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Old 2010-06-07, 18:17   Link #2181
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Source, please?

I know a parents' group complained about the show, but I've never heard that the sponsors pulled out.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...esisEvangelion

I don't want to spend too much time looking because I thought it was common knowledge. Evangelion is one of the main reasons why they passed new censorship laws in the 90s.

Here are some quotes from it though.

Spoiler:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
That's the plan. Each one is supposed to be 45 minutes long, and it will be shown as a double feature...just like EoE was episodes 25' and 26'.

So yeah...think of it as one movie, and it'll be less confusing.
There is a lot of misinformation out there right now. At the beginning, it was said to be two 45 minute films shown as a double feature, but we really don't know for sure anymore.

There were rumors that Evangelion 3.0 would come out this summer, but as we can see, nothing much has happened so far with that.

At the very least, we're certain of at least about 90 minutes more of animation goodness.
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Old 2010-06-07, 19:18   Link #2182
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I'm just hoping we at least get a solid release date soon. Maybe some screenshots before the end of the year.

Personally, I've got my fingers crossed hoping we'll actually get to somehow see what Kyoko Soryu - sorry, "Shikinami" - looked like (the silhouetted-against-a-blinding-light-window image from Asuka's Mind Rape flashback doesn't count; I'm talking about sane Kyoko with discernable facial features).
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Old 2010-06-07, 20:14   Link #2183
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Originally Posted by DKN117 View Post
I'm just hoping we at least get a solid release date soon. Maybe some screenshots before the end of the year.

Personally, I've got my fingers crossed hoping we'll actually get to somehow see what Kyoko Soryu - sorry, "Shikinami" - looked like (the silhouetted-against-a-blinding-light-window image from Asuka's Mind Rape flashback doesn't count; I'm talking about sane Kyoko with discernable facial features).
Which flashback!? I think I need to read some summaries from the original series, it's been too long, huh.
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Old 2010-06-07, 20:55   Link #2184
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Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
Considering that these plans were only stated before the first movie came out, and were included with their other plans to have the films come out one quickly after another (which didn't happen), I think it could be possible that they will turn these two films into two separate full length features. Especially when you consider how much money they are currently making off the franchise right now.
True...but a few months ago, someone "reported" they would DEFINITELY be two separate movies (and that 3.0 would be out in early summer 2010). That turned out to be false. Studio Khara's ONLY statement on the matter is that the last two movies would be 45 minutes long each, and would be screened together.

So hope all you want, but please don't act like anyone involved in the production has said anything like that.

Believe me, I know from experience: once internet rumors get started, they're hard to quell.
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Old 2010-06-07, 23:23   Link #2185
Myssa Rei
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Given the expectations that there would be two more movies, a 90-minute allotment might seem too short for people. Here's to hoping that we get two full-length features instead.
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Old 2010-06-08, 09:56   Link #2186
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What qualifies as "full-length" anyway?
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Old 2010-06-08, 10:00   Link #2187
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
What qualifies as "full-length" anyway?
Id say minimum hour and half.

45mins for a "movie" is pathetic. Thats baiscally double episode of a weekly series...
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Old 2010-06-08, 10:50   Link #2188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
What qualifies as "full-length" anyway?
In my experience, anything that goes over an hour and fifteen minutes. For example, while fun, I never considered the Inukami! movie as anything but an OVA that had been shown in a movie theater due to the fact that it was barely more than 30 minutes long.
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Old 2010-06-08, 15:49   Link #2189
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...esisEvangelion

I don't want to spend too much time looking because I thought it was common knowledge. Evangelion is one of the main reasons why they passed new censorship laws in the 90s.

Here are some quotes from it though.

Spoiler:




There is a lot of misinformation out there right now. At the beginning, it was said to be two 45 minute films shown as a double feature, but we really don't know for sure anymore.

There were rumors that Evangelion 3.0 would come out this summer, but as we can see, nothing much has happened so far with that.

At the very least, we're certain of at least about 90 minutes more of animation goodness.
TV Tropes is not a credible source for much of anything, really.
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Old 2010-06-08, 16:03   Link #2190
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
TV Tropes is not a credible source for much of anything, really.
Do you consider evageeks themselves to be a credible source?

http://wiki.evageeks.org/Neon_Genesis_Evangelion

You're not going to get an official statement by Gainax seeing as they are trying to cover up their problems for whatever reason.
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Old 2010-06-08, 16:06   Link #2191
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
ou're not going to get an official statement by Gainax
Meaning i'm not going to believe what fans say.
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Old 2010-06-08, 17:18   Link #2192
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Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
Meaning i'm not going to believe what fans say.
So basically, you have nothing to believe? That's fine. But there is a lot of evidence from the fans that you have not refuted. When sponsors drop a show, you cannot possibly say that you are not going to have budget problems.
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Old 2010-06-08, 17:29   Link #2193
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Do you consider evageeks themselves to be a credible source?

