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Old 2006-08-13, 10:30   Link #41
Skyfall
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Yes, there was a lot of manpover, but it still wasnt enaugh in the end :P After all Shinn himself said that Freedom is the strongest unit at the time, so it seems logical to counter it with the best they have. Besides, Impulse is the only Gundam ZAFT has at that time, so its no surprise its Minerva's mission to take it out.

Biggest plothole of Freedomed ep was Kira surviving it, let alone without any injuries.
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Old 2006-08-13, 10:38   Link #42
Last_Hope
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall
Yes, there was a lot of manpover, but it still wasnt enaugh in the end :P After all Shinn himself said that Freedom is the strongest unit at the time, so it seems logical to counter it with the best they have. Besides, Impulse is the only Gundam ZAFT has at that time, so its no surprise its Minerva's mission to take it out.
True but still. All that, the regular forces, felt like an overkill.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall
Biggest plothole of Freedomed ep was Kira surviving it, let alone without any injuries.
He did have some bandages.

But yeah. The Angel down episode was full of plotholes and that is one of them. Although my favourite is Shinn switching his weaponry from saber to laser quicker than Lucky Luke.
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Old 2006-08-13, 11:34   Link #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last_Hope
Of course you can.


Kira losing Freedom is full of plotholes. As a lot of other fights in Destiny.
Now that got me thinking. Was there one fight in CE that was completely free of plot holes?
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Old 2006-08-13, 11:36   Link #44
grandmaster192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper
Now that got me thinking. Was there one fight in CE that was completely free of plot holes?
hmm.....what about Le Creuset vs Kira? That battle was ok.
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Old 2006-08-13, 11:41   Link #45
Last_Hope
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper
Now that got me thinking. Was there one fight in CE that was completely free of plot holes?
Mu´s battles were pretty free of plotholes I believe?


Quote:
Originally Posted by grandmaster192
hmm.....what about Le Creuset vs Kira? That battle was ok.
Depends on how you look at Kira surviving the shot from Genesis. But I guess just the fight is free of plot holes. Kira´s berserker SEED is within the boundaries of the show.



Listenened to the first SEED OST today. Damn that was nostalgic. I have got to rewatch SEED again.
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Old 2006-08-13, 12:13   Link #46
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(I'm only a mainstream viewer, don't expect me to provide some valid and worthy reasons )

Best :
- the 7 or 8 first episodes where I still had interest and Athrun was awesome.
- When Cagalli got her bling bling MS (yes, I'm a Cagalli fangirl ).

Worst :
- Definitely episode 46 with the "Pretty woman" sequence.
- Episode 50 : "All these episodes for...THAT!"
- Jesus Christ, it's a recap...again! Get in the car!
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Old 2006-08-13, 12:39   Link #47
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Originally Posted by Last_Hope
Mus battles were pretty free of plotholes I believe?
*Cough* being hit by Dominion's positron or whatever canon, being desintigrated, and coming back with as much as a scar on his face beats anything else you can think of i believe
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Old 2006-08-13, 13:43   Link #48
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Originally Posted by Skyfall
*Cough* being hit by Dominion's positron or whatever canon, being desintigrated, and coming back with as much as a scar on his face beats anything else you can think of i believe
Ah yeah. I forgot that one...
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Old 2006-08-13, 13:48   Link #49
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Worst:
Heaven's Base- Need I say why? LOGOS was winning (and EAF grunts were actually killing things) then the DEM Gundams show up and it all goes to shit. Destroy deserved better than that...

The Flock of Windams debacle- nuff said

The announcement of LOGOS' existence- Let me get this straight: the leader of an enemy nation comes on TV and says "your government is being led by an evil organization" and people actually believed him? And actually acted on it! Would have been better, story-wise, if LOGOS had never actually existed and Dullindal was just manipulating the idiot masses of CE into doing his dirty work for him (I believe one of the people the mob kills even implies this, actually!)

Episode 34- It felt kind of half-assed. Not only do Shinn fans crow about it, but it's full of plotholes and wierd crap. At the very least, I wanted Kira to shoot down a bunch of Impulse's replacement parts. Then there's the matter of the magical beam tip on Impulse's sword...
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Old 2006-08-13, 19:23   Link #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Hope
Yeah, but (ZAFT) using that much manpower to go after a single vessel when you´re at war with the Earth Alliance. Isn´t that overdoing things a bit?
First off have you seen the EAF?? They're about as big a threat to ZAFT as this mosquito on my arm...

