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Old 2010-05-29, 18:53   Link #2021
RisArk
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Quote:
Now, I'm confused. Who is the first, second, and third child again?
WHAT?! Rei is the first child, Shinji is the third (Clearly said back in 1.0), and Asuka was introduced as the second child.
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Old 2010-05-29, 19:20   Link #2022
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Originally Posted by bigdeath View Post
I doubt that every much, the "clever budget allocation" was more the result of trying to finish the show before they run out of money. If the show flopped it could have hurt the company quite a bit, wouldn't be the first show to try to be innovative and fail to make money. Lucky for us Eva caught on in a big way.
What I mean with budget allocation is the way they splashed out on the mecha action scenes and saved cash on the introspective scenes without making it look cheap. As a result the show had an almost OVA type animation feel to it.

The last episodes do appear to be strongly influenced by Gainax running out of funds but these episodes are not representative of the overall animation quality of the rest of the series (regardless of their artistic merit).
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Old 2010-05-29, 19:45   Link #2023
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Opps, I ah, thought it did look kind of cheap when I watched the series.......

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(The angel redesigns are a huge improvement)
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Old 2010-05-29, 21:03   Link #2024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bran View Post
...more important than how you understood, accepted and loved the original characters the way they were...
I dunno, I thought having that much EVA swag was an incredible achievement for a College student in the Philippines.

And for reference's sake, I understood the characters back then because, to put it lightly, I was a depressed, very angry, and often misunderstood teenager too. I can still empathize, even though I'm a well-adjusted (though still single) adult now, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying their current incarnations; my love for the series hasn't waned, but I guess you could say that I have grown up.

I agree with Yot-chan in this case; I reject dichotomies, and as such, much like a reversed Sam Vimes, I like TV series, its Renewal, the Extra-Canonical Supplementary Material, AND the Rebuild Movies all in equal measure.
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Old 2010-05-29, 23:28   Link #2025
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Originally Posted by bran View Post
Apparently owning more physical Eva related stuff is far more important than how you understood, accepted and loved the original characters the way they were and to feel them robbed off their emotions and turned into looney toons to be more lovable and easy to chew is just so wrong. I guess i won't believe in me i'll believe in you who believes i'm delusional.
I'll just stop here and hope the next 2 movies will make up for the loss.
Apparently someone thinks that there is only a certain way to understand, accept and love the original characters.

No single piece of work, in fact nothing in the universe is viewed the same by anyone.

And is owning more physical Eva relate stuff more important? Gainax will say yes, I'm sure they'll value fans who bought stuff more than fans who didn't.

I'm also sure they would like fans who can love both the original series and Rebuild. Anno himself would laugh at those who didn't like it, and maybe use more hate mail and death threats in the next Rebuild movie.

I love Rebuild as much as I love the original series. I watched and rewatched the series in Japanese, English, Chinese and Cantonese. And like many people, I did research on all the references.

Eva has tons of fans and always gaining more, too bad for those so called 'true' and 'hardcore' fans who cannot appreciate and understand the context of Rebuild, we don't care if you like it or not. Gainax themselves won't care whether you like it or not, they never cared about what fans think anyway, they're famous for that.
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Old 2010-05-30, 00:00   Link #2026
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Bri View Post
What I mean with budget allocation is the way they splashed out on the mecha action scenes and saved cash on the introspective scenes without making it look cheap. As a result the show had an almost OVA type animation feel to it.

The last episodes do appear to be strongly influenced by Gainax running out of funds but these episodes are not representative of the overall animation quality of the rest of the series (regardless of their artistic merit).
Though some have pointed out that even though there was less "animation", as there was less money to hire inbetweeners, the actual drawing quality improved. This is because the character-designer was forced to do the grunt work himself in order to save costs.
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Old 2010-05-30, 01:03   Link #2027
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I found the song that plays when 3rd impact starts to be pretty a interesting contrast to Komm Susser Todd and its associated scene in EOE.
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Old 2010-05-30, 01:15   Link #2028
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Originally Posted by RisArk View Post
WHAT?! Rei is the first child, Shinji is the third (Clearly said back in 1.0), and Asuka was introduced as the second child.
Ah, ok, that makes sense. I made a mistake and thought Gendo said to get rid of Asuka, as probably some others thought as well. Also, with the gruling smash-up she had, and the conversation about her body, I thought she was gone. I thought maybe she is now a person with an Angel's mind, so they were going to dispose of her.

