AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Movies, OVAs/OADs, and Specials

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-06-12, 16:07   Link #2301
Yot-chan
Minmay Guard
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tokyo
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKN117 View Post
To bring up the earlier "Mari = Mary-Sue" argument: doesn't the fact that she, despite pulling out all the stops and triggering Unit-02's Berserk State, gets her ass utterly kicked by Zeruel kinda deal a blow against her being an MS? Or would the fact that Zeruel kicks everyone's ass, right up until Unit-01 becomes a demigod, undo what I just said?
The only conclusion possible is that Eva-01 is a Mary Sue.
Yot-chan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-12, 17:52   Link #2302
BetoJR
D-d-don't look!!!
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 36
Exactly. Having just finished watching Eva 2.22, I can only come to the same conclusion: Eva-01 is the biggest Mary Sue that ever was in all of anime. Also, Mari is hot. And I wasn't utterly disgusted with Asuka. What gives? Probably need to see it again. Yeah, that's it. Maybe then, I'll hate her.

Gonna do that right away, then.

__________________
It's always a great time to immerse yourself in Deculture love!
All hail the Empress!!!

BetoJR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-13, 01:27   Link #2303
Guardian Enzo
Seishu's Ace
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kagurazaka, Tokyo
Anyone who ever doubted the lasting impact of Eva need only look at the post traffic a remake of a remake of an already heavily leveraged and repackaged property can generate. Eva is the most important anime of all time, no matter what you think of it.

That being said, it's certainly interesting to see what people do think of it - the rebuild, that is. For me, I suppose I'm a purist's purist - I thought the TV ending was genius and heinously misunderstood, and EoE an intentionally hideous bastardization of the project by Anno, a thumb in the eye to all the complainers.

And here we are, in a later century, dissecting another retelling. I find Mari utterly useless - but I'm a Rei fanboy, not an Asuka one, so don't lay that "cool chick usurped" reasoning on me. She feels tacked-on and unnecessary, like a product placement ad. I never liked Asuka - to me she was a mean and selfish girl - but her role in the story was utterly essential and ingeniously crafted. Mari just feels like a distraction.

I guess that ties into the larger problem I have with Rebuild, because I haven't seen anything yet in two movies that tells me why it's necessary except as a financial windfall for Gainax. That said, it's gorgeously animated and immensely entertaining, and I do indeed enjoy some of the changes. As someone (Reckoner?) mentioned earlier Shinji is a misunderstood character, maybe among the most in all of anime - indeed, if you didn't empathize with him I feel that you did miss the larger point of the series. So it's nice to see him given more opportunity to show his backbone here - he's a stronger, more forceful boy in this version, if no less cursed by fate. Rei feels more fleshed out, too, more whole - though indeed, she was always the most popular character in Japan even in her series incarnation.

I suppose the acid test will be where we go from here. We've already had two distinct endings for this story so it's not absurd to think Anno will give us a third - if it can add meaning to the experience of watching and absorbing Eva than all this will have justified itself beyond the financial. If not, it will at least have been entertaining and it doesn't seem likely to diminish the legacy of the property the way EoE did, so no real harm done. I'd just love to see something real and important added to the Eva pantheon as a result of these movies when they're wrapped up.
Guardian Enzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-13, 06:37   Link #2304
Myssa Rei
Moderate Haruhiist
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Metro Manila, Philippines
Age: 33
Send a message via ICQ to Myssa Rei Send a message via Yahoo to Myssa Rei
Guardian ENZO and BetoJR: Mirrored Cross Game avatars!

A purist's purist... That doesn't sound right, kind of like an elite elitist. :P

Kidding aside, it shows the franchise's appeal, though it worries me that some narrow-minded folks are saying that the Rebuild movies are ruining the franchise for them... And they're not even finished yet. That's like saying Two Towers ruined the Lord of the Rings, even before Return of the King was shown.

Also, aren't some of these people the same ones complaining on and off in the past decade how much GAINAX has been ruining the TV series with every refurbished Edition?
__________________
Myssa Rei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-13, 07:27   Link #2305
BetoJR
D-d-don't look!!!
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
Guardian ENZO and BetoJR: Mirrored Cross Game avatars!
Sheez, Enzo, why are you following me here? I don't want another warning...
__________________
It's always a great time to immerse yourself in Deculture love!
All hail the Empress!!!

BetoJR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-13, 09:04   Link #2306
RisArk
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Quote:
guess that ties into the larger problem I have with Rebuild, because I haven't seen anything yet in two movies that tells me why it's necessary except as a financial windfall for Gainax.
OMFG I'm seriously just going to murder you all.

This is by Studio Khara, Anno's personal studio. Anno has a grudge against Gainax after the Gunbuster panchiko incident, where they used it without his permission. Hell, Gainax even now might die in a few years if rumor holds true the license holder moves to Anno's side permanently.
RisArk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-13, 10:14   Link #2307
Jarmel
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
I much prefer 2.22 to the original series. Absolutely fantastic. I was somewhat hoping they might go down the Asuka dead route but they didn't do it despite me preferring Asuka. Animation was again outstanding but I wonder how they're going to stretch this into two more movies.

