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Old 2008-05-06, 14:42   Link #721
Kisuke06
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Originally Posted by cors8 View Post
Well I guess the twist was Yui and Rei's decision to leave it up to Shinji.

Gendo and Shinji's relationship was just too damaged without some serious and continuous intervention by someone both cares about.
Hm, you do have a point there.
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Old 2008-05-06, 16:10   Link #722
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Originally Posted by cors8 View Post
What more do you want?

AT fields are the barrier between human souls so they can never truly understand each other and will keep them separate.

Hedgehog's Dilemma is the idea that humans will consistently hurt each other when they try to get close to each other. However, under the right conditions/approach, they can come together and create something beautiful.

Gendo and Shinji just wasn't able to find a way that worked for both of them.
True. Though doesn't change the fact he was such a shitty father. Could have send Shinji a Christmas card or something.
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Old 2008-05-06, 19:16   Link #723
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So, not new to Eva, but not exactly old either. Just finished watching 1.0, and wow, was awesome, and . But I've always wondered, what does the "AT" in "AT Field" mean?
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Old 2008-05-06, 20:03   Link #724
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"Absolute Terror".

Not the prettiest Engrish phrase, I'm afraid.
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Old 2008-05-07, 00:03   Link #725
Guardian Enzo
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Gendo - as a "normal father"? That's a new one for me. Glad I didn't grow up in that house...
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Old 2008-05-07, 00:18   Link #726
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Gendo - as a "normal father"? That's a new one for me. Glad I didn't grow up in that house...
It wouldn't be bad at all as long as Yui is there. All bets are off if she's gone though.
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Old 2008-05-07, 01:56   Link #727
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
Well, then the magic of the ending is lost in you. Yes, I'm also a firm believer on the inevitability of things and the illusion of free will, but I don't quite think that is the point EoE wanted to make. For once in the series, Shinji made the choice, his own selfish choice. It's the first time he considers what he really wants for himself when choosing his path. He could have chosen a "perfect" future, but he chose imperfection in order to retain his current humanity and the possibilities of the unpredictable. Whether you think this was inevitable or not I believe is not really important for the point Anno wanted to make.
I don't think I really missed out on the magic personally. In the end, destinies are predetermined especially if there's such a powerful mechanism such as the Instrumentality Project that goes either way. Sure, SEELE's plans were dashed in the process, but ultimately Yui's wishes (and Shinji's obviously) were fulfilled. I don't really blame anyone for there being a lack of a true choice. I think Anno himself has said that there was room for subjectivity as far as that is concerned. I personally think it's too convenient that there's two choices and either of them basically means the progress of humanity one way or the other. All destruction goes overridden by rebirth. It's almost like with the most basic notion of death too. No matter how you die, the end result is the same, more or less.

As for Gendo's father being 'normal', I actually have to somewhat agree to that. My own father was basically the same thing. I can't remember when I was actually praised for anything. It didn't do me any favors ala Shinji psychologically, but those types are out there. But yeah, I would hate to think that's the norm actually.
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Old 2008-05-07, 04:37   Link #728
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reguarding the discusion about gendo.
for some reason i always made a comparison between gendo and god and shinji and jesus.
gendo just like god is sacrifying his own son for the sake mankind just like god did only to have jesus coming back to life (can be shinji returning from his dissolved state in LCL or his "rebirth" at the end of the movie when he makes the good choice).
now i cant answer if this comparison stands, can we concider that the action of gendo toward shinji were dictated by "god" himself or were his actions dictated by his ego, pride and his aspiration to be the new god of mankind and was trying in the process to mimic god's doing.
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Old 2008-05-07, 07:43   Link #729
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Originally Posted by D a m i e n View Post
reguarding the discusion about gendo.
for some reason i always made a comparison between gendo and god and shinji and jesus.
gendo just like god is sacrifying his own son for the sake mankind just like god did only to have jesus coming back to life (can be shinji returning from his dissolved state in LCL or his "rebirth" at the end of the movie when he makes the good choice).
now i cant answer if this comparison stands, can we concider that the action of gendo toward shinji were dictated by "god" himself or were his actions dictated by his ego, pride and his aspiration to be the new god of mankind and was trying in the process to mimic god's doing.
Not even close. Gendo first joined NERV for wealth and power. He even married Yui only because her father is a Seele member. Later his goal changed when Yui died, realized that he missed her, and decided he will hijack Seele's goals and attempt to gain the ability to see his wife again.

Mankind has nothing to do with anything at all as far as Gendo is concerned; he is as selfish as he was when he started, still trying to have something he wants and sacrificing everyone else to get to it. Godhood is not what he want (not since Yui died), it is just a means to an end.
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Old 2008-05-07, 20:25   Link #730
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I'm not so sure I'd dismiss it that easily. I think Anno did intend for Shinji to be a Christ figure to some extent - and I do think Gendo considering himself a God is part of that. Certainly, Shinji was made to suffer extensively for the sake of mankind (or so it was sold to him , anyway).
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Old 2008-05-07, 21:39   Link #731
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I'm not so sure I'd dismiss it that easily. I think Anno did intend for Shinji to be a Christ figure to some extent - and I do think Gendo considering himself a God is part of that.
I think it was just the contrary. Evangelion dwells so much on symbolism that many people, in my opinion, misinterpret it for some kind of religious statement or something of the sorts. I believe Anno was merely using Shinji as a vehicle for communicating the oppressiveness of Japanese society. One of the reasons why Evangelion was so revolutionary is due to the fact that Shinji is probably the first hero that is absolutely the opposite to the classic epic mecha/adventure hero. He is one of the first characters that, instead of being the embodiment of their fantasies, crystallized the reality of many of those who watched the series. That's the main reason behind the genius and the influence Evangelion has had until today. Those who despise his character for being too "emo" are, most certainly, not getting the point.