Still, I can't shake the guy that pilots Eva 6 (or is it 8), from the moon, who claims to want to make Shinji happy this time for sure, like it is a reset and this is the second time around. Or was this the second time he met since the 2nd impact?
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Old 2010-05-30, 01:21   Link #2029
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
I found the song that plays when 3rd impact starts to be pretty a interesting contrast to Komm Susser Todd and its associated scene in EOE.
It's sort of because what was happening in Rebuild was fully voluntary; Shinji intentionally made Unit 1 fully awaken because it was the only way to gain enough power to separate Rei's psyche from the Angel's. Compared to the original End movie, where Selee forced Unit 1 to perform the acts via the rituals.
The 3rd impact started when the remain of the angel fused with Unit 1.

I can understand why Shinji is willing to do this; after he failed to save Asuka, he felt he needed to at least save Rei.

By the way... I have a hunch that the Asuka in the preview might be a clone. They were called "children" in the original story because Rei had multiple bodies. But what if Asuka could have her soul transferred too?
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Old 2010-05-30, 01:24   Link #2030
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
I found the song that plays when 3rd impact starts to be pretty a interesting contrast to Komm Susser Todd and its associated scene in EOE.
I would say Tsubasa wo Kudasai does mirror Komm Susser Todd nicely in that way, even though this particular version of the folk song does sound a tad similar to the latter.

And I found there was a English version of it by Susan Boyle when messing around youtube.

Spoiler for YT video:
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Old 2010-05-30, 01:31   Link #2031
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
By the way... I have a hunch that the Asuka in the preview might be a clone. They were called "children" in the original story because Rei had multiple bodies. But what if Asuka could have her soul transferred too?
And why they made a clone with a blinded eye?(look,Asuka wear eyepatch...)
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Old 2010-05-30, 01:33   Link #2032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormenk View Post
I would say Tsubasa wo Kudasai does mirror Komm Susser Todd nicely in that way, even though this particular version of the folk song does sound a tad similar to the latter.

And I found there was a English version of it by Susan Boyle when messing around youtube.

Spoiler for YT video:
They kinda do sound similar, but the resulting mood is different which the respective songs help reflect. EOE is more like,"Fuck the world, I don't need anyone" while rebuild is "Fuck the world, I need her" Which makes it all the more hilariously ironic since 3rd impact should set the "oh shit" response in viewers.

I also found Kaworu at the end to be kinda funny too; as if he were jealous or something and had to interrupt them.
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Old 2010-05-30, 01:34   Link #2033
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hmm... if they do something different, would they do shinji x rei at the end...

this would be so wrong yet feel so right...
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Old 2010-05-30, 01:39   Link #2034
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
They kinda do sound similar, but the resulting mood is different which the respective songs help reflect. EOE is more like,"Fuck the world, I don't need anyone" while rebuild is "Fuck the world, I need her" Which makes it all the more hilariously ironic since 3rd impact should set the "oh shit" response in viewers.

I also found Kaworu at the end to be kinda funny too; as if he were jealous or something and had to interrupt them.
Nicely said.

Kaworu's appearance was hilarious for me too. The theater subs had his lines as "I'll be the only one to make you happy" or "I'll make you happy this time", prompting someone behind me to call out f***ing gay.

And I always thought the reason why they were labeled children instead of child was due to engrish since iirc the manga corrected the term to child.
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Old 2010-05-30, 02:55   Link #2035
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I finally saw it tonight. I am not happy, just simply not happy. Rei's character was destroyed. Asuka's character was deformed, Mari really was pointless, and Shinji was fine until the concluding moments of the Zeruel fight, but then acted very uncharacteristically. Anno dumped all his suddenness apparently. Never before have the characters shared their thoughts and feelings with the other characters and the audience as much as in this movie.

