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Old 2009-08-09, 15:39   Link #1541
Negativedark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
If you add the unnamed Angels from the artbooks, then that brings the number to a whopping 22 Angels, which means that seven Angels are missing in the picture.
In the original proposal there were going to be 28 angels. Well at this point they were called apostles.

And you can always tell who the biggest fans are. Their the ones who bitch the most, are the most negative, and will if you examine carefully, show that apparently their is absolutly no part of the franchise your talking about that they actually like. Strange that they are such big fans of something they hate so much.

Now lets take a look at some of the missing angels. Several of them are ones that attacked the minds. And my theory as to why they are taken out is because they have more of a budget this time. Simply put, a mind rape episode was probably cheaper and easier to animate than an actual fight. Leiliel just sat their as a shadow and ball, and let thinks sink in. Arael sat in orbit bieng glowie, and mindraped Asuka. Armisal at least moved some before mindraping Rei. The fight involving Iruel involved a lot of typing. But these were probably the easy ones to animate too. However Rebuild has no budget problems (yet). So they take them out. This is probably because of the fact that for the new movies they wanted it to be faster paced. Simeler to what was done with the new Star Trek Movie. Now their are a few other angels that the absense of is harder to pin down. Gahgiel is absent, and I'm guessing that he was replaced in order to streamline Asuka's introduction. And poor, poor Material was the most pathetic of the angels. So they either went with the more interesting angels, redesigned them to show off what they could do, and threw in a few new ones to keep us on our toes.
Another thing that has gotten some complaint, is Asuka in this movie. Some people complain about the name change. I figure that Anno just wanted theme naming for the girls. The charecter stuff is odder though. Asuka has been serously softened, even more than the others. What's more she has greatly had her signifigance to the naritive reduced. Before she was probably the fourth most signifigant charecter after Shinji, Misato, and Gendo (feel free to dissagree about that. I'm not sure if I do myself.) But now it seems that Asuka's signifigance has dimmished, and is definitly less than Rei's. And of course she seems to have less screentime. Now I see two major reasons for this, and I will cover both.
1-Mari- The new girl. Other than selling more merchendise, I do not know what Mari is doing in this story. Their has been very little in the plot thus far that actually requires Mari. Just about everything that she's done Asuka could have, except, piloting Unit-02 in the final battle. Asuka could have fought the third angel easy. Hell if Toji were still the pilot of unit-03 then Asuka could still have had the fight against Zuerel. So Mari had better have a big reveal about her plot importance for the next movie
2-Acessability- Just like the new Star Trek movie would have sucked to non-fans if it had been full of Treknobabble and 40 minutes of debating wether or not crossing the nutral zone to save the andorian ambassador would be worth it, spending too much time in mind scenes with weird imagery would have just killed it for non-fans. Simply put it would have been a bad idea to require three psych courses and frame by frame to understand what is going on in a theatrical movie. Remember, you cannot frame by frame in theaters. Also Anno may well have different viewpoints now, and may simply not want to do things the same way with rebuild as he did with the show. Sadly this means Asuka gets lessened a bit. Well we still have something one and a half movies to go, so who knows.

PS, just so everyone knows, when I got into Eva, I was expecting something like Gunbuster. So it's not like I consider these changes bad...
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Last edited by Negativedark; 2009-08-09 at 16:24.
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Old 2009-08-09, 18:03   Link #1542
SoldierOfDarkness
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Well for starters it's a movie so you can't have the exact same detail as it is in the show. Some things have to be dropped in favour of others.

The 1st seemed to restart the Eva story since it was following it pretty closely with few deviations. Then the 2nd one went off on a tangent with a different plot than what the show was following and I think it's purpose was also to introduce the new characters such as Mari and Kawoui (Yes I know he was in the show but bringing him here like that changes things).

I think these two set the stage for 3 and 4 which will be a completely new story though didn't they say that movie 4 will have a different conclusion?
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Old 2009-08-09, 20:00   Link #1543
Negativedark
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You know I hope that the english versions of the dvds somehow have any commentary tracks that might be on the japanese. I would imagine them to be most interesting.

