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Old 2006-08-07, 20:06   Link #21
Nightengale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dom33
1) Mobile Suit Gundam SEED and Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny
5) One Piece
7) Mobile Suit Gundam
14) Martian Successor Nadesico
15) Castle In The Sky: Laputa
16) Ghost In The Shell
18) Saint Seiya
19) Nausicaä Of The Valley Of The Wind
20) Hunter x Hunter
21) Keroro Gunsou
22) Bleach
23) Lupin III: The Castle of Cagliostro
24) Mobile Police Patlabor25) Full Metal Panic
26) Initial D
29) King Of Braves GaoGaiGar
31) Fist Of The North Star
32) Eureka 7
37) Top Wo Nerae 2
38) .hack
42) Future Boy Conan
43) Tenchi Muyo!
44) Yu Yu Hakusho
50) Captain Tsubasa
51) Turn A Gundam
53) Blood+
54) Ashita No Joe
57) Space Runaway Ideon
59) Super Dimensional Fortress Macross
61) Revolutionary Girl Utena
62) Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ
64) Sailor Moon
65) Mobile Suit Gundam 08th MS Team
66) Space Cruiser Yamato
68) Black Jack
71) Galaxy Express 999
72) Mobile Suit V Gundam
74) Aura Battler Dunbine
75) Doraemon
77) After War Gundam X
78) Crayon Shin-Chan
83) Hellsing
84) Slam Dunk
85) Grave Of The Fireflies
86) Giant Robot: The Day The Earth Stood Still
89) Heavy Metal L-Gaim
91) Mushishi
92) My Neighbor Totoro
97) Millennium Actress
Class. GSD shouldn't be 1, but it should definitely be somewhere up there. Seeing this list pleases me to no end. (( Even if the pleasure comes from seeing the people here crawl into denial of what is mainstream attraction. ))

Quote:
Originally Posted by srb
I don't want to accept what the mainstream thinks if this is how it's done.

I could see SEED up there, sure, somehow, but Destiny? That's just sick. Not even the staunchest GSD fans (not fanboys) could say that it deserves to be there. I say the votes are really for GS, but GSD is just clumped together with it. At least I hope so.

Seeing this certainly means it's time to go to bed.
You're being delusional. Contrary to whatever every pisses about GSD, the fact that 70% of GSD related products (( minus games and some models )) sold extremely well , some on par with SEED's which was a huge success and some better only helped to prove how popular and widely accepted the Cosmic Era is in mainstream.

You're not mainstream. Just admit it.

As for me, even though I'm a SEED + GSD fan, I don't think it really deserves top spot, but considering that it's likely GSD wouldn't last there forever, (( It may be famous, but it sure as hell haven't reached a certain status of eternal remembrance, like EVA and DBZ even with mainstream )), it doesn't really bother me.
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Old 2006-08-07, 20:18   Link #22
aeriolewinters
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Please do not underestimate the power of freedom(not the MS).Please bear that in mind. You are lucky you have more knowledge, but that doesn't mean anything if you do not share knowledge. I agree that Destiny probably shoudn't be there at #1, but this isn't an internet-only poll. This is a japan-only nationwide poll, I would be glad to complain if it were an internet survey done by Newtype. But it's not. Showing this type of sentiment over a mere poll whose targets are the mainstream isn't logical. And please respect freedom(not the MS).
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Old 2006-08-07, 20:25   Link #23
Nightengale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeriolewinters
Please do not underestimate the power of freedom(not the MS).Please bear that in mind. You are lucky you have more knowledge, but that doesn't mean anything if you do not share knowledge. I agree that Destiny probably shoudn't be there at #1, but this isn't an internet-only poll. This is a japan-only nationwide poll, I would be glad to complain if it were an internet survey done by Newtype. But it's not. Showing this type of sentiment over a mere poll whose targets are the mainstream isn't logical. And please respect freedom(not the MS).
Exactly. We whine over the ridiculous abundance of harem/bishoujo game/style over substance animes which sprouts like mushrooms, but the fact remains that their target audience (( which aren't us )) consumes those which leads to more being produced while we may spew at just the first episode and whine at why the hell are they still releasing.

Because it sells, and quality =/= popularity.

