesn't like. That he doesn't care about anyone but himself. I mean he's supposedly removing criminals for the sake of good people, not so that he could become God!
That is somewhat true, though. As L said before, Light is the type that doesn't like to lose and this personality probably conflicts with his sense of weird justice.

Spoiler:
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Old 2006-10-18, 20:22   Link #311
Neux
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Originally Posted by Magus IX View Post
Then what does "I'll become the God of the new world" mean? Is it just some kind of euphenism?
Well, I didn't interpret that literally, rather more in the metaphorical sense. According to Light's logic, if people believed that there was a God who was punishing evil-doers somewhere, then people would try to avoid doing bad things. So, Light doesn't want to be God, but rather, he needed to make the world believe there was a God somewhere punishing evil-doers. So, Light had to pretend to be that God so people wouldn't do bad things anymore, and that was why he said that: "I'll become the God...".
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Old 2006-10-18, 21:10   Link #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neux View Post
Well, I didn't interpret that literally, rather more in the metaphorical sense. According to Light's logic, if people believed that there was a God who was punishing evil-doers somewhere, then people would try to avoid doing bad things. So, Light doesn't want to be God, but rather, he needed to make the world believe there was a God somewhere punishing evil-doers. So, Light had to pretend to be that God so people wouldn't do bad things anymore, and that was why he said that: "I'll become the God...".
Well, that could be the case...but that's not it to me anyways. Remember Light listing off his credentials? Straight-A student and all? It's quite obvious that he believes himself to be above everyone else, that he should be the one to judge whether or not people deserve to live or not.

Adding to that, the scanlations I have of that scene has Light saying:

"I... will be... the God of this new world!"

while Viz's translation of the same scene has him saying:

"And I... will reign over a new world."

Those two versions of that same scene shows that he obviously intends to rule over the rest of the world once he rids it of all those who are unworthy. So yeah...he definitely wants to be God/ruler of the new world he's planning to create.
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Old 2006-10-18, 21:39   Link #313
myopius
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The Viz translations edited all the places where he referenced godhood, IIRC.
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Old 2006-10-18, 21:53   Link #314
Dark`
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The Viz translations edited all the places where he referenced godhood, IIRC.
Most of it I think, but not quite all. Right after Lind L. Tailor calls Kira/Light evil, there is a slight mention on Light's part about being a God, in the Viz translation.

"I am righteous!! I'm the hero who's liberating people from fear. I'm the savior who's going to be like a god of this perfect new world!"
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[14:22] <~lucifer> Then after I finish Genshiken S2 dvd rips, he's free game.
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Old 2006-10-18, 23:55   Link #315
hoon
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Spoiler:
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Old 2006-10-19, 02:31   Link #316
Psycho_Kenshin
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The greatness of Death Note is in the moral ambiguity of Light. Maybe he's good, maybe he's evil, its up to interpretation. I just think he's a hell of an intesting character.

Besides, if you saw Kenshin, you'd know "killing all the bad guys" and making a world of "only people he chooses"... well thats textbook evil. Light does things that are considered evil on any level, and the fact he justifies it makes him even more evil.

I still like him though.
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Old 2006-10-19, 08:46   Link #317
Neux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoon View Post
Spoiler:
Spoiler:


And Light may think he's smart and that he won't get caught, doesn't mean he think he is God who is invincible. Those are two different things.

Anyways, I prefer to call Light as "Chaotic Good' as opposed to "Evil" . His intentions of creating a better world is good, but his intentions of achieving that world is wrong.

"Chaotic good characters are strong individuals marked by a streak of kindness and benevolence. They believe in all the virtues of goodness and right, but they have little use for laws and regulations. Their actions are guided by their own moral compass which, although good, may not always be in perfect agreement with the rest of society"

Similarly, I guess I would call L "Lawful Good". Anyways, the thing that I liked about Death Note, at least in my interpretation, was that it wasn't another battle of good versus evil (L vs. Kira), but rather, a battle between two versions of "good": chaotic good versus lawful good. IMHO.

Last edited by Neux; 2006-10-19 at 09:16.
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Old 2006-10-19, 15:04   Link #318
Junpei
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Speaking of translations, anyone have any suggestions as to which group is doing the best subtitling job so far? I got the first two from Live-eviL because I've gotten lots of shows from them before, but Toriyama's World is the first to release episode 3...
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Old 2006-10-19, 15:23   Link #319
Shabazza
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Same thought. I also wanted to ask for the better sub-group.

So far TW is the more comfortable one since they use different fonts for Ryuk and Light.
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Old 2006-10-20, 01:20   Link #320
Karnot
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Heh, TW wrote "boys pwn girls this round" in their sub, but their "win" came due to a fast and pretty bad raw for ep.3...everything has its price.
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