Anyone who's watched the show and hasn't read this needs to do so ASAP. What I said only scratched the surface of what's said in that article, and despite my extreme dislike of ANN, I have to admit it's a really good article (of course, it's from another time, so that'd explain why it's ANN and it's actually good).
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Old 2008-05-07, 22:42   Link #732
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God, I read that ages, ago... It's nicely written, but an opinion - just like all the rest of them. Frankly, I suspect even Anno himself doesn't understand some of the symbolism in Eva - it just spilled out as a kind of self-therapy. So i think we'll be arguing about all of this until fourth impact.
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Old 2008-05-08, 00:33   Link #733
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Frankly, I suspect even Anno himself doesn't understand some of the symbolism in Eva - it just spilled out as a kind of self-therapy
Well... actually, that's what I believe, too. That's why I said I don't believe in Shinji as a parallelism of Christ.
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Old 2008-05-08, 01:34   Link #734
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I don't see what's wrong with having your own personal spin on it. Anno purporsefully made it a show wide open to interpretation. I think it's stifling to say that there's only one way to look at it. That takes the fun out of it.

As for Gendo's selfishness, that is the OBVIOUS aspect of it. But as smart and devious as he truly is, he must have known, at least subconsciously that acting in self interest and for Yui's actually was all about saving humanity. Both goals were not mutually exclusive of one another. They were directly connected. The show's end proved as much. We don't know exactly how they'll do it with the Rebuild's ending, but I suspect we'll see something similar.
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Old 2008-05-08, 02:21   Link #735
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I don't see what's wrong with having your own personal spin on it. Anno purporsefully made it a show wide open to interpretation. I think it's stifling to say that there's only one way to look at it. That takes the fun out of it.
Oh, I'm not denying that. I actually defended the very same point you're making extensively on an old blog post of mine (don't bother looking too much into that blog other than that article, I never put too much effort into it).

That's why I said "I believe" and "in my opinion". Art is completed, for all intents and purposes, in the eye of the beholder.
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Old 2008-05-08, 03:27   Link #736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Not even close. Gendo first joined NERV for wealth and power. He even married Yui only because her father is a Seele member. Later his goal changed when Yui died, realized that he missed her, and decided he will hijack Seele's goals and attempt to gain the ability to see his wife again.

Mankind has nothing to do with anything at all as far as Gendo is concerned; he is as selfish as he was when he started, still trying to have something he wants and sacrificing everyone else to get to it. Godhood is not what he want (not since Yui died), it is just a means to an end.
like i said i only watched eva once 10+years ago at a rate of 3 eps every 3 month (the release rate of the VHS at that time) i wasnt paying enought attention to show at that time and had more than enought time to forget some details about the background of the characters. beside i was getting more and more pissed since the show was getting more confusing for me every eps i stoped paying close attention so my interpretations of the show are the one i did as a 16year old boy and i never bother rewatching the serie again as i was pissed at the money i "lost" in buying the VHS, and i never bothered trying to read any interview or comment from the author.
that s why my interpretations are flawed (not like they would be perfect now but if i had the courage to rewatch the serie again i would prolly come up with some stuff that makes more sense)
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Old 2008-05-08, 03:33   Link #737
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I remembered Anno was asked in the interview that was Eva has anything to do with religions, chirstianity. His answer was simple No. He said he used christians symbols because they were 'cool'. Nothing related to God and Christ but certainly one can easily relate to as it's open for interpretation.

I chuckled, hearing such reply.
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Old 2008-05-08, 04:15   Link #738
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I don't think I entirely buy that argument. The religious motif and all its paradoxes seems to have spilled over. I think Anno meant that religion was not the source material for the show, period. But rather that the themery was liberally borrowed along with all the psychological themes he incorporated. If you ask him if the show was based on psychology or classical music or old mecha, you'd probably get the 'no' answer all the time. Anno seems pretty fickle like that.
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Old 2008-05-08, 09:46   Link #739
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Well Ive always thought that the symbols and themes had meaning in the shows context, however he wasnt really trying to make any commentary on religion or Christianity. To me if you want the bare bones meaning of the series especially EoE, its simply life can be crap when growing up and often in life...shit happens. Life doesnt necessarily get better as you grow older but your ability to cope with it hopefully does...

Inevitably interacting with people will also get you hurt sometimes...its difficult to really understand others since you spend half the time trying to understand yourself. While you will feel pain, sorrow and anguish it makes you truly appreciate the times when you experience joy, happiness and love. In the end its better to feel these myriad of emotions rather than not feeling anything at all. To FEEL is to be HUMAN. To FEEL is to be ALIVE.
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Old 2008-05-08, 13:43   Link #740
Kisuke06
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Originally Posted by ichobi View Post
I remembered Anno was asked in the interview that was Eva has anything to do with religions, chirstianity. His answer was simple No. He said he used christians symbols because they were 'cool'. Nothing related to God and Christ but certainly one can easily relate to as it's open for interpretation.

I chuckled, hearing such reply.
Yeah, I guess most of the stuff you end up reading about Evangelion is stuff the fans "discovered."
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