My question is how is Mari going to fit into the larger picture regarding Shinji and what role will Asuka serve moving forward?
Jarmel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-13, 10:28   Link #2308
RisArk
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
I dunno how you ask how it would last 2 more movies when we still have Kaworu, Mari, SEELE, and Third Impact round 2 to show.
RisArk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-13, 10:33   Link #2309
Jarmel
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by RisArk View Post
I dunno how you ask how it would last 2 more movies when we still have Kaworu, Mari, SEELE, and Third Impact round 2 to show.
Alot of that stuff could fit into 1 movie(It would be tight but doable) but apparently they're going down alternate ending route. I still have no clue what they're going to do with Mari as she and Asuka fit the same role.
Jarmel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-13, 10:38   Link #2310
RisArk
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Explaining the things I mentioned above, the entire End of Evangelion, explaining Rei clones, explaining Yui=Eva 1, Ritsuko, etc. The movie would have be 3 hours minimum
RisArk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-13, 10:44   Link #2311
Jarmel
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by RisArk View Post
Explaining the things I mentioned above, the entire End of Evangelion, explaining Rei clones, explaining Yui=Eva 1, Ritsuko, etc. The movie would have be 3 hours minimum
It certainly seems that they're not following EoE to the letter and alot of this stuff can be relatively explained and gone over in a short period of time. For pacing purposes it obviously wouldn't be ideal but it could be done. That's why I'm so curious what Mari's role in this is as that is a whole 'nother sub-plot.
Jarmel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-13, 11:25   Link #2312
Guardian Enzo
Seishu's Ace
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kagurazaka, Tokyo
Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
Sheez, Enzo, why are you following me here? I don't want another warning...
Hey, I've been here all along - just not too often lately!

RisArk, tell that to the Eva links at Gainax' website. Anno has his issues with Gainax and basically formed his studio to make these movies, but make no mistake - Gainax is still very much financially vested in these movies in a big way and could have put the kibosh on the entire project had they so chosen. The acrimony about the Gunbuster pachinko machine and all that may have led to an even stronger desire to take this outside Gainax, but let's face it - Gainax probably didn't have the resources to make this in-house without assistance anyway. Whatever Anno and the Kamimiura's might think or want, Gainax is not giving up the licensing right to Eva without the fight to end all fights.
Guardian Enzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-13, 12:26   Link #2313
RisArk
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
I highly doubt it. Eva is certainly not a hard project to get funding for nowadays and most of the staff from Eva transferred over from Gainax. If anything, Gainax is crutching on for the revolvatech money/Mari figure sales. The license of Eva apparently belongs to some guy within the company, and there's a big dispute right now whether if he gives it to Anno once and for all.

Oh, and I was just on sources and remembered this gem:

Quote:
"For this purpose, we are not returning to our roots at Gainax. I have set up a production company and studio, and it is in this new setting that we will start again. Without looking back, without admiration for the circumstances, we aim to walk towards the future. Thankfully, we have gathered staff from the old series, new staff, and many other fantastic staff to work on this series. We realize that we are creating something that will be better than the last series."
RisArk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-13, 12:56   Link #2314
Yot-chan
Minmay Guard
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tokyo
Quote:
Originally Posted by RisArk View Post
I highly doubt it. Eva is certainly not a hard project to get funding for nowadays and most of the staff from Eva transferred over from Gainax. If anything, Gainax is crutching on for the revolvatech money/Mari figure sales. The license of Eva apparently belongs to some guy within the company, and there's a big dispute right now whether if he gives it to Anno once and for all.

Oh, and I was just on sources and remembered this gem:
"For this purpose, we are not returning to our roots at Gainax. I have set up a production company and studio, and it is in this new setting that we will start again. Without looking back, without admiration for the circumstances, we aim to walk towards the future. Thankfully, we have gathered staff from the old series, new staff, and many other fantastic staff to work on this series. We realize that we are creating something that will be better than the last series."
Hmmm...much as I'm enjoying Rebuild, I'm not sure I can go THAT far yet.

But really, there's no way for Rebuild to capture the same uncanniness of the original. That takes something monumentally surprising, catching the viewer completely off-guard. Rebuild, being based on an already existing series, simply can't seem as fresh as the original series.
Yot-chan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-13, 13:14   Link #2315
Guardian Enzo
Seishu's Ace
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kagurazaka, Tokyo
"Some guy" is Yashiuro Kamimura, an old-time Gainax guy who managed the rights for Eva. His wife Noriko was also involved in the merchandising side of the Eva business. They're apparently separated themselves from Gainax and started Ground Works specifically for the purpose of managing the licensing and merch business for "Rebuild".

The key word here is "manage". Anno is notoriously an irascible guy, and there surely is a desire on his part to remove Gainax from active control of anything Rebuild-related. But you can't just walk away from a production company and say "I own this - I'm keeping all the merchandising and licensing rights". It doesn't work that way. See all those Eva links all over the Gainax site (including one to Anno's website)? They still draw a huge financial windfall from Rebuild, even if Anno and the Kamimura's are successful in wresting the creative and management sides of the project away from them. If they had chosen to stop the project they could have, but why? They'll make big money off this whether or not they're actively producing animation or selling t-shirts.
Guardian Enzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-13, 13:27   Link #2316
RisArk
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
I think we have a misunderstanding here.

