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Old 2010-06-10, 10:36   Link #2241
Yot-chan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Does anyone own the Perfect Collection of the original series? I'm wondering how it is (the subs, video, audio, etc).
You mean the Platinum Collection? If so, I have it. It looks, sounds, and reads great.

They changed some of of the endings so that every episode features a different version of "Fly Me to the Moon," but other than that, it's simply remastered, not altered.

The liner notes are good, too.

If you're NOT referring to the Platinum Edition, then...I look pretty silly, don't I?
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Old 2010-06-10, 11:10   Link #2242
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
They changed some of of the endings so that every episode features a different version of "Fly Me to the Moon," but other than that, it's simply remastered, not altered.
Wait, you mean there wasn't a different version of Fly Me to the Moon in each episode originally? Because I always thought that was how it was supposed to be...
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Old 2010-06-10, 11:23   Link #2243
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
You mean the Platinum Collection? If so, I have it. It looks, sounds, and reads great.

They changed some of of the endings so that every episode features a different version of "Fly Me to the Moon," but other than that, it's simply remastered, not altered.

The liner notes are good, too.

If you're NOT referring to the Platinum Edition, then...I look pretty silly, don't I?
Yeah, I meant the Platinum, my bad. I don't know where I got perfect from. It's not even called that in Japan,

I read that it includes the director cut's of the final few episodes with scenes from Death too.

My real concern are the subtitles. I prefer subs over dubs and am wondering if they are good subtitles or dubtitles and all.
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Old 2010-06-10, 11:33   Link #2244
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Originally Posted by Vegard Aune View Post
Wait, you mean there wasn't a different version of Fly Me to the Moon in each episode originally? Because I always thought that was how it was supposed to be...
Most of the early episodes (and some of the later ones) originally used the same version as episode 1...I'm sure someone's catalogued which episode had which version...

But yeah, on Platinum, they're all different, even if the differences are often minor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Yeah, I meant the Platinum, my bad. I don't know where I got perfect from. It's not even called that in Japan,

I read that it includes the director cut's of the final few episodes with scenes from Death too.

My real concern are the subtitles. I prefer subs over dubs and am wondering if they are good subtitles or dubtitles and all.
It's been a while since I compared, but IIRC, the subs are mostly the same as the old ADV subs, but they've updated and corrected some of them...I think.

And yeah, the last DVDs have both the Producer's cut and the on-air versions of episodes 21-24.

Also, from the Japanese end, some background chatter has been added to help take advantage of the 5.1 sound...stuff that was in the scripts originally, but cut from the TV broadcast because, in stereo, it cluttered up the dialogue too much.

There's also a bunch of absolutely worthless bonus features...I'm not sure which is more cringe-inducing, the multi-part interview with an Eva "expert," or Tiffany Grant showing off all her Asuka merchandise...
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Old 2010-06-10, 21:33   Link #2245
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15 years ago I watched Shin Seiki Evangelion with a tiny low-res picture. I couldn't see much because of the poor picture and because half the action was in the dark and/or in shadow. It was a great show anyway that broke a lot of rules and got a lot of people excited. I bought matching Rei and Asuka swimsuit statues.

A few years ago there was talk of new activity, both a remake of the show as a series of movies, and a live-action movie. The talk went on and on until I tuned it out.

Recently I thought I'd check back in. I see the live-action is still talk but half the remake movies are done, albeit years late. So I've now watched the 1st two of these.

My impressions so far:
  • The picture is now large and high-res but I still can't see half the action because it is in the dark and/or in shadow. Was that a head? A foot? Did somebody hit somebody? I guess they must want it like that for some reason. A shame really, because:
  • The new action is more spectacular. There is a better impression of massive industrial equipment and power, on a space program scale. More detailed machinery and EVAs. Bigger explosions! More fire and smoke and destruction!
  • This seems to come at the expense of character development. The characters are the same, just toned down a whole lot. And poor Asuka, perhaps the best character, has even been split into two (a cutting budded into Mari), as well as actually physically diminished (shorter, smaller breasts). A large part of what made the original show so powerful was the very intense and personal explorations of extreme feelings and behaviors. I doubt that we're going to see Shinji spill it at Asuka's bedside.
  • Oddly, more PenPen. I always thought he deserved more time.
  • A lot of glossing over. The Disciples (Angels) have no names. The power system details with umbilical cords and reserve power limits is unexplained and used inconsistently. No explanations of various Impacts or backstory or personal histories (may yet be rectified).
In short, more action, less of that weird uncomfortable emotional and religious stuff. This doesn't feel like a clarification of the director's original vision, but rather a sanitised cashing in on a reliable, lucrative, giant robot franchise. Like still another Eagle's farewell tour.

The suits always win in the end, and the aging director behaves himself if he wants a nestegg for his imminent retirement.