Secondly, have you seen eps 23 and 28?? With the AA pwning everyone and screwing ZAFT over...Also in ep 34 don't you hear that old commander telling the young commander that he don't know jack about the legendary AA and their MS FREEDOM...and how they almost single-handedly won the last war (and how they can't just attack them with full strength, but also be smart and wait for the MINERVA)....All things considered (Like Dully's biggest fear of them being the one spoil in his plans), they didn't send enuff troops...They shoulda pulled an Alexander The Great on their a$$ess...So no they didn't overdo it, they actually underdid it..If they could have sent out Rey and Luna they might have had a chance to shoot the AA down while the Good vs. Evil Gundam duked it out...
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Old 2006-08-13, 20:20   Link #51
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since the best and lousys are mixed together, i can't really differentiate which episode is which.. but i can still remember the parts i really hang on it every week (means that until now i still watch my favourite scenes in GSD eery week XD)

1st: Athrun ripping Shinn skillfully in bandage
2nd: The appearance of SF
3rd: The association of Athrun, Yzak n Dearka

The lousy parts?? too many.. even i cannot describe it... >.<
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Old 2006-08-13, 21:10   Link #52
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Amen to that, Ryuujin. I never got why the whole world ate that shit right out of Gilbert's hand. Without even questioning it. Total hogwash.
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Old 2006-08-13, 21:23   Link #53
Nightengale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness
First off have you seen the EAF?? They're about as big a threat to ZAFT as this mosquito on my arm...

Secondly, have you seen eps 23 and 28?? With the AA pwning everyone and screwing ZAFT over...Also in ep 34 don't you hear that old commander telling the young commander that he don't know jack about the legendary AA and their MS FREEDOM...and how they almost single-handedly won the last war (and how they can't just attack them with full strength, but also be smart and wait for the MINERVA)....All things considered (Like Dully's biggest fear of them being the one spoil in his plans), they didn't send enuff troops...They shoulda pulled an Alexander The Great on their a$$ess...So no they didn't overdo it, they actually underdid it..If they could have sent out Rey and Luna they might have had a chance to shoot the AA down while the Good vs. Evil Gundam duked it out...
It's not looking at logic. People who's rational knows that EA by statictics are way better than ZAFT and by statistics are infinitely better than ORB, much less a squad of battleships. However, when one pilot can destroy 30 Windams with no sweat, statistics is out of the house.

And while chasing AA wasn't exactly a bad episode per say since the situation and what happened in the battle demands that AA being treated as a worrisome existence is rational (( we can always assume LOGOS was primary, but AA is one the route to LOGOS )), Dully's crap reasonings in Phase 36 made it totally shit and I can't believe that Athrun actually fell for his crap until Meer appeared. He talked jack about "whee AA don' t join me, so I can blast their asses away. Oh, and since I'm such a nice guy who tries to actually talk before fight, for some reason, I never asked AA for help on my own initiative. At. All." AA themselves were not sure whether or not they can or cannot trust Dullindal, and Dullindal's clearly not trying to reach out to them and shatter that opinion of him from AA since he's trying to kill them. In fact, if Dullindal actually tried to reach out to Lacus and co. and arrange a meeting, whatever whatever pacifist talks to prove that he walks the road of peace and wasn't the assassin (( however that is possible )), he could've positioned himself way better.
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Old 2006-08-13, 21:26   Link #54
Nightengale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-Wan
Amen to that, Ryuujin. I never got why the whole world ate that shit right out of Gilbert's hand. Without even questioning it. Total hogwash.
Forget the world. Even Athrun eats Dullindal's Phase 36 bullshit. Those reasonings to initiate Operation Angel Down was some of the most vague, unprecendented reasonings that sound really really nice (( especiallty when voiced by Ikeda )), but at core, is total nonsense, considering Dullindal's supposedly some nice guy pacifist who talk before fight. Even that I don't intend to fight a war with LOGOS shit is total bull.
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Old 2006-08-13, 23:06   Link #55
wingdarkness
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The moment you've been waiting for^^...

Top 5 BEST executed episodes:

Spoiler for Ep1 Enraged Eyes:


Spoiler for Ep3 Ominous Gunfire:


Spoiler for Ep19 Unseen Truth:



Spoiler for Ep28 The Remaining Life, The Fallen Life:


Spoiler for Ep 36 Athrun Escapes:


Don't get me wrong there were a few eps in the first half of the show that had some questionable execution, but the eps in the second-half that did were much more glaring...

Top 5 worst executed episodes

Spoiler for Ep29 FATES:


Spoiler for Ep37 The Thundering Darkness:


Spoiler for Ep40 Golden Intentions:


Spoiler for ep42 Freedom and Justice:


Spoiler for Ep50 Final Power //Final Plus:


Agree? Disagree? Hate me?

I await the debate...
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Last edited by wingdarkness; 2006-08-14 at 03:50. Reason: syntax cleanup...
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Old 2006-08-14, 00:19   Link #56
grandmaster192
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WD, I think the episode 42 was pretty cool. Seeing Shinn take on a better gundam like that was pretty cool. I mean we didn't get to see the Destiny in action that mutch and I think he did a good job against the the Super god Freedom.
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Old 2006-08-14, 00:57   Link #57
Obi-Wan
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Freedom was never, never, ever shown as delibrately firing its beams at Shinn's family. It was always, always, always crossfire between Freedom and Calamity. But somehow because of a real botched Kira vs Shinn rivalry (if you can even call it that, more like Shinn vs Freedom), it has to be assumed that Kira's shot was delibrately intended for Shinn's family.

Seriously, all of you that think Freedom did it go fucking watch episode one again and take a good look at that sequence. Let me break it down for you in case you're too dumb to see it.