It's a world of difference that we must accept.
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Old 2006-08-07, 20:27   Link #24
Mr_Paper
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Unfortunately, given the readership of the magazines the poll was conducted in, the skewed results are understandable. Both magazines cater to the new and trendy or cultishly popular series. It's safe to assume their combined readerships don't go for the established classics that one sees on other 'greatest 100 anime series' polls.
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Old 2006-08-07, 20:31   Link #25
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeriolewinters
I agree that Destiny probably shoudn't be there at #1, but this isn't an internet-only poll. This is a japan-only nationwide poll, I would be glad to complain if it were an internet survey done by Newtype. But it's not. Showing this type of sentiment over a mere poll whose targets are the mainstream isn't logical. And please respect freedom(not the MS).
No offense, but you are obviously ignoring the facts.

This is anime, a media made only for Japan and the Japanese consumers (or, to a certain extent, general East-Asian consumers). I am sorry to burst your bubble, but we are hardly a target audience for a majority of anime goods created in Japan. Therefore, as much as they are concerned, our opinions mean only a little more than crap, to them.

Hell, despite the expansion of anime goods in the past few years, we are not even close to certain Asian countries, where anime culture is clearly rooted in every day life.

Face it, you are not mainstream.

- Tak (And yes, seeing GS/GSD on top of that list indeed puts a smile on my face)

Last edited by Tak; 2006-08-07 at 20:43.
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Old 2006-08-07, 20:49   Link #26
wingdarkness
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The fact that you say "probably" is insult enuff...OK it's a Newtype poll (atleast part of it)...Newtype is basically a street-trick for Bandai...They lumped both series together in a poll more teenage Japanese girls vote on than anything else (I think Kyo Kara Maou being 6th alltime is evidence enuff for that other than me also hearing that a while back)....Everyone here knows GSD doesn't deserve anywhere close to #1, but when hasn't CE characters and shows not been at or near the top of every Newtype sponsored poll in existence??? I'm fine with that...There is a distinct pattern there that tells me the mainstream isn't as "main" as you think it to be aeriolewinters^^...Insane super-young female fans of the CE vote on these polls more than a fair representation of Japan's population based on what I have seen...

Anyways I've seen 50 of the 100 titles..Thought it would be more, but whatever....

@cloudedge - Yu Yu is teh win for me...I love DBZ and One Piece with a passion, but YuYu has place in my heart that's hard to take away...Some animes have great storylines, some have great characters, others rely on action, humor, or horror. But very seldom do you get a shonen that incorporates all of these qualities effectively if not evenly...I just love that show...

@Tak -LMAO...You're putting a sword thru the heart of someone who agrees with you xD...
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Old 2006-08-07, 20:52   Link #27
Obi-Wan
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DBZ should be higher and Haruhi shouldn't even be on the list. I'm pissed about both of those results. Evangelion is good but definitely not worth of #2. This poll's voter constituency sucks major ass.
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Old 2006-08-07, 21:06   Link #28
MeggieMay
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Well lets not forget nationwide = Japan on this poll. IMO if you ran a nationwide poll in the U.S. you'd be lucky if any Gundam showed up on it

That said, I'm finding the response typical for a English language based internet anime fandom board . There is a unwillingness of English language fans to accept the fact that Gundam SEED and Gundam SEED Destiny are actually popular with the general Japanese public, when all signs point to that being just what it is. Online English language fandom* doesn't seem willing or able to accept that they are not the primary audience for Gundam.

However, Tak I think you are erring on the other side of the extreme here. While anime is first and formost for the Japanese audience I do think that usually the Japanese producers do care what other segments of anime viewership outside of Japan care about. The overseas market (both Asia and the Americas) is important to them and R1 is not an exception (I use R1 because it covers not only the U.S. but Canada). If Japan didn't care then they wouldn't be investing money into R1 companies (such as a recent deal that involved ADV Films) or co-producing shows with U.S. networks (such as IGPX, which was co-produced between Production IG and Cartoon Network).