P.S. I understand the manga has been running continuously for 15 years. What on earth kind of story material have they been using all this time? Are they up to fighting the 898th Disciple (Angel) by now?
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Old 2010-06-11, 01:47   Link #2246
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Can't seem to find a You Can (Not) Advance thread and the search function directs me here so here goes:

I just watched the You Can (Not) Advance movie a week or so ago via fansubs and I have to say that I was floored from all the epicness.

Can't wait for the next movie which will be out in around 2 years time on fansubs. Yeah. It sucks not to understand the moonspeak, but.. oh well. Then there's the 4th movie (according to wiki). Ugh. I'd be old when that time comes.
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Old 2010-06-11, 02:33   Link #2247
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Quote:
The Disciples (Angels) have no names.
Clockiel and Tunniel.

Plus, no one ever said the Angel's names (except Kaworu) anyway so really it doesn't matter.

Quote:
The suits always win in the end, and the aging director behaves himself if he wants a nestegg for his imminent retirement.
LOL. Sorry, I had to laugh.

This is Anno's project, through and through. It's not even Gainax making this, it's his personal company Studio Khara.

Quote:
P.S. I understand the manga has been running continuously for 15 years. What on earth kind of story material have they been using all this time? Are they up to fighting the 898th Disciple (Angel) by now?
The manga just finished Asuka's death in EoE. It only runs 2-3 chapters a year.
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Old 2010-06-11, 07:56   Link #2248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drobertbaker View Post
This doesn't feel like a clarification of the director's original vision, but rather a sanitised cashing in on a reliable, lucrative, giant robot franchise. Like still another Eagle's farewell tour.

The suits always win in the end, and the aging director behaves himself if he wants a nestegg for his imminent retirement.
Nope, this is literally Anno's baby this time around. And he's actually mentioned the 'clarification' aspect of the new movies in interviews.

“The visual work called Evangelion is composed of a variety of desires.

The desire to put our own honest feelings on film. The desire to convey to as many people as possible the fundamental appeal of touching primitive emotions and how versatile the medium of animation is in it’s expression and images that it is capable of realizing. The desire to take the exhausted animation of Japan and carry it into the future. The desire to shatter the spreading sense of helplessness. The desire to carry on the strength of spirit that lives on in the real world.

The desire to realize these desires once again.”



EDIT: Surprise, surprise, Funimation's website just went down. The quote above was taken verbatim from the site though.
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Old 2010-06-11, 12:59   Link #2249
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Furthermore:

Quote:
Eva is a story of repetition.
It is a story where our protagonist faces the same situation many times over and determinedly picks himself back up again.
It is a story of the will to move forward, even if only a little.
It is a story of the resolve to want to be together, even though it is frightening to have contact with others and to endure ambiguous loneliness.
So that Anno's thoughts on what Eva means and its the meaning he wants to convey in rebuild. Also, he states that since Eva first came out there hasn't be an anime as ground breaking as Eva and further the animation market has slumped instead. So rebuild is in part an effect to reignite interests in Japanese animation. Or at least Anno small part in such an effort.
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Old 2010-06-11, 14:25   Link #2250
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Originally Posted by bigdeath View Post
Furthermore:



So that Anno's thoughts on what Eva means and its the meaning he wants to convey in rebuild. Also, he states that since Eva first came out there hasn't be an anime as ground breaking as Eva and further the animation market has slumped instead. So rebuild is in part an effect to reignite interests in Japanese animation. Or at least Anno small part in such an effort.
It's awfully conceited of him to say there hasn't been any other ground-breaking animes.

And there is a lot of stupid repetition. Shinji should only run away from the Eva once.
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Old 2010-06-11, 14:47   Link #2251
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Well, correction. He said not as groundbreaking (not that it was the only one). Eva has shaped quite a lot in anime this past decade.
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Old 2010-06-11, 15:08   Link #2252
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Well the animation industry currently is very stagnant. But making Evangelion more like current animes (Making Rei moe, making Asuka a typical tsundere, making Shinji GAR, etc.) is not serving the purpose of revitalizing the industry once more.

He is perpetuating the same flaws of current animation today. That is partly why I am so upset about Rebuild in general.
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Old 2010-06-11, 15:30   Link #2253
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Well, correction. He said not as groundbreaking (not that it was the only one). Eva has shaped quite a lot in anime this past decade.
Ah, okay...that is better. I don't deny what Eva was and did, but still...for HIM to say that...tsk.

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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Well the animation industry currently is very stagnant. But making Evangelion more like current animes (Making Rei moe, making Asuka a typical tsundere, making Shinji GAR, etc.) is not serving the purpose of revitalizing the industry once more.

