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Old 2008-06-02, 08:57   Link #921
_kira_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serenade_beta View Post
Colbert is a triangle mage.
Tabitha was a triangle mage until volume 13, where she learned to use square class spells.

Louise's mother is indeed a square mage.
Waldo is also a square class mage, if that is the Marquis you are talking about.

Orlean (Tabitha's father) was also one, but he is dead.
Vasso was one too, but he died in volume 14.

That should be all. So 2, 3 if you count Tabitha.
so tabitha is already a square class mage, and it seems waldo is one as well, so next to the void mages they seem to be next in power levels, i noticed that the two of them specialized in wind magic so it may also seem that after void, wind is likely to be the next most powerful or most destructive...
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Old 2008-06-02, 09:46   Link #922
orami
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hello there every1 i joined this forum cause of this series its great - first of all thanks all guys/girls that are doing great job at BT its awesome work - second i have rolled trough this forum little didnt have much time to read every post and i havent actually started reading light novels i only watched anime tough i will start soon from BT cause i cant speak japanese can some1 tell me one thing can square mage compete with gandalf power - i think i saw on one post summaries that saito is now stronger from the time he reunited with lousie after that 70000 incident???

I know he lost against ward in anime and i hear ward is square mage too - sorry he was square mage
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Old 2008-06-02, 09:55   Link #923
Darknemo2000
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Oh yes Tabitha is now. I always keep forgetting that as she as she always used to be triangle one.

Still I do not think she is a full-blown square mage yet.
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Old 2008-06-02, 13:58   Link #924
azziz
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Oh yes Tabitha is now. I always keep forgetting that as she as she always used to be triangle one.

Still I do not think she is a full-blown square mage yet.
But tabitha could use the combined spell(water+wind) than henrietta and wales used against saito(the one than only royaltie can use)since she also her cousin;in fact it would be even mmore powerful(wales was only triangle),i'm wonder why they didn't did it against the golem.
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Old 2008-06-02, 14:41   Link #925
Darknemo2000
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Maybe willpower. She didn't had enough of willpower to cover it or maybe could not have a control of the spell in general.

Or maybe the main point of this Hexagon spell is the combination of the two people to increase the spell power.

I mean Henrietta made three water spells and Wales three winds spells and created a six element spell (though it actually uses two but other 4 are used as supporting ones to increase the power).

They basically still not went over their 3 line spells but their royal blood allowed them to combine it into six.

Tabitha would need another royal blood member to increase the power of her spells this way, since she herself cannot step out of the limits of her power.

Last edited by Darknemo2000; 2008-06-02 at 18:30.
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Old 2008-06-03, 18:21   Link #926
ArchmageXin
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
rastilin, you do not need that much of strength just keep the wind and the gass will not be that much of problem. And with wind (not centered) you do not waste much magic even weaker mages can do it.

Actually - they can. Remember novels volume 4 chapter 9, they had their throats cut off (some even heads) and they had their hearts pierced by ice spears by Henrietta's guards yet they had no problem of healing themselves. Water magic is basic magic and can help healing wounds or putting bodies back together, it however cannot give life to someone who is dead. This is what void can do.

And yep tower was protected against any physical attack or magical. it is e very powerful spell but it would neutralize ANY attack as long as it is physical or normal magical that is. You need void to break through it

Atomic bomb wont be a problem however the radiation may be but again since you can control the air around you it won't be much problem either.

Another thing like it was noted in volume 4 chapter 9 the zombie army moves as a single unit having a single mind making them very synchronized. Thinking of such army of top mages that cannot be killed by normal means is bit scary.

Why Cromwell wasn't using such army to crush opponents - one thing it will take long since enemies do have magical protection (earth soldiers would not, though) second each unit wastes more and more of void mages power so you cannot make unlimited army. yet if you were to make such army of square mages then...

Remember Wales was practically the best in the zombie unit, but even he was not a top-class mage. Making a zombie unit from much better stuff would be pretty impressive.

I will provide exhibit 1. Saito's 20th century garbage of a plane vs an entire airborne squadron of Mages. And the Zero is a mostly unarmored plane with shitty weapons by today's standards.

I will provide exhibit 1B. The Chinese Airforce, which can field at least 200 planes of modern Interceptors. (using U.S Airforce or Brit RAS is just overkill)

I will provide exhibit 2. A single tank manage to take down a dozen super golems.

I will introduce Exhibit 2C. Saddam Hussein's pre-destroyed tank army, which is about 2000? That alone should be able to run down any ground force the other side can bring on to the table, magic golems or not.

Lets not forget how many RPGS this world have, and I don't mean video games...