I'm saying Rebuild was going to happen no matter what, Gainax or no Gainax. What you're saying is why would Gainax detach themselves from Rebuild if they could.
RisArk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-13, 14:55   Link #2317
Archon_Wing
Hater
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Being totally ebillll
Age: 30
Send a message via MSN to Archon_Wing
Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
How about some Eva porn, guys? No? Oh, God... why do I have to even imagine these things? ITS YOUR FAULT, RECKONER!!! Now I'm filled with X-Rated images of giant Rei stomping around... I think I need my pills.
Eva Porn eh? Well... there's some fine....Suddenly thinks of Kawrou.

Quotes Shinji: AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
*Fade to black*
Eyecatch: You can (not) watch porn

On another note, I just realized that everyone I know that watched and liked Eva also liked the Tv ending a lot too.
__________________
What appears to be a moment for the helper feels like an eternity to the helpee.
Avatar and Sig courtesy of TheEroKing
Guild Wars 2 SN: ArchonWing.9480 (Stormbluff Isle)
MyAnimeList || Reviews
Archon_Wing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-13, 17:02   Link #2318
Guardian Enzo
Seishu's Ace
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kagurazaka, Tokyo
Quote:
Originally Posted by RisArk View Post
I think we have a misunderstanding here.

I'm saying Rebuild was going to happen no matter what, Gainax or no Gainax. What you're saying is why would Gainax detach themselves from Rebuild if they could.
Well - to be fair, I think you're only half-right about that. I'm saying that if Gainax didn't want this to happen - for whatever reason - it wouldn't be happening. Where it ties into my larger point is this: everyone involved - Gainax, Anno, etc. - stands to potentially reap a large financial windfall from this project, whether it has any artistic merit or not. Therefore, whether or not there was any pressing non-monetary reason to make the movies is a valid (and I would argue still unanswered) question.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not one of those people saying these are a travesty, they're ruining Eva's legacy, etc. As I said, I found the first two movies very entertaining and beautiful to look at, and so far I don't see any harm done. I'm just longing to see something real and substantive added to the story, and not just the relative bank accounts.
Guardian Enzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-13, 21:43   Link #2319
Reckoner
Bittersweet Distractor
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
Guardian ENZO and BetoJR: Mirrored Cross Game avatars!

A purist's purist... That doesn't sound right, kind of like an elite elitist. :P

Kidding aside, it shows the franchise's appeal, though it worries me that some narrow-minded folks are saying that the Rebuild movies are ruining the franchise for them... And they're not even finished yet. That's like saying Two Towers ruined the Lord of the Rings, even before Return of the King was shown.

Also, aren't some of these people the same ones complaining on and off in the past decade how much GAINAX has been ruining the TV series with every refurbished Edition?
You are definitely a heathen that should be banished from Evangelion fandom. What happened to you?

Well I definitely do feel, that you are not a true Evangelion fan if you can't enjoy the last two episodes and understand them.

Call it elitism, but I enjoy being an elitist in the case of Evangelion. Though as you might be so irked, I'm a youngin' in your eyes, so you probably find it hard to take me that seriously.
Reckoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-13, 22:05   Link #2320
Myssa Rei
Moderate Haruhiist
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Metro Manila, Philippines
Age: 33
Send a message via ICQ to Myssa Rei Send a message via Yahoo to Myssa Rei
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Well I definitely do feel, that you are not a true Evangelion fan if you can't enjoy the last two episodes and understand them.

Call it elitism, but I enjoy being an elitist in the case of Evangelion. Though as you might be so irked, I'm a youngin' in your eyes, so you probably find it hard to take me that seriously.
Oh I did like the last two episodes of the EVA TV series; I mentioned several times that it was very easy to empathize with what the characters were going through, since at the time I was also going through the psychological wringer, so to speak. And it wasn't what you could call emo, but full-blown medical depression... which, unfortunately, the family couldn't afford the medicine to treat. Also, if you're wondering, nope, there were no counselors either, so I had to walk through what amounted to my inner Hell alone.

I think I came though it pretty well though; I may be on the way to being an old maid, but (like Anno) I stared into the darkness, and came out with a better appreciation of the world in general. I've become, hmm, more open-minded I guess -- facing one's personal daemons can do that to a person. Of course, more than a decade's worth of anime watching could be a factor as well.

Being narrow-minded only works when you're an Inquisitor in Warhammer 40k anyway.

So I have both age AND experience on my side (not to mention a small room's worth of EVA-swag, many of which some people would kill to have) when it comes to my appreciation of the series as a whole. I embrace the changes brought by Rebuild, because as someone who's been following the meta-franchise for a good fifteen or so years, I can see how it adds to the franchise as a whole. It doesn't detract at all from the TV series, but enhances it, at the same time standing very well on its own.
__________________

Last edited by Myssa Rei; 2010-06-13 at 22:16.
Myssa Rei is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
movie, remake

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.