IMO it's best to look at each show and/or production company individually when it comes to the issue of whether or how much a company cares how one of their shows is doing outside of Japan. In this particular case, Gundam SEED and Gundam in general, has been a rocky road for Bandai and Sunrise in R1. In the U.S. Gundam has never worked with a few exceptions (Gundam Wing and to a lesser extent G Gundam**) and the current mind set is that Gundam isn't ever going to work so who cares what the U.S. thinks about the franchise. On the other hand Canada (the other part of R1) does seem to like Gundam SEED so they haven't given up on Gundam as a whole and because R1 covers both countries they hopefully won't give up totally on the U.S. (because it isn't the most practical move to just release R1 to Canada, at least IMO).




*I like to say English Language fandom over specific countires because I see online posters, particuarly here at Anime Suki, who post in English but who are not from the U.S., Canada, or other countries where english is the primary language.


**The opinion Gundam is a bust in the U.S. is something that Cartoon Network is openly behind in promoting. To hear this line of thought from the people in charge, check out the ToonZone Podcast w/ Sean Akins & Jason DeMarco.
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Old 2006-08-07, 21:12   Link #29
Shinji103
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Okay, here is the major and final show-settler of the debate about the validity of this poll:

Who in their honest opinion thinks that GSD or GSEED is better, especially that much better, than original MSG?

Be informed that anybody who honestly replies that GSD or GSEED is that much better than MSG shall be hunted down, dragged into the streets, and shot.
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Old 2006-08-07, 21:18   Link #30
monster
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I say Gundam SEED is way better, in the overall viewing experience, than MSG.
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Old 2006-08-07, 21:25   Link #31
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness
@Tak -LMAO...You're putting a sword thru the heart of someone who agrees with you xD...
Oops, I guess I am just sadistic that way, huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeggieMay

However, Tak I think you are erring on the other side of the extreme here. While anime is first and formost for the Japanese audience I do think that usually the Japanese producers do care what other segments of anime viewership outside of Japan care about. The overseas market (both Asia and the Americas) is important to them and R1 is not an exception (I use R1 because it covers not only the U.S. but Canada). If Japan didn't care then they wouldn't be investing money into R1 companies (such as a recent deal that involved ADV Films) or co-producing shows with U.S. networks (such as IGPX, which was co-produced between Production IG and Cartoon Network).
Oh, don't get me wrong. Of course anime producers care about their markets, that is why they are expanding their sphere of 'influence' over here in North America and Europe.

However, besides generating an excess of income, we are not at a level where our opinions matter, yet.

In contrast, anime producers would care about the general East Asian market more simply because the latter has a stronger fanbase, and actually has a capacity to communicate with the authors, an ability which most of the people here simply lack.

- Tak
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Old 2006-08-07, 22:08   Link #32
Nightengale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103
Who in their honest opinion thinks that GSD or GSEED is better, especially that much better, than original MSG?
SEED was a better overall product than 0079. There, I said it.

GSD was better than 0079, in the aspect where GSD made me smile throughout the entire series non-stop and made me laugh more than Ouran/School Rumble/WWE's hilarious toilet humour could. In terms of presentation, 0079 was better, but not that very very very much better.

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Old 2006-08-07, 22:16   Link #33
cloudedge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness
@cloudedge - Yu Yu is teh win for me...I love DBZ and One Piece with a passion, but YuYu has place in my heart that's hard to take away...Some animes have great storylines, some have great characters, others rely on action, humor, or horror. But very seldom do you get a shonen that incorporates all of these qualities effectively if not evenly...I just love that show...
Yes yes! Yu Yu does incorporates all of those! and it'll always have a special place in my heart, since it's the first "manga" that got me hooked into the manga/anime fandom... And Yoshihiro Togashi is just such a genius (though he has no work ethics at all)

I also highly recommend it's ever translated a manga work by Yoshihiro Togashi named Level E, and his latest work Hunter x Hunter... HxH definately show that Togashi is an exceptional writer beyound a normal person's imagination. XD (though my all time favorite will still forever by YuYu~ Hiei ftw!)

Back on topic... I don't see why we get so worked up over these ranking... it's no different from those song charts on radio station and MTV... the ones on the top isn't always going to be the song you like or you think deserves a spot there, but oh well... a vote is a vote is a vote... I don't think Harper deserve to be Canada's P.M or Bush deserves to be US' president... and there isn't much we can do since we can't even vote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale
SEED was a better overall product than 0079. There, I said it.