Magic don't work against bullets, If wind mages can render barrages useless, there would be no conventional weapons present in Louise's world, the last I checked include both archers and riflemen for some reason.

If the wind mages can be worn down by barrages from singleshot muskets, I bet AK-47s would give them a real excerise.
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Old 2008-06-03, 18:53   Link #927
Darknemo2000
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Well again, mages revived by Advari ring would not need to protect themselves from bullets, the only what would need the protection is void mage.

No one ever discussed about the fact that modern planes would rule over the wind-dragons anytime or that tanks would crush golems.

Its pretty clear that if they were to engage modern world in their usual tactics they would loose in no time. Golems crushed, wind-dragons/griffons wiped out.

The only real good cards that Louises world has is void mages and square mages.

With void you would not need to worry about protection against bullets - since your attacking unit would be already dead.

Besidies there is a possibility of converting a modern soldiers into your army as well this way and it does open few more possibilities.

using anything else but square mages and void mages against modern army would be totally useless.



Oh and if any of you cares - i finished translating ZnT novels volume 4, chapter 9, which means that the whole volume 4 is finally finished.
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Old 2008-06-03, 19:21   Link #928
gugumomu
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i bet there are alot people that care :P
thanks Darknemo2000 for your continued work on B-T
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Old 2008-06-03, 19:41   Link #929
gabbytay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Well again, mages revived by Advari ring would not need to protect themselves from bullets, the only what would need the protection is void mage.

No one ever discussed about the fact that modern planes would rule over the wind-dragons anytime or that tanks would crush golems.

Its pretty clear that if they were to engage modern world in their usual tactics they would loose in no time. Golems crushed, wind-dragons/griffons wiped out.

The only real good cards that Louises world has is void mages and square mages.

With void you would not need to worry about protection against bullets - since your attacking unit would be already dead.

Besidies there is a possibility of converting a modern soldiers into your army as well this way and it does open few more possibilities.

using anything else but square mages and void mages against modern army would be totally useless.



Oh and if any of you cares - i finished translating ZnT novels volume 4, chapter 9, which means that the whole volume 4 is finally finished.

I mean we've seen Triangle mages but they aren't that strong. If they can control a Undead army don't you think they would do so already, even if they did why would directly attack them <P_P>. The U.S has M.L.R.S that has a range of 70 miles or even more that i don't know. The army wont even need to fight them.

Its plausible that they can create an undead army. If they can do that then there's
a possibility that we can emulate void and square magic.
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Old 2008-06-04, 08:23   Link #930
Darknemo2000
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gabbytay, they already did, but the unit they had was made from albion nobles why? Heck knows as there werent any good Mages in albion besides Wales... still, they were good enough to kill of all griffon squad and would have won against Saito/Tabitha/Kirche if not Louise's void, but not really top mages

Plus you somehow think that one unit would attack as in together. They may split up. And if facing opponents the can reproduce themselves (in Wardes style).

And while it can hit 70 miles away to hit small objects like one person. And all mages can fly (though prefer wind-dragons/griffons for that) which is another additional point.
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Old 2008-06-04, 08:39   Link #931
rastilin
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gabbytay, they already did, but the unit they had was made from albion nobles why? Heck knows as there werent any good Mages in albion besides Wales
I think it's more to do with the fact that no sane person would volunteer to be killed and then resurrected as a zombie.

Quote:
still, they were good enough to kill of all griffon squad and would have won against Saito/Tabitha/Kirche if not Louise's void, but not really top mages
If he could reproduce this trick at will, why not do it in the 14th volume? It would make for an easy victory. But they didn't, there must be a reason for that.

Quote:
And while it can hit 70 miles away to hit small objects like one person. And all mages can fly (though prefer wind-dragons/griffons for that) which is another additional point.
We can fly too, there are helicopters and such. It's worth remembering that it generally takes several hours to walk or ride 70 miles. That means that you start taking missile strikes while still half a day away from the battle.
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Old 2008-06-04, 13:06   Link #932
Darknemo2000
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Obviously you would be very stupid to even consider about asking anyone to die. Kill them off without asking. It was done many times in history so I do not think it would be a problem. Of course, you would have to have some trust or some good plan to set up, but thats they way things are.


The point is that it is harder to hit small objects that are moving. And can change their course of moving (fly or walk).

remember that all zombie units do have a single mind so they would be perfectly synchronized.


As for why it wasn't used in novels...Heck knows, it should have been but again it is hard to follow Noboru at times. Maybe he overlooked that. because one thing for sure - he didn't come with any excuse against it for now.