Unnecessary amounts of fan service detected in this movie.

If I was rating the movie as an unbiased observer, I'd give it a 8.5. Unfortunately, the rating plummets into the 6.5-7.0 range because Evangelion has a lot to live up to.

I will write a more detailed review later.

Kid, if you're 18 now you were a baby subsisting on a diet of milk and subsolid foods when the original EVA was first released.

It has been 15 years and Hideaki Anno has changed, for the better. And so have all the fans who watched Evangelion at its debut or early on and have grown up 10-15 years later. The distance for you may only be a few small years, you probably do not realize how SIGNIFICANT the changes to the characters are to Anno and the series' fans after all this time.

Sure, some fans may be stuck in 1995 with the Evangelion drenched with existential dread, anxiety and angst. Anno has certainly moved on; as much as EVA TV was a manifestation of his psyche then, EVA Rebuild (note - rebuild, not remake) is a manifestation of his pscyhe now.

I loved 2.22, and I still love the original Eva. Can't wait for 3.0 and 4.0, and then have a mega collection and watch them all all over again!
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Old 2010-05-30, 02:58   Link #2036
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Has anyone noticed how Anno appears to have done more research on Christianity for these new movies?

He made the angel at the beginning of the movie the 4th angel, so that 3 angels had already come before. 3 angels...hmm, that sounds familiar, no? In Revelation, there are 3 angels that call out for God's people to leave Babylon. It's known as the 3 Angel's Message.

To further re-enforce this point, Anno changes the Adam's embryo to "The Key of Nebuchadnezzar", who was the King of Babylon. In Revelation, the people opposing God are part of "Babylon the Great". And this Babylon we have in Evangelion (SEELE) is also protecting "Lillith", which could be looked at as being a false Christ (it has a spear in it just like Jesus (and in the series, uses the same name as the mythical spear that punctured Jesus), and is leaking LCL instead of blood). So Lillith could be looked at similarly to the Antichrist, which during the reformation, many Christian's believed would be a supernatural being that would impersonate Christ to mislead the world.

Babylon (Seele) is hiding the Dead Sea Scrolls (just like the Babylon of Revelation attempts to keep God's word from being seen), and it's trying to become like God (Human Instrumentality), which is the very spirit of Babylon (as when in Daniel, Nebuchadnezzar in defiance to God, erects a golden statue to become God itself and prove his kingdom will last forever).

I'm not saying Evangelion is a Christian Allegory, I'm merely suggesting that Anno has actually put more thought into the symbols in his story this time around. It looks like he's really researched it all.

Where he takes it all this time, nobody knows.

Again, the above are all just some theory's and such that crossed my mind. Feel free to debate them or agree. I'm merely opening up a discussion.

Also, to the person who will probably try and post that quote from one of the crew that says they only used the symbols to make it look cool. I know already. And I actually agree. The TV series did only really use the symbols for the sake of looking cool. But this isn't the TV series. This is a new project with a changing storyline. So anything is possible at this point. Besides, I'm not saying anything is or isn't. I'm merely offering up some observations I've made.
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Old 2010-05-30, 03:06   Link #2037
arias
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
It's sort of because what was happening in Rebuild was fully voluntary; Shinji intentionally made Unit 1 fully awaken because it was the only way to gain enough power to separate Rei's psyche from the Angel's. Compared to the original End movie, where Selee forced Unit 1 to perform the acts via the rituals.
The 3rd impact started when the remain of the angel fused with Unit 1.

I can understand why Shinji is willing to do this; after he failed to save Asuka, he felt he needed to at least save Rei.

By the way... I have a hunch that the Asuka in the preview might be a clone. They were called "children" in the original story because Rei had multiple bodies. But what if Asuka could have her soul transferred too?
The Shinji/Asuka bond in this movie isn't as strong as it is in the TV series, and they still need a lot more time and development to bring it to where it was in the original. You get a strong sense that Asuka has feelings for Shinji, but not the other way around.

