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Old 2010-06-05, 21:56   Link #2141
Matt122005
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To add to my previous citing of Anno changing Evangelion symbols to match the Bible more, I'd like to add another.

Has anyone noticed something peculiar about the addition of the new MARK 06 piloted by Kaworu? Perhaps its name?

MARK 06....hmm....sounds familiar.

Maybe that's cause it sounds like the abbreviation of "The Mark of the Beast 666".

Also, why did Anno change Lilith's face? He now placed it on the new Mark 06.

This has huge biblical ramifications if you consider....

We see at the end of Movie 1 that there are a number of coffins on the moon that seem to be where the Angels are awakened. These coffins are being seemingly awakened by SEELE (which as my other post tried to prove, has been made by Anno to fit most of the descriptions of Babylon in Revelation) which theologically implies that the angels we see are NOT from God, but are a part of the fallen angels that Lucifer (Satan) has had on this Earth since the beginning. It also implies that SEELE (Babylon) is working together with these evil Angel's to bring about the needed requirements to enact their plan of becoming like God which falls in line with the Bible's descriptions. Add the fact that Anno has now added in a MARK 06 which is being created by SEELE and piloted by one of these evil Angels (Kaworu). But as I said, MARK 06 now has Lilith's face, but why? It's because Anno is changing the meaning of SEELE's logo with the 7 eyes. In the series it implied that SEELE was connected with Lilith and she was their purpose, but this time Lilith isn't a secret, so the purpose has changed. This new purpose is the MARK 06.

To write this all in biblical terms....

Babylon's (SEELE) plan to become God just as the serpent (Lucifer) wrapped around the apple in their logo promised humanity back in the Garden of Eden, will be enacted through the Mark of the Beast (MARK 06).

See? Anno is bringing everything together. All the symbols are actually being used effectively this time.

By realizing how Anno is approaching the symbols in the new movies, we can more accurately guess how the next movies will proceed.

It also means that perhaps Shinji will stop Human Instrumentality before it happens this time.

Were dealing with a new Anno who seems far more in tune with the mythology of his world now. Anything is possible and I'd like see more discussions.

If this doesn't cause anyone to reply seriously, then I guess I won't try again till Movie 3 (depending that Movie 3 doesn't strike down my theories). lol
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Old 2010-06-05, 23:06   Link #2142
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They better change the title. "The Quickening?" Next, you'll tell me Kaji becomes Sean Connery.





Hey wait a min-
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Old 2010-06-05, 23:59   Link #2143
Dragonkid11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
It also means that perhaps Shinji will stop Human Instrumentality before it happens this time.
Were dealing with a new Anno who seems far more in tune with the mythology of his world now. Anything is possible and I'd like see more discussions.

If this doesn't cause anyone to reply seriously, then I guess I won't try again till Movie 3 (depending that Movie 3 doesn't strike down my theories). lol
I wonder what will free Eva 1 from the the spear of Longinus...or maybe Shinji is stuck in there as well

And do you think that the purpose of "Human Instrumentality Project" will change?

Last edited by Dragonkid11; 2010-06-06 at 00:11.
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Old 2010-06-06, 00:56   Link #2144
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Just wanted to add, if anyone comes across some nice fanart, or official art of the Rebuild series...It would be so awesome if you could post it. I need some Eva Rebuild wallpapers on my desktop now! lol
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Old 2010-06-06, 02:06   Link #2145
Matt122005
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Originally Posted by Dragonkid11 View Post
I wonder what will free Eva 1 from the the spear of Longinus...or maybe Shinji is stuck in there as well

And do you think that the purpose of "Human Instrumentality Project" will change?
At the end of the second movie, after Kaworu shows up, during the preview it says that Shinji and Rei are trapped inside. Basically, Kaworu stopped Third Impact from happening.

I think that the first two movies have made it clear, the purpose to become God and unite all souls is the same for the new films version of Human Instrumentality. How exactly it is executed MIGHT prove different. I'm not sure.

The reason I wonder if Shinji will stop it this time, is because you basically have the following set-up going...