Personally I'm very glad that they didn't just reanimate the exact same story. This keeps us guessing, and talking.
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Old 2009-08-09, 23:21   Link #1544
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I read that review earlier.

Clearly you can read he's just angry Asuka was pushed aside.
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Old 2009-08-10, 00:55   Link #1545
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Originally Posted by RisArk View Post
I read that review earlier.

Clearly you can read he's just angry Asuka was pushed aside.
I don't think so...I think he's being sincere in his reasons why he disliked the movie. I think the problem with his review is that he started from the (widely-held) assumption that anything Eva is designed to make a profit first, and anything else second. THAT'S what colors the review, not anger about Asuka.

I don't really get all the Asuka hand-wringing. I'm a big, big Asuka fan; always have been, always will be. I was really looking forward to this movie in large part because I wanted to see her shine. And I got that. Shes still sparkling, she's still bitchy, and she's still a hell of an Eva pilot. What's to get upset about?
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Old 2009-08-10, 03:13   Link #1546
ac195
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Regarding the Colony Drop review and Hideaki Anno... I'd always thought that he was know for his strong remarks against the otaku community? Like the infamous Shinji scene in the first set of Eva movies and his famous "I'm so fucked up..." line.

After reading the review, I feel like hes done a 180 and just gave in... Still, I can't blame him for it... there's really no sense in fighting an endless war... and hell, if pandering is gonna give him the bigger bucks... more power to him (insert evil laugh here... and yes I too find it rather delicious ).
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Old 2009-08-10, 08:04   Link #1547
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Originally Posted by ac195 View Post
Regarding the Colony Drop review and Hideaki Anno... I'd always thought that he was know for his strong remarks against the otaku community? Like the infamous Shinji scene in the first set of Eva movies and his famous "I'm so fucked up..." line.
Was that a comment on otaku culture? I just thought it was a comment on Shinji.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ac195 View Post
After reading the review, I feel like hes done a 180 and just gave in... Still, I can't blame him for it... there's really no sense in fighting an endless war... and hell, if pandering is gonna give him the bigger bucks... more power to him (insert evil laugh here... and yes I too find it rather delicious ).
For a goog thirteen-to-fifteen episodes, the Eva TV series was an otaku's wet dream come true. I don't see how the movie is much different, really.

And, again, why is it only Eva that gets accused of only being about the money. Gundam is much more about the bottom line, especially these days.
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Old 2009-08-10, 08:19   Link #1548
Negativedark
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A lot of what happened in Rebuild may have been because Anno has changed since he did the original Eva. As I understand it Anno was in a very rough time in his life when he did the TV series. I've heard he's a lot less depressed and upset now. It's also possible that is why he's changed the charecters. He may not relate as much to the persoanlities of the tv show and has changed them accordingly.
About the merchendising aspect. I don't think Anno controls that. While he made Eva, he doesn't really own it, I think mostly Gainex, Star King, and Sega do. I have however heard that he insisted they let Eva be put in Super Robot Wars, although I don't know how accurate that is. Also if I remember correctly When Gainex was first formed, didn't they pride themselves on bieng Otaku? They did make Otaku no Video.
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Old 2009-08-10, 09:13   Link #1549
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Spoiler for ...:
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Old 2009-08-10, 11:17   Link #1550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ac195 View Post
I'd like to know from anyone who has seen 2.0. Is this unjustified or valid?

http://www.colonydrop.com/index.php/...ime-and?blog=1
Just watch it, camrip is doing good for me, I liked it.

The dude is probably trolling, its amusing that he comments he's "being intentionally naive." Money has always been a factor in a lot of human activities.

Besides he makes comments about the story and how certain aspects have no purpose. The problem with his assertion is that the movies have yet to end, so stating that certain aspects have no purpose is baseless. He may be proven right or wrong, but until we see the end, hold your horses.

Same comment to his artistic value statement. If he meant technical production, no comment, lol.