http://wiki.evageeks.org/Neon_Genesis_Evangelion

You're not going to get an official statement by Gainax seeing as they are trying to cover up their problems for whatever reason.
Okay, here what it says on Evageeks (pertinent part bolded):

If you have seen Evangelion, you have probably noticed that after a while, each episode seems to be cheaper than the one before it. There are a couple of reasons for this. It was too ambitious for its budget to begin with, so after some beautiful material towards the beginning, they had to increasingly cut corners, (reused footage of the Bridge Bunnies at their consoles, etc.) Then came episodes 18-20. Evangelion was broadcast in prime time; in fact it came on right after the Ninja Turtles. If produced today, it would be broadcast after midnight. The network and the sponsors were not prepared for anything as violent as eps. 18-19, and then the obvious off-screen sex in ep. 20 was the last straw. The budget was cut further, resulting in all of the infamous pauses you see in eps. 22-24. The network rejected the script for ep. 25 altogether, (the first half of End of Evangelion is based upon the rejected script). This ultimately resulted in Anno presenting us with the abstract or "inner" version of the ending that we all know and (some of us) love from eps. 25-26.

First, I'd point that nowhere does it say the sponsors pulled out from the program, as you claim.

Second, I'd also note that Evageeks itself doesn't cite sources. The network rejected episode 25? I've never heard that before. (NOTE: I'M NOT SAYING IT'S FALSE). So then the assistant director was DEFINITELY lying when he said the ending was always planned that way...? That's kind of a bombshell, isn't it? Where did Evageeks get that info?
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Old 2010-06-08, 17:30   Link #2194
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All i'm saying is i'd rather see some official information then what fans have talked about. It's pretty understandable really when you think about it.

Edit: Yot-chan did a better job of it. :3
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Old 2010-06-08, 17:50   Link #2195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Do you consider evageeks themselves to be a credible source?

http://wiki.evageeks.org/Neon_Genesis_Evangelion

You're not going to get an official statement by Gainax seeing as they are trying to cover up their problems for whatever reason.
I had to look after guest star Kazuya Tsurumaki at the first "Connichi" convention in germany, Ludwigshaven 2002, and I was lucky enough to have a conversation with Mr. Gainax himself, Hiroyuki Yamaga, again at the same convention in 2007. Whatever the "real" reasons behind the arthouse cinema-like ending of the tv series were, I can tell you that Tsurumaki told me back then that "the ending of the tv series was as what Mr.Anno had planned". The second thing we should keep in mind is that a) H. Yamaga isn't exactly a very "wordy" type of person when it comes down to typical fan questions about the content of their older shows (to get an impression about that, just read the recent ANN interview with him) and b) Gainax as a whole in general likes to stirr up trouble. I was told for instance by Jonathan Clements at the Locarno Film Festival in 2009 that Yamaga, Takami Akai & co. had lots of fun at the festival by sneaking into the press conferences of other japanese animation companies, seated at the back, and asking stupid questions just to embarass the people there...
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Old 2010-06-08, 18:31   Link #2196
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Alright, I see what you are saying, but it is very hard for me to pull up the most legitimate sources because

1. The anime is over a decade old

2. I don't speak Japanese

However, these rumors have been well founded in the past and there was information out there like Gainax spending half the entire's show budget on the first 2 episodes (LOL). You don't have to believe me, but this information seems to be spread almost everywhere you go online. The only ones who seem to state the contrary are Gainax themselves.

@ Yot-chan

Yeah, sorry perhaps i shouldn't of said that the sponsors dropped the show exactly.

It wasn't just that though, the network pressures, time constraints (They did the last episodes literally the week it was airing), and Anno going off the deep end all contributed to the utterly fantastic blaze of glory that the TV ending was.
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Old 2010-06-08, 19:19   Link #2197
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Yeah, sorry perhaps i shouldn't of said that the sponsors dropped the show exactly.

It wasn't just that though, the network pressures, time constraints (They did the last episodes literally the week it was airing), and Anno going off the deep end all contributed to the utterly fantastic blaze of glory that the TV ending was.
And yet, we've got Kazuya Tsurumaki saying that the final episodes were always what was planned. And most sources I've read (mostly from Anno himself), he went off the deep end BEFORE he did Eva, not during or after.

So: We've got an unsourced Gainax quote saying that the last two episodes were always meant to be like that; we've got an unsourced Evageeks article saying that there were budget problems, and that the network rejected episode 25; and we've got you adding that the final episodes were finished the week they were aired, which is something else that I hadn't heard (I thought that situation was relatively common, though...?).

If one version is true, the other must be false. I can't presume to say which one is correct (if either), and neither can you. Probably best to label them as rumors rather than boldly asserting them as facts.
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Old 2010-06-08, 19:59   Link #2198
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
And yet, we've got Kazuya Tsurumaki saying that the final episodes were always what was planned. And most sources I've read (mostly from Anno himself), he went off the deep end BEFORE he did Eva, not during or after.