He is perpetuating the same flaws of current animation today. That is partly why I am so upset about Rebuild in general.
I didn't see Rei being moe or Asuka being anymore tsundere than she was. I know it's been years since I watched the series, but I am not seeing a big difference in that area if my memory is still serving me.

...I really have to watch the original series again, lol.
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Old 2010-06-11, 18:25   Link #2254
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
*snips*
Did someone miss the implications of 'clarification'? Is the lack of ambiguity such a bad thing, given the movie format? :P
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Old 2010-06-11, 18:35   Link #2255
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I'll also point out that Anno goes on to say that people (Japanese I assume hes talking about) seem to have gotten too depressed in their outlook so rebuild is meant to counter that just a bit. Anno basically says Eva is a story about people going against impossible odds on top of having their own emotional problems but in the end they move forward regardless. That was the original intent of Eva and rebuild is just an attempt to make that message more clear because Anno apparently thinks such a message is needed nowadays.

As for revitalization of the anime industry, Anno seems to mean more the technical aspects of animation. As in they want to polish up the old Eva to give the industry a new standard to strive for. And the Animation is breathtaking in Rebuild. I'll give them that.

Theres concern expressed about the lack of growth in anime's target audience so another goal of rebuild is to make Eva's story easier to understand and more clear. Which is an understandable goal consider I know many people simply dismiss Eva as a convoluted story which is a real shame.

Also:

Quote:
There is a growing sense that we are creating something that will surpass the old
So it seems it is Anno's hope that Rebuild will in someway have a larger impact than the original. Lofty goal and I'm not sure thats even possible but I won't blame him for setting his personal goals high for this project.

The message from Anno is dated Sept. 26, 2006 so its his declaration of intent for rebuild before 1.0 came out.
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Old 2010-06-11, 18:39   Link #2256
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Well let's consider Evangelion as a whole.

It's memorable because it took the tropes of the time and twisted it. After all, it did start out as a "monster of the week" show with a hint of its more memorable elements. But you would have never known where it'd go just from the first half.

So it's not too unreasonable the new Eva would delve into the cliches of right now and find something to do with them. Certainly Eva TV did not go off into the deep end until a bit more than halfway through.

This is just coming from someone who had a moderate opinion of Rebuild and isn't impressed (Asuka Shikinami= imposter cosplayer! ). But I think it could definitely take that kind of direction. I obviously have boiled up crackpot theories that have no basis, but I'll wait til we see the rest to express them.
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Old 2010-06-11, 18:53   Link #2257
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No no, you have to express your crackpot theories now! Its a big part of the fun we have until the final movie comes out.

Heres an Asuka fan who liked Rebuild's version of her:

http://www.otaku2.com/articleView.php?item=427

Quote:
Asuka does in her usual tsundere way express feelings for Shinji, for example feeling lonely and coming to sleep in his room (this is not sleep walking as in the TV series) and confronting Ayanami about her feelings for him (this is after she calls Ayanami a doll in the infamous elevator scene, and it is masterfully played here). She is a compelling character, maybe even more so than in the original series, and her drive to excel, lack of social skills and loneliness really shine through. Her "Anta baka?!" line sounds sadder, not like the bitchy kid from the series but rather like someone who can't deal with people and so cuts them off. She also has some great fan service moments in shimapan and bursting naked from the shower. But instead of pursuing Shinji, she volunteers to test pilot Eva Unit 03 from the United States. Yes, Asuka, not Toji. After making an extremely moving cell phone call to Misato, and slipping into a sexy new version of plug suit, Asuka pilots it. The machine is infected by an Angel and goes rotten. Shinji refuses to fight it and the dummy plug system takes control of Eva Unit 01, which horribly destroys Unit 03 – and crushes the entry plug containing Asuka in its mouth. Absolutely chilling. Thankfully, the dummy plug system in this theatrical version does not make Shinji watch this. Not soon after this, Mari sneaks into NERV headquarters and takes Asuka’s Unit 02 to fight Zeruel. I am grateful that she is not a copy of Asuka, but a very Earthy, even bestial character unique in her own right (nice balance to all the ethereal characters). Apparently she was designed to be like a "Showa old man character," someone who doesn't think and likes to fight, and Tsurumaki says she is the only character not somehow coming from Anno's psyche. She drives Unit 02 berserk and has a knock down
brawl, but gets cruelly dismembered.
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Old 2010-06-11, 21:26   Link #2258
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Originally Posted by bigdeath View Post
No no, you have to express your crackpot theories now! Its a big part of the fun we have until the final movie comes out.

