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Old 2006-10-23, 03:10   Link #301
Matrim
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Quote:
Pumpkin Scissors has a wrong idea of technological development?

How so?
Because the technological jump from WW II level technology to one man with a small arms weapon taking on tanks repeatedly and winning seems a bit too huge to be achieved. But it does not really bother me much, the series just does not seem serious enough for me to be that pedantic about realism anyway. After all, it features a fifteen year old girl graduating from a military academy.
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Old 2006-10-23, 03:23   Link #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrim View Post
Because the technological jump from WW II level technology to one man with a small arms weapon taking on tanks repeatedly and winning seems a bit too huge to be achieved. But it does not really bother me much, the series just does not seem serious enough for me to be that pedantic about realism anyway. After all, it features a fifteen year old girl graduating from a military academy.
Well armor piecering rounds have existed since WW2. Also its like Naruto. Alternative world.



.
.
.
.

Also my grandfather was 16 when he fought on D-day.
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Old 2006-10-23, 03:37   Link #303
Matrim
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Well armor piecering rounds have existed since WW2.
I doubt they were used in the way this is done in the anime, though but I am no military history buff, so I'd rather leave this argument to more competent peopel than me.
And fighting at the age of sixteen is very different from actually graduating from a military academy at 15, would you trust a 15 year old officer or expect him or her to have enough authority to command soldiers? But because it's anime in nine out of ten cases the main character has to be a teenager, that's one of the main things I dislike about anime in general.
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Old 2006-10-23, 04:43   Link #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikaifan View Post
.50 rifle and MG rounds are good against ~20mm of steel depending on type. ~30mm with a sabot. Of course, he's got a pistol...

ah, i stand corrected. But you don't have sabot for .50, AP rounds are in the DU/Tungsten variants.

Plus even for WWII era tanks, top armour thickness was a standard thickness of 50mm, with the exception of French & American (sherman 10mm+ ) tanks. Brits had less then 10mm top armour, but they were WWI class types. (Brits WWII Armour protection was actually a match for germans, too bad the weaponary wasn't)

Anti-Armour weaponary in WWII was still a new concept, first Anti-Tank rifle was created near the end of WWI, it was a 13.5mm German Mauser.
There was no development of different material core, the only solution at the time was simply large calibre, sheer brutal kinetic force.
Americans already had .50 but it was useless as a Anti-Tank weapon, without modern AP rounds.
The Russian had created a 15mm Anti-Material rifle, but that didn't work for long, even the Finish Solothurn, 20mm calibre were ineffective against later German tanks, and agianst the T-34 sloping armour. Not only you had to be at an insanely close distance (tank wise) to even scratch them, but you are more likely to die from having it break your collar bone, or give you away from the large muzzle flash.

Honestly, that's why the parallel development of man-portable rockets and self-propelled grenades were seen as a much more effective solution.

So lets be honest, if anyone had a chance to witness (or even fired one, kudo's to anyone who has) someone firing a .50 calibre weapon, it's not funny to think you can fire it with one hand.

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Old 2006-10-23, 09:06   Link #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrim View Post
Because the technological jump from WW II level technology to one man with a small arms weapon taking on tanks repeatedly and winning seems a bit too huge to be achieved. But it does not really bother me much, the series just does not seem serious enough for me to be that pedantic about realism anyway. After all, it features a fifteen year old girl graduating from a military academy.
Im going to disagree with you on some aspects. If you think about the time periods of major wars in our world and look at P.S. its a mix. There has never been a war where the insitution of Nobles and Commoners was so apparent. THe Dress and some of the mannrisms remind me of Victorian england. What i see are aspects from WWI WWII and bunch of little wars that were fought in europe over boarder disputes. As for Alice graduating from the military academy she said in episode 3 that being in the military was a family traditon and its obvious there are no sons in the family this might explain it. But then again its an anime and over thinking it can fry your brain. What i do agree with you on is the level of technological jumps in the 15 years period seems off. Oh well i will enjoy it for what it is
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Old 2006-10-23, 10:48   Link #306
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On a side note, Alice may have graduated from the academy at age 15, but the current timeline is set 3 years AFTER the ceasefire. So she is currently 18 years old. 3 years is a very credible time period to get promoted to 2nd LT.

Cheers.
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Old 2006-10-23, 10:56   Link #307
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To the above posters:

I blame the blue lantern.
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Old 2006-10-23, 11:03   Link #308
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anyone think a romance will develop between orland and alice?
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Old 2006-10-23, 11:06   Link #309
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Tanks even in the WWII era, were still substantially more agile than footsoldiers. You can't dodge tank shells. You can't dodge bullets in real life. You could take the worlds fastest, most dextrous, runner and he still wouldnt be able to outrun a rotating machine gun, or a tank shell. Without assistance at least.

But anyway, to clarify things in my post; why do we even care too much about the technicalities? TBH I've never seen a truly realistic anime in my entire life. I think the fact that anime turns fantasy into something tangible that peeps on the internet can debate about is what makes it so great.