The way I understand him, it seems he just wants the old series updated with current animating tools. That's cool, I'd like that too. But I'm also liking Rebuild, especially the way Rei is being depicted.
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Old 2009-08-10, 11:41   Link #1551
Negativedark
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On the subject of things yet to be revealed... Oh I really hope Mari has some surprise for us. C'mon Mari, true head of Seele! Or an angel! Or she's got a fridge full of heads from her victims!
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Old 2009-08-10, 13:46   Link #1552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ac195 View Post
I'd like to know from anyone who has seen 2.0. Is this unjustified or valid?

http://www.colonydrop.com/index.php/...ime-and?blog=1
When a blog goes on with sentences like this about itself:

Quote:
(Does Evangelion hate anime fans more or less than Colony Drop does? The answer to this question is for you, dear reader, to decide.)
Then you know it mostly goes for the base shock of trying to gutpunch and bait its audience. In other words, glorified trolling. Their opinions are mostly shot down in value by that.
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Old 2009-08-10, 16:50   Link #1553
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Was that a comment on otaku culture? I just thought it was a comment on Shinji.


For a goog thirteen-to-fifteen episodes, the Eva TV series was an otaku's wet dream come true. I don't see how the movie is much different, really.

And, again, why is it only Eva that gets accused of only being about the money. Gundam is much more about the bottom line, especially these days.
sadly works like NGE are remembered the people want to remember them. Nowadays you'd think NGE was just the last 2 episodes and the movie.
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Old 2009-08-10, 17:08   Link #1554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Negativedark View Post
On the subject of things yet to be revealed... Oh I really hope Mari has some surprise for us. C'mon Mari, true head of Seele! Or an angel! Or she's got a fridge full of heads from her victims!
Well she's what? Naked in the preview in a meeting? That's gotta mean something big is happening.

Quote:
I think the problem with his review is that he started from the (widely-held) assumption that anything Eva is designed to make a profit first, and anything else second. THAT'S what colors the review, not anger about Asuka.
These things exist to make a profit. This has been set in stone since the beginning of time, if it ain't making money then no one's going to support it.

Money first, everything else second. NGE was not made to cure cancer for the benefits of mankind.
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Old 2009-08-10, 20:44   Link #1555
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
These things exist to make a profit. This has been set in stone since the beginning of time, if it ain't making money then no one's going to support it.

Money first, everything else second. NGE was not made to cure cancer for the benefits of mankind.
Most true. I'm not saying that Eva wasn't designed to make a profit (it was), I'm just saying that it's unfair to paint Eva - and Eva ONLY - as being a profit-based anime.
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Old 2009-08-10, 21:12   Link #1556
SoldierOfDarkness
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Oh I know what you mean. It's just I'm annoyed when people critize things and the thing they focus on is the money part.

I mean seriously......
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Old 2009-08-11, 15:52   Link #1557
Negativedark
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Actually I think that the whole "Anno just did it for the merchendise proceeds" aurguement can be shot down damn quick by one thing. He's not even at Gainex anymore. Rebuild is bieng done by he new Studio, Khara, under licence from Gainex. So if Anno isn't at Gainex, it's not like he had a huge amount of corprate control.
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Old 2009-08-12, 10:48   Link #1558
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Well, Gainax still gets a cut of the profits. Same diff.
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Old 2009-08-15, 22:46   Link #1559
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Originally Posted by Negativedark View Post
On the subject of things yet to be revealed... Oh I really hope Mari has some surprise for us. C'mon Mari, true head of Seele! Or an angel! Or she's got a fridge full of heads from her victims!
She's clearly a wild card of some sort...but what kind? Who sent her? Does NERV even know she's there?

Really, I think of all the mysteries that will have to be addressed in the next movie(s), I think Mari's role is the one that has me the most curious.

Well, that and
Spoiler for Eva 3.0 stuff:
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Old 2009-08-16, 16:25   Link #1560
Negativedark
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Well I'm wondering about the exact wording of that.
Spoiler for The above post:
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