Heres an Asuka fan who liked Rebuild's version of her:

http://www.otaku2.com/articleView.php?item=427

Asuka does in her usual tsundere way express feelings for Shinji, for example feeling lonely and coming to sleep in his room (this is not sleep walking as in the TV series) and confronting Ayanami about her feelings for him (this is after she calls Ayanami a doll in the infamous elevator scene, and it is masterfully played here). She is a compelling character, maybe even more so than in the original series, and her drive to excel, lack of social skills and loneliness really shine through. Her "Anta baka?!" line sounds sadder, not like the bitchy kid from the series but rather like someone who can't deal with people and so cuts them off. She also has some great fan service moments in shimapan and bursting naked from the shower. But instead of pursuing Shinji, she volunteers to test pilot Eva Unit 03 from the United States. Yes, Asuka, not Toji. After making an extremely moving cell phone call to Misato, and slipping into a sexy new version of plug suit, Asuka pilots it. The machine is infected by an Angel and goes rotten. Shinji refuses to fight it and the dummy plug system takes control of Eva Unit 01, which horribly destroys Unit 03 – and crushes the entry plug containing Asuka in its mouth. Absolutely chilling. Thankfully, the dummy plug system in this theatrical version does not make Shinji watch this. Not soon after this, Mari sneaks into NERV headquarters and takes Asuka’s Unit 02 to fight Zeruel. I am grateful that she is not a copy of Asuka, but a very Earthy, even bestial character unique in her own right (nice balance to all the ethereal characters). Apparently she was designed to be like a "Showa old man character," someone who doesn't think and likes to fight, and Tsurumaki says she is the only character not somehow coming from Anno's psyche. She drives Unit 02 berserk and has a knock down
brawl, but gets cruelly dismembered.
Oh, gosh. You just added some zest to my pot of nerd rage with that review lol.

Usual tsundere way? Superficially one could label Asuka as a tsundere, but her feelings are much more complicated than that. What he describes in Asuka, is a completely different character.

The reason she confronted Rei in the original series has NOTHING to do with what SHE perceives as a rival love interest in Rei. It all goes back to what she hates about dolls and her mother. Her reason for fighting, to be recognized... To not diminish. To want to live.

That leads me to question this Asuka's motives because so far they are not really all that clear. We have no idea why exactly she was always alone or supposedly socially awkward. In the end, she comes off as little more than an angsty teenager like the main character from Twilgiht ().

And the whole thing about Asuka being more open? This is another aspect of her character being destroyed. The old Asuka had way too much pride to ever talk about her problems with others, or find comfort in others, especially Shinji.

The way she talks to Shinji about calling him an idiot is almost trivial. I truly felt like I was watching a stupid tsundere in a harem show.

Now the whole plot device with Asuka getting into the suit was solely there to flesh out Mari, my dear Mary Sue character. While she did get some "development," we are still not clear on what troubles her. We don't understand anything about her character. She isn't even really that bitchy anymore, because her actions do little to piss me off like they did in the original.

OKAY I need to stop. I'm going to mindlessly rant on forever at this rate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
Did someone miss the implications of 'clarification'? Is the lack of ambiguity such a bad thing, given the movie format? :P
Yes, the lack of ambiguity is a bad thing! At least for the type of Evangelion like me that loved the ambiguity. It's what gives the series such great rewatch value. Every time you watch it with a fresh mind, you discover new details, find new ways to spin the character's intentions. That's part of what makes Evangelion so fascinating. There is always new things to learn.

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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I didn't see Rei being moe or Asuka being anymore tsundere than she was. I know it's been years since I watched the series, but I am not seeing a big difference in that area if my memory is still serving me. .
Well if you want more explanation on the matter on me, I've ranted plenty earlier in this thread.
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Old 2010-06-11, 22:05   Link #2259
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Lol, I thought you might "enjoy" that Reckoner. So it seems not all Asuka fans think the same. Perhaps your can add "one of the last true asuka fans" to your signature.

J/k, sorry, I couldn't resist that cheap shot.


I, on the other hand, love Mari so clearly I'm a heretic. She certainly hotter than the 2 original girls.
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Old 2010-06-11, 23:05   Link #2260
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Ahaha, Mari. The name aside (boy did that ruin 15 years of Western EVA Fanfic tradition), a lot of us already mentioned how Mary Sue she ain't (you better update your definition young'un). Whatever problems you have with her stem from your intense love for the TV series, which will inevitably generate nerd rage from you whenever someone mentions their liking for the re-imagining that is Rebuild. It's getting cyclical already.

I'm not bothered in Mari's case, as it's just a case of perceptive dissonance -- she wasn't in the TV series, but she's in the movie that people perceive as a parallel adaptation (which should be obvious to all by now that it isn't). It's an irrational dislike at best, but I should have expected it, as the fandom at large can be irrational. I guess you're just far too young to have been around (or pretty close) to Ground Zero in the Western fandom when news of Koutetsu no Shoujo came out...

Spoiler for Stuff:


Note, this was something that was 100% pure GAINAX, and had most of the TV series staff on board to make sure it stuck closely to the TV series in terms of composition.
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