GSD was better than 0079, in the aspect where GSD made me smile throughout the entire series non-stop and made me laugh more than Ouran/School Rumble/WWE's hilarious toilet humour could. In terms of presentation, 0079 was better, but not that very very very much better.

You can't see me, so try and shoot me.
Ok... (you can call me shallow from now on...) I am not going to say GSD is better than 0079... but what I will say is that, despite having 0079 sitting in my shelf for over 3 years, I have never wanted to watch it after seeing the few episods when my brother was watching it...
The main problem being, the animation is quite old, the pacing is rather slow in the beginning, and I cannot find a quite association/bond with the characters... Amuro in 0079 just doesn't make my heart melt like Cagalli and Shinn does...
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Old 2006-08-07, 22:59   Link #34
dom33
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0079 wasn't about make immature brats smile it was meant to be the the first real robot anime/war anime it was well written and feel sadness,happiness,regret,hate and i got a real view on war, 0079 had most of the emotional concepts that made future gundam series great!
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Old 2006-08-08, 00:20   Link #35
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I just can't get into the giant robot thing really, but gundam isn't too bad. Happy to see full metal alchemist up towards the top though. <3
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Old 2006-08-08, 00:26   Link #36
Shinji103
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Of course, I could have been speaking out of sarcasm there, so don't be smart-@$$es please. >.>

But still, I believe MSG is better than GSEED and GSD. Especially when you consider how revolutionary MSG was in its time. GSEED and GSD weren't anything really new like MSG was.
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Old 2006-08-08, 00:28   Link #37
Shinji103
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My sarcasm in that statemtn about MSG and GSEED/\GSD can be seen in my smiley face and tongue-sticking. If I had been serious, I wouldn't have put those there.

(sorry for the double-post, but it won't let me edit this into my previous post for some reason >.> )
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Old 2006-08-08, 01:10   Link #38
4Tran
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Some people seem to be over reacting here (and in other places on the Internet). First off, there's really no reason to be even upset over the subject: it's just a magazine poll. Next, it shows that among a certain Japanese magazine-reading population, Seed and Seed Destiny are very popular. This shouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone. It also tells us that the opinions of certain English-speaking Internet forums don't count for a lot when it comes to what Japanese fans may like. This also should have come as a surprise to anyone.

As for the rest:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103
Who in their honest opinion thinks that GSD or GSEED is better, especially that much better, than original MSG?
I think that both Seed and Destiny are significantly better than Mobile Suit Gundam. But these:
Originally Posted by dom33 "it was well written" and "i got a real view on war"
made me laugh.

After all, "White Base needs salt!".
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Old 2006-08-08, 02:28   Link #39
Nightengale
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Originally Posted by Shinji103
But still, I believe MSG is better than GSEED and GSD. Especially when you consider how revolutionary MSG was in its time. GSEED and GSD weren't anything really new like MSG was.
I was joking too, if you were offended in any way. I thought my smiley and John Cena references was obvious. >___<

But I do think that SEED is better than 0079, and no, I don't give a damn how revolutionary 0079 was. My policy in judging anime is that I never ever let any form of nostalgia and superior animation judge how I like my anime, so to me, every anime I compare is done on the assumption that they were done at the same time, with the only exception being that one anime parodies another, or is a direct remake of sorts.

Some may disagree with my way of evaluating anime, but that's me.
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Old 2006-08-08, 03:24   Link #40
flamingtroll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale
I was joking too, if you were offended in any way. I thought my smiley and John Cena references was obvious. >___<

But I do think that SEED is better than 0079, and no, I don't give a damn how revolutionary 0079 was. My policy in judging anime is that I never ever let any form of nostalgia and superior animation judge how I like my anime, so to me, every anime I compare is done on the assumption that they were done at the same time, with the only exception being that one anime parodies another, or is a direct remake of sorts.

Some may disagree with my way of evaluating anime, but that's me.
So in this case is SEED classified as a direct remake or should MSG be compared as a comtempary? And yet a comtemporary comparison that takes out the comparison of animation quality as a factor?
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