Anyways, lets just drop the discussion. Talk about some better things rather than pure speculations.

Last edited by Darknemo2000; 2008-06-04 at 13:30.
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Old 2008-06-04, 16:37   Link #933
TigerII
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Lol, there really isn't anything else to discuss though...I mean we have 13's summary. What else is there.

And even with square mages and vid mages, the modern army still has ways to win. As I said, it is all about the circumstances of the battle.
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Old 2008-06-05, 08:33   Link #934
PastPrime
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I have a question. Are there more zombies after volume 4. People are writing about zombies being created by a void mage, but my impression was that those zombies were created by Cromwell, not a void mage, using the ring he stole from the water sprite. He was just trying to give the impression that he could use void magic. Regardless, if all zombies are like those it would be another case of a modern army needing to know what they were dealing with. Saito and company were actually gaining the advantage using Kirche's fire magic before the rain shifted the advantage to water mages. With high explosive shells, phosphorus, and napalm (including flamethrowers), a modern army could blow them into little pieces that they couldn't recover from and/or turn them into charcoal.
But, given that the only way to move an army between the worlds is the World Gate and it is controlled by the Pope, it doesn't matter who would have the advantage. The Pope is interested in regaining the Holy Land, not invading Sato's world, and he is not going to open the gate to allow an army from there to invade his world.
But, if he could gain contacts in Saito's world, I could see him hiring a mercenary force to help him defeat the elves. They wouldn't have M1 tanks or F16 fighters, but they would have weapons that were as good or better than any Saito has access to. Perhaps some Mig21s and some of the tanks repaced by the newest generation. And lots of artillary and hand fired missile weapons.
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Old 2008-06-05, 13:06   Link #935
serenade_beta
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I have a question. Are there more zombies after volume 4.
Nope, I don't think there is.
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Old 2008-06-05, 15:56   Link #936
Vertiful
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I believe that all that's really needed to distroy the modern army is just Pope/Louise combo. While the Pope cast a transportation gate spell the size of a fist, Louise could just start casting "explosion" in a safe distance (in the parallel universe where she cannot be stopped). When the spell completes she could just stick her hand through the gate and blow up the enemy headquarters.
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Old 2008-06-05, 19:52   Link #937
rastilin
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Headquarters? Modern armies don't work like that, you might hit a rear command post but that's all you'd get. It wouldn't slow anyone down for long either, it's not as if "hit the command post" has never been tried before.
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Old 2008-06-06, 00:01   Link #938
crystalalien87
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sorry to bust in here with such old news but man the novel is SO much better then the anime lol... even though i can only read up until half of book 5... Many thanks to baka-tsuki : ) but dang there is so much more emotion in the novel....Louise is way colder to saito i almost started to dislike her until i realized she was really confused inside and her true feeling came out...well off to book 4
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Old 2008-06-06, 01:33   Link #939
Darknemo2000
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Actually rastlin, we do not live in 30th century, we are still in the same old 21 - in other words we still need fuel to run and sadly not all units can carry that with them or generate it - the base is needed at least for the sake of storing stuff in that you would need.

And thats where Louise's/Popes combo might hit. (I like Vertifuls idea, can be pretty dangerous).

Plus if the war would be going in Louises world quite a bit or navigation systems would not work as they rely on sputniks for that and so on...

Command posts are rather important to coordinate ones movement, if taken that away it may be bit difficult don't you think? Not saying that it would be crucial but if navigation system is out it can be pretty difficult.
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Old 2008-06-06, 04:11   Link #940
Angrypokstick
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Command posts are rather important to coordinate ones movement, if taken that away it may be bit difficult don't you think? Not saying that it would be crucial but if navigation system is out it can be pretty difficult.


Not just that. a modern army will still dominate an army from louise's world. Except that army won't be nearly as effective as they will be if they fight in louise's world. Fuel and supplies a side, there is the matter of communication and satellite support. Without satellite for communication and surveillance so many modern technology are essentially rendered useless: no GPS, no instant communication across the globe, no idea were your troops are spread out to , no idea were the enemy is (in the broad sense;we do still have recon divisions for a reason) or what their reserves are doing or hiding, fighters and bombers will be flying blind-guided only by their radar and the mark one eyeball ,no more coordination for multi-dimensional joint warfare on any kind of large scale. It will be like world war one all over again except dudes back then were used to those shit, we ARE not . Our armies are so reliant on satellites that without them we couldn't even find our arse in a well lit room(well maybe not that bad).
But if its on our home turf well then it will be like the turkey shoot of the century for us.

Last edited by Angrypokstick; 2008-06-06 at 04:26.
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