1. Calamity fires

2. Freedom fires

3. Big Explosion

4. Shinn goes flying

5. Oh shit bloody body parts everywhere

Crossfire people. CROSSFIRE. C-R-O-S-S-F-I-R-E.

You do not know how fucking angry it makes me every time I see "OMGZ BUT FREEDOM TOTALLY KILLED HIS FAM YO!" Right up there with "Freedom was made for Yzak dude!" and "Kira has a no killing policy!!" Jesus people totally fail at watching anime sometimes.

@Nightengale

For what it's worth, and I know that no one is going to know this since SE II isn't out yet, but I translated it so I may as well throw this out there, in the scene where Durandal talks to Athrun about the Archangel after the tea party discussion with everyone else, he says to Athrun that he wants to get in contact with Archangel to see if they'll fight alongside him (in the series he says he wants to find them because he thinks Lacus is with them and wants her to come back to the PLANTs).

I know it's not much but I'm pretty sure they're going to change his lines in SE III during that part of ep 36 to say "I tried to ask for their help but they didn't want to play with me!" or some shit. If anything it makes the situation worse because god knows the only methods of "getting in touch" with Archangel he took was a team of special ops Coordinators he sent to Orb before they even left.
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Old 2006-08-14, 01:10   Link #58
Nightengale
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I know Dullindal talked about contacting AA and Lacus. What I was referring to was Athrun believing (( albeit hesitantly, and slightly furious )) at Gilly's bullshit at Phase 36. Athrun of all people should've known that Kira and co. was wary, but it's not like they were "Dullindal sent those ASHes. I know it. I can feel the force telling me" and following Gilbert's words on how blah blah blah he wants to work together, he should had known that AA never recieved any coms or messages of peace/negotiation/alliance from Gilbert directly or indirectly, and Gilbert never wanted to, cause he wants them dead. Especially Kira and Lacus.

Seriously, Athrun must've failed Psychology class or something. Dullindal's tricks were the oldest tricks of pushing someone back via ridiculous questionings of the why? they? you? should? method.
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Old 2006-08-14, 01:59   Link #59
wingdarkness
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Episode 1

CALAMITY shoots then FREEDOM with all 30 of it's weapons shoots...After Freedom shoots Shinn's family dies indirectly...CALAMITY is aiming toward FREEDOM which is up...FREEDOM is aiming toward CALAMITY which is down...I don't know about those people watching the Spoon-eps xD, but if you watched the TV broadcasts eps this is what happened...

One blast shooting up at FREEDOM vs. like 40 beams coming from FREEDOM (shooting down) at CALAMITY which is near ground level (Near where Shinn and his family is)...Now do you think CALAMITY's airborne shot or Kira's plethora of beams were the culprit? But don't worry Kira-irrationals...Fukuda and his wife saw what I saw so in episode 20 (11:19) FREEDOM is totally removed from Shinn's flashback as not to suggest what episode 1 surley does...Anime is about interpretating what you see...One person thinks "oh that had to be a crossfire", while another person sees Kira as the last person who took the shot aiming in a direction that requires one to put 2 + 2 together...But Jesus people totally fail at T-H-O-U-G-H-T sometimes....
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Old 2006-08-14, 02:09   Link #60
Skyfall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-Wan
Freedom was never, never, ever shown as delibrately firing its beams at Shinn's family. It was always, always, always crossfire between Freedom and Calamity. But somehow because of a real botched Kira vs Shinn rivalry (if you can even call it that, more like Shinn vs Freedom), it has to be assumed that Kira's shot was delibrately intended for Shinn's family.

Seriously, all of you that think Freedom did it go fucking watch episode one again and take a good look at that sequence. Let me break it down for you in case you're too dumb to see it.

1. Calamity fires

2. Freedom fires

3. Big Explosion

4. Shinn goes flying

5. Oh shit bloody body parts everywhere

Crossfire people. CROSSFIRE. C-R-O-S-S-F-I-R-E.

You do not know how fucking angry it makes me every time I see "OMGZ BUT FREEDOM TOTALLY KILLED HIS FAM YO!" Right up there with "Freedom was made for Yzak dude!" and "Kira has a no killing policy!!" Jesus people totally fail at watching anime sometimes.

Excuse me, did you want them to show Freedom walking up to Shinn's family, Kira doing a maniacal laugh and then stomp on them ? First part - Freedom fires his rifle at Calamity and hits ground just behind Shinn's family, creating an explosion just behind their family. All is ok and they continue running and Shinn runs to get the cell phone.

Calamity(standing on ground) fires at freedom(flying in air) and misses, Freedom spreads its wings and spams its beams down on Calamity. We see a big boom and Shinn's family is gone. If your Kira fanboyism prevents you from doing 2+2 i cant help you.

And Freedom was made for Yzak, its only logical considering he was the second best pilot in the ZAFT, whose mother is member of council and Zala supporter. But hey, its not like you will notice the facts because you obviously think that ZAFT built Freedom for Kira to steal it so the Clyne faction would have better chanse at beating ZAFT and EA.

You truly fail at watching this


@WD lol, we made pretty similar posts at the same time :P
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