So: We've got an unsourced Gainax quote saying that the last two episodes were always meant to be like that; we've got an unsourced Evageeks article saying that there were budget problems, and that the network rejected episode 25; and we've got you adding that the final episodes were finished the week they were aired, which is something else that I hadn't heard (I thought that situation was relatively common, though...?).

If one version is true, the other must be false. I can't presume to say which one is correct (if either), and neither can you. Probably best to label them as rumors rather than boldly asserting them as facts.
Well the rumors of the fans aren't exactly unfounded. Again, if I could speak Japanese I probably could find you the sources and such.

Anno was depressed when he made Evangelion, but he increasingly became more depressed as the show went on. It is well known that there were time constraints (The only thing that seems to be consistent between the stories of Gainax and Eva fans).

I did read some budget information sometime some years ago I just haven't been able to find it.

I myself am thouroughly convinced by the information presently known as are many others.

Here is what I do know though. I'll include the best sources I know of.



Quote:
PRODUCTION paragraph #2 (as translated by Bochan_bird) wrote:
Episode 25' "Air" is based on the original episode 25 script which was completed during production of the TV series. Due to production time limits and other problems, this script was not used and the TV episode 25 "Owaru sekai (The Ending World)" instead became a drama which unfolded within an inner universe like episode 26. In this sense, episode 25' could be considered a return to the originally intended contents. In contrast, episode 26' adds much more story and dramatic content to TV episode 26, thus deepening the theme.
Quote:
What did you think about developments during the second half of the TV series?
KT - I didn't mind it. The schedule was an utter disaster and the number of cels plummeted, so there were some places where unfortunately the quality suffered. However, the tension of the staff as we all became more desperate and frenzied certainly showed up in the film.

-- I see.
KT - About the time that the production system was completely falling apart, there were some opinions to the effect that, "If we can't do satisfactory work, then what's the point of continuing?" However, I didn't feel that way. My opinion was, "Why don't we show them the entire process including our breakdown." You know -- make it a work that shows everything including our inability to create a satisfactory product. I figured that, "In 10 years or so, if we look back on something that we made while we were drunk out of our minds, we wouldn't feel bad even if the quality wasn't so good."
This is stated in the red cross book. I'll try to give you more information if I come across it... This already contradicts Gainax's statement by the way.
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Old 2010-06-08, 20:55   Link #2199
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I have the Red Cross book, and what Reckoner referenced is accurate. At least at the time it was published (the same time EoE came out) anyway.

I have a feeling that there's a strange sort of historical revisionism that has occurred, at least in the minds of the staff themselves as the years went on, which is why their more recent comments regarding the TV series' troubles as it near its close contradict what they had said just a few years before. They may joke about it now, but it was probably not a laughing matter back then.
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Old 2010-06-08, 21:23   Link #2200
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Well the rumors of the fans aren't exactly unfounded. Again, if I could speak Japanese I probably could find you the sources and such.

Anno was depressed when he made Evangelion, but he increasingly became more depressed as the show went on. It is well known that there were time constraints (The only thing that seems to be consistent between the stories of Gainax and Eva fans).
Again, I've never seen a reference for Anno getting more depressed as the series went on... I wouldn't doubt it, though. (Although, in the first volume of the manga, printed before the series even started airing, he already said the show had failed.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I did read some budget information sometime some years ago I just haven't been able to find it.

I myself am thouroughly convinced by the information presently known as are many others.

Here is what I do know though. I'll include the best sources I know of.







This is stated in the red cross book. I'll try to give you more information if I come across it... This already contradicts Gainax's statement by the way.
Ah, okay. That works. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
I have the Red Cross book, and what Reckoner referenced is accurate. At least at the time it was published (the same time EoE came out) anyway.

I have a feeling that there's a strange sort of historical revisionism that has occurred, at least in the minds of the staff themselves as the years went on, which is why their more recent comments regarding the TV series' troubles as it near its close contradict what they had said just a few years before. They may joke about it now, but it was probably not a laughing matter back then.
I don't think it's historical revisionism...the bush I've been beating around throughout this whole conversation is that, pretty much from the start, Gainax members have been contradicting themselves and each other about the production of the show, and especially about the final episodes.

Muddying the water even further is all the fan speculation that has gone on non-stop since the episodes first aired. Theories get treated as rumors, rumors get treated as fact, half-remembered anecdotes get fully twisted around... It's the nature of the internet, I suppose, but it WOULD be nice if we could straighten out the threads before they get tangled even further.

As such, I'm not trying to be hard on Reckoner or anyone else here...it's just that sources are highly appreciated by me, and just because someone read something somewhere back in '98 doesn't necessarily mean it's true.
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