4 children who pilot EVA's under the "lie" that they are fighting the Angels (possibly implied in their mind that these Angels are from God), strange entities that are bent on destroying humanity, in order to protect humanity. They wrongly believe that SEELE and NERV are in a war against the Angels, when in fact SEELE is controlling the Angels and placing the Pilots in danger for their own plan.

Basically...

If you think of it from an allegoric perspective.

You have people who think they are doing the right thing, who will eventually discover that they have been "used" by evil the entire time.

Will they accept their fate once they discover that all humanity has been lied to, or will Shinji decide to reject SEELE (Babylon) and the Mark 06 and it's pilot?

These are all theories and such, but still, it could prove in the 3rd movie that there will be a conflict for the pilots on whether to break away from SEELE and NERV and challenge their plans, or go along with them. And we also have Misato who is investigating.
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Old 2010-06-06, 02:14   Link #2146
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4 children who pilot EVA's under the "lie" that they are fighting the Angels
Are you counting Mari? Because if you are, then Asuka, Rei, and Mari have acted on that the Angels are little more than codenames. Only Shinji thinks of them anything divine-like for a while.

It's certainly true in the series, and the movies haven't shown their opinion on the Angels at all besides "We gotta kill this mother-f*cker!, baka!"
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Old 2010-06-06, 02:44   Link #2147
Matt122005
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Originally Posted by RisArk View Post
Are you counting Mari? Because if you are, then Asuka, Rei, and Mari have acted on that the Angels are little more than codenames. Only Shinji thinks of them anything divine-like for a while.

It's certainly true in the series, and the movies haven't shown their opinion on the Angels at all besides "We gotta kill this mother-f*cker!, baka!"
That last part is epic funny. XD

I was counting Mari, yes. I realize that they haven't actually stated anything, which is why I mentioned "implying they are from God" right after. Because in reality, they haven't really mentioned their opinions on the Angel's in the movies.

But I would assume, that the creators assume that we as viewers of these new movies would "assume" that everyone is interpreting the Angel's in the somewhat apocalyptic biblical sense.

Part of the reason they might have avoided their personal opinions so far is the basic fact that if these films do turn out this time to be some form of a Christian allegory, that they work on two levels.

1. As just a cool science fiction story with Christian crosses.

2. A deeper allegory.

They might have left out opinions regarding the Angel's divinity merely for the sake of keeping level 1 of enjoyment intact for those who don't care about Christianity.

The fact is, these first two movies "have" seemingly set up a basis for an end of the world themed allegory. All the homework has been done and the world he has created is mirroring Revelation quite well. Where Anno will take this is still up in the air.

I'd be lying though if I didn't admit that I'm terribly worried that Anno might screw something up. (And I don't just mean the possibility of an allegory, but also the story itself)

These first two films have been near perfect for me. I'm really excited for the next one, if not also a bit nervous.
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Old 2010-06-06, 08:38   Link #2148
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by Waking_Dreamer View Post
Just wanted to add, if anyone comes across some nice fanart, or official art of the Rebuild series...It would be so awesome if you could post it. I need some Eva Rebuild wallpapers on my desktop now! lol
http://konachan.com/post/index?tags=...sis_evangelion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
I'd be lying though if I didn't admit that I'm terribly worried that Anno might screw something up. (And I don't just mean the possibility of an allegory, but also the story itself)

These first two films have been near perfect for me. I'm really excited for the next one, if not also a bit nervous.
The guy is definitely playing with fire so I bet he is being cautious. The first two were awesome and the changes all good, 'cept for what he did to Asuka, how dare he (the fan outcry in Japan must have been scary too).
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Old 2010-06-06, 08:52   Link #2149
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DragonZERO: Actually Rei is far more popular on the Japanese side of the fandom. The people who are raging about Asuka's reduced role are on the OTHER side of the Pacific -- mainly American and European fans of the franchise.

Which puts me in a weird place, fandom-wise, as I'm Asian, but was part of EFML...