The Shinji/Rei arc is amazing, it's hard to tell how perverted this relationship is.. whether their attraction is romantic or driven entirely by the traces of mother-child. Even in the manga this see-saws (Shinji responds when asked if he and Rei were dating -- it's not a feeling of "like" or "want to go out".. she feels like a part of me that was torn away a long time ago), but this evolves just before the sacrifice arc, especially for Rei when her jealousy and selfish possessive desire was exposed by the angel. In Rebuild the romantic tension is heightened by the symbol of the walkman... but it's so hard to shake off the knowledge that Rei is a partial Yui rebuild..

I doubt Shinji wanted to save Rei so much primarily because of his failure with Asuka. Their connection in this movie was made plainly obvious and is really the driving force of the entire movie -- a person who does not care about what happens to him, or the world, or anyone else, but only wants to save someone he cares for... ultimately breaking the barriers of mortal existence and initiating the end of the world

There will be no Asuka clone.
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Old 2010-05-30, 03:09   Link #2038
Yot-chan
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Originally Posted by arias View Post
Kid, if you're 18 now you were a baby subsisting on a diet of milk and subsolid foods when the original EVA was first released.

It has been 15 years and Hideaki Anno has changed, for the better. And so have all the fans who watched Evangelion at its debut or early on and have grown up 10-15 years later. The distance for you may only be a few small years, you probably do not realize how SIGNIFICANT the changes to the characters are to Anno and the series' fans after all this time.

Sure, some fans may be stuck in 1995 with the Evangelion drenched with existential dread, anxiety and angst. Anno has certainly moved on; as much as EVA TV was a manifestation of his psyche then, EVA Rebuild (note - rebuild, not remake) is a manifestation of his pscyhe now.

I loved 2.22, and I still love the original Eva. Can't wait for 3.0 and 4.0, and then have a mega collection and watch them all all over again!
Actually, although I disagree with Reckoner's conclusions, I think he's done an excellent job of articulating why he dislikes 2.22.

And his arguments are totally valid, and totally understandable. And I for one respect him for getting his thoughts out there in a cogent way. So I don't think there's any need to slight him for being 18, or for disliking the movie. He clearly cares a lot about Eva, and has put a lot of thought into it.

I do wish he'd change his sig, but hey...you can't have everything, right?
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Old 2010-05-30, 03:23   Link #2039
arias
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Actually, although I disagree with Reckoner's conclusions, I think he's done an excellent job of articulating why he dislikes 2.22.

And his arguments are totally valid, and totally understandable. And I for one respect him for getting his thoughts out there in a cogent way. So I don't think there's any need to slight him for being 18, or for disliking the movie. He clearly cares a lot about Eva, and has put a lot of thought into it.

I do wish he'd change his sig, but hey...you can't have everything, right?

Whatever you think, I'm not slighting his age. Evangelion is really a realization of Hideaki Anno, this I'm sure everyone knows. And like all people, we change over time. Anno is now 50 years old this year, compared to 35 when he first directed EVA TV! And fans of Eva who could have digested it in some decent manner at its debut who were 13-25 are now 28-40 years old.

I think age and time are actually massive factors in understanding the significance of Rebuild of Evangelion and its place in the history and culture of anime.

The broken emotionality and deep-seated insecurity of the original EVA really led me to my first anxiety attack after finishing EoE, and obviously it's really awesome. But the kinds of problems manifested in the original EVA were also representative of the 4 year period in Anno's life where he felt he was a broken man... and I think the significant changes in undertones in Rebuild represents the answers or direction to where he took his life after that.
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Old 2010-05-30, 03:25   Link #2040
Archon_Wing
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Originally Posted by Tormenk View Post
Nicely said.

Kaworu's appearance was hilarious for me too. The theater subs had his lines as "I'll be the only one to make you happy" or "I'll make you happy this time", prompting someone behind me to call out f***ing gay.
Lol, I was thinking "dang that's the biggest cockblock ever"-- quite literally with that lance. And yes those lines are funny.

Well, I do think Rebuild has much better stuff planned for Kaworu.
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