Speaking of Asuka, I hope everyone noticed the fact that, this time around she and Shinji are pretty much the same height, whereas in the TV series she was taller than both Rei and Shinji (though only a little bit -- if I remember right, Rei is around 147cm, Shinji is 149 cm, and Asuka is 152 cm). The height difference isn't really important in-series, but in some supplemental material (the Raising Games and the AU Angelic Days) and more than a few fanfiction over the years play upon Shinji eventually outgrowing Asuka in terms of height as an odd reflection of his capacity to learn quickly versus Asuka's innate talents.

And yes, Rei is only three centimeters taller than Shana. Deal with it fanboys. :P
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Old 2010-06-06, 08:59   Link #2150
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
DragonZERO: Actually Rei is far more popular on the Japanese side of the fandom. The people who are raging about Asuka's reduced role are on the OTHER side of the Pacific -- mainly American and European fans of the franchise.
Really? Then I withdraw my statement. Rather, correct it and say the western fan base but me in uproar.

Quote:
Speaking of Asuka, I hope everyone noticed the fact that, this time around she and Shinji are pretty much the same height, whereas in the TV series she was taller than both Rei and Shinji (though only a little bit -- if I remember right, Rei is around 147cm, Shinji is 149 cm, and Asuka is 152 cm). The height difference isn't really important in-series, but in some supplemental material (the Raising Games and the AU Angelic Days) and more than a few fanfiction over the years play upon Shinji eventually outgrowing Asuka in terms of height as an odd reflection of his capacity to learn quickly versus Asuka's innate talents.

And yes, Rei is only three centimeters taller than Shana. Deal with it fanboys. :P
I'm glad they made her the same height. She already overpowers him, at least she isn't taller than the poor kid.
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Old 2010-06-06, 09:13   Link #2151
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Well, as I mentioned, their height was never really an issue in-series, so I guess they dropped that little detail in the transition to Rebuild.

The fact that Asuka seems to have shrunk in cup-size, however... Maybe someone in EVAgeeks can confirm it, but her athletic B seemed like it dropped a few centimeters. Or maybe Sadamoto overcompensated with Mari?

*coughs*
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Old 2010-06-06, 13:01   Link #2152
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They never could decide on her breast size.
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Old 2010-06-06, 14:22   Link #2153
Reckoner
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Ok so it wasn't Anno who said the christian symbols basically mean nothing, but the assistant director in the original series.

Quote:
Assistant director Kazuya Tsurumaki said that they originally used Christian symbolism only to give the project a unique edge against other giant robot shows, and that it had no particular meaning,[73] and that it was meant to be susceptible to multiple interpretations.[74] Hiroki Sato, head of Gainax's PR department, has made similar statements,[75] as has Toshio Okada.
Any meaning you attach to the Christian symbolism will hence be your own because in reality they are there just for the sake of being there. It is no different with Rebuild, and in some cases I feel they are pathetically going a little extreme when they put things like halos on the angels.
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Old 2010-06-06, 14:26   Link #2154
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Ok so it wasn't Anno who said the christian symbols basically mean nothing, but the assistant director in the original series.



Any meaning you attach to the Christian symbolism will hence be your own because in reality they are there just for the sake of being there. It is no different with Rebuild, and in some cases I feel they are pathetically going a little extreme when they put things like halos on the angels.
... okay honestly, Reckoner, can you chill out? Last I checked (which was just now) no one was saying that the symbols meant anything in Rebuild, just that they were being used more accurately than they were in the original show.
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Old 2010-06-06, 14:50   Link #2155
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Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
DragonZERO: Actually Rei is far more popular on the Japanese side of the fandom. The people who are raging about Asuka's reduced role are on the OTHER side of the Pacific -- mainly American and European fans of the franchise.
Well, Rei is the one with all the Clones. And I don't mean the ones in the tank.
As I eventually realized from my time on a Transformers board, the biggest fans are the ones who bitch the loudest. I actually paid attention to one guys posts, and noticed that in effect there was no part of Transformers he claimed to like, but at some point he claimed that each one sucked. That's why I've been much happier since I started just skipping rants about how something sucks given out on message boards.
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Old 2010-06-06, 15:04   Link #2156
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Actually. I've got to agree that the Christian symbols do have more meaning in rebuild then they did in the tv show. This is not to say Eva has some kind of Christian religious meaning. No, instead the Christian symbolism is just use to reference the Human Instrumentality Project.

And just to note, the original ending to Eva was do more to budget and censorship issues. Eva really used up all their budget. End of Evangelion was meant to be more close to anno's original vision for the show. And rebuild 1.0 just goes back and makes the first 6 episodes look more pretty. New shiny is always nice to see.

I'll borrow from Evageeks wonderful wiki and post some Anno quotes on rebuild:

Quote:
They say, "To live is to change." I started this production with the wish that once the production complete, the world, and the heroes would change. That was my "true" desire.
and

Quote:
"Evangelion is like a puzzle, you know. Any person can see it and give his/her own answer. In other words, we're offering viewers to think by themselves, so that each person can imagine his/her own world. We will never offer the answers, even in the theatrical version. As for many Evangelion viewers, they may expect us to provide the 'all-about Eva' manuals, but there is no such thing. Don't expect to get answers by someone. Don't expect to be catered to all the time. We all have to find our own answers."

This does make it sound like rebuild could certainly have been made to reflect how people (including Anno himself) have changed over the years since Eva came out.

It also means Reckoner and my views on the series can both be correct since Anno states it was his intention to have each viewer gain his own meaning from the show. This does mean there is no true fan of Eva since there is no definite meaning everyone should take from eva.


Food for thought.

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Last edited by bigdeath; 2010-06-06 at 15:57.
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Old 2010-06-06, 16:03   Link #2157
Matt122005
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
The guy is definitely playing with fire so I bet he is being cautious. The first two were awesome and the changes all good, 'cept for what he did to Asuka, how dare he (the fan outcry in Japan must have been scary too).
I'm hoping that Asuka gets an awesome come back in the next films. ^_^

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Ok so it wasn't Anno who said the christian symbols basically mean nothing, but the assistant director in the original series.

Any meaning you attach to the Christian symbolism will hence be your own because in reality they are there just for the sake of being there. It is no different with Rebuild, and in some cases I feel they are pathetically going a little extreme when they put things like halos on the angels.
It's funny how no matter how many times I already have mentioned this quotation, people always bring it up. >_>

That was made around 2002 or something, and was regarding the TV show which I have already stated many times DOES NOT have any real symbolic meaning. The TV series really did just throw stuff around randomly to look cool. None of it symbolically tied together.

But this is 15 years AFTER that TV series. Anno is a changed man and were dealing with an entirely different story.

They also are now aware that there is a Western audience that is familiar with Christianity, so they are probably paying more attention to their use of said symbols.

Any claims that EVA is now a Christian Allegory are obviously premature. While Anno has certainly created a set-up for one, that's all it is, a set-up. Until the next two films come out, we won't be able to tell. We have to be able to see the BIG picture of this story, not just the first half.

But at the very least, it's nice that Anno has taken the time to research things more carefully. He earns a lot of respect from me for that.
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Old 2010-06-06, 16:16   Link #2158
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I'm hoping that Asuka gets an awesome come back in the next films. ^_^
Deep down we're all hoping for some serious hardcore pirate action.
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Old 2010-06-06, 16:18   Link #2159
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Deep down we're all hoping for some serious hardcore pirate action.
I just want to hear her say "arrr matey" just once.

Intresting post from evageeks: http://www.evageeks.org/2010/05/gain...010/#more-1251

Quote:
Someone asked if Neon Genesis Evangelion ended the way it did due to budget problems. Yamaga responded that the problem was with time, not with budget. He then stated that the television ending was planned to be as it was from the beginning; Gainax thought “Wouldn’t it be interesting if the show ended this way?”.
Quote:
Yamaga said that everyone at Gainax was satisfied with the TV ending, repeating that it had been planned that way from the beginning, but once the show was over the staff still wanted to do “more Eva”, so they made the films.
So End of Eva was done just for the fun of it. Eh, I'm fine with that.
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Old 2010-06-06, 16:40   Link #2160
Matt122005
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BigDeath: I thought I read on Wikipedia that Anno didn't know how the story would end when he began it and that he made it up as he went along?
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