Once again, the statement still stands:

I blame the blue lantern! It negates his pain, destroys any sense of self preservation he has, and gives him superhuman strength.

It also gives him that creepy look in his eyes that scares the heck out of his enemies.

Last edited by bluerogue; 2006-10-23 at 11:11. Reason: pewpewpew
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Old 2006-10-23, 11:32   Link #310
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Am I the only one who thinks that Orland looks like a zombie when he lights the lantern? Maybe he's not real human at all... That op cracked me when I saw him in it first time.
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Old 2006-10-23, 11:59   Link #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO View Post
but your wrong, the minute we saw flying boxes, you knew there was something different about the world the anime is in, it established that unrealistic things can be done in it, this tells the viewers to suspend his/her conventional belief. Its the same from Gundam, straight away, Big robots, space ships. However for Pumpkin Scissor, it portrayed a gritty, world war II style era, that shows NOTHING to suggest this world has anything different in how the technology physics work, except in physcological use of technology, i.e. the "blue light", everything else, the viewer assumes they work just like that.
And here we are not left without clue. Shouldn't the references to Empire, and Republic of Frost tell us something? (i.e. while WWII, not WWII)

You do have a point. However; Last Exile was modelled after a Victorian age no? So can't I argue that there were no such things as Vanships (yes I know they are called Vanships, thank you ) during Queen Victoria's time? Likewise, just as you cannot use the real Victorian age to debase an Anime based off that Victorian age; you cannot use the real WWII to compare to one based off WWII. Because they are similiar in respects but definately not at all identical; which that "physcological use of technology" you mentioned, as well as reference to Empire and Republics, should tell us from the start.

Going into this anime, from the start it becomes obvious that we cannot assume that it'll follow conventional WWII-era at all.
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Old 2006-10-23, 12:30   Link #312
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Ep 4 had aired. Here's some screens, as always there will be spoilers so click at your peril.

This ep looks really good and looks like it might answer the hotly debated gun issue...

Spoiler for gun only:

Spoiler for episode:

Last edited by Sonhex; 2006-10-23 at 12:55.
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Old 2006-10-23, 12:54   Link #313
Deathkillz
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^ oh that guy...well it would have been possible for him to have survived the pistol fire from the guns so if it is him it would be interesting to see how hes gona get his revenge...
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Old 2006-10-23, 12:56   Link #314
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!! Intriguing indeed.
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Old 2006-10-23, 13:55   Link #315
lordblazer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrim View Post
I doubt they were used in the way this is done in the anime, though but I am no military history buff, so I'd rather leave this argument to more competent peopel than me.
And fighting at the age of sixteen is very different from actually graduating from a military academy at 15, would you trust a 15 year old officer or expect him or her to have enough authority to command soldiers? But because it's anime in nine out of ten cases the main character has to be a teenager, that's one of the main things I dislike about anime in general.
Wellll.. THere actually have been 15 year old officers in the military......

I do agree with you on the anime cliche of teenager= young adult, and young adult= old timer.
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Old 2006-10-23, 14:00   Link #316
Onizuka-GTO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost View Post
And here we are not left without clue. Shouldn't the references to Empire, and Republic of Frost tell us something? (i.e. while WWII, not WWII)

You do have a point. However; Last Exile was modelled after a Victorian age no? So can't I argue that there were no such things as Vanships (yes I know they are called Vanships, thank you ) during Queen Victoria's time? Likewise, just as you cannot use the real Victorian age to debase an Anime based off that Victorian age; you cannot use the real WWII to compare to one based off WWII. Because they are similiar in respects but definately not at all identical; which that "physcological use of technology" you mentioned, as well as reference to Empire and Republics, should tell us from the start.

Going into this anime, from the start it becomes obvious that we cannot assume that it'll follow conventional WWII-era at all.
Actually, its more of a mix between WWI era society with WWII equipment,

WWI had three Empires and Republics involved.
It was a War that officers of nobles blood automaticially held. It was quite a blessing really, WWI really did kill off alot of idiotic aristrocrats, and left the competent ones to survive.

That isn't far fetch as WWI would of continued if the Germans did not revolt against the German Kaiser, so actually there is a basis for comparison.

When you put it in that context, the only difference is that it is an anime based on an alternative reality using that settings with the technological advancement of pre-world war II (1920-1940).

Sure, You can't say everything is the same, but they gave no true indication, just because they change the names of countries, and uniform style, doesn't give a clear indication that the technology is significantly different.

Hell, I mention the blue light, but that's just that a blue light. you can see it has a psychological effect, but then in WWI chemical warfare had not only had a biological effect, they also had secondary brain damaging effects.
What's not to say the blue lantern is also emmiting a chemical?
It's no secret that in WWI scientist were experimenting with many biological weapons.
in that context, the blue lantern can be easily explained in a plausible way that fit the era.

But not the handgun. The bloody handgun throws all awry,

After seeing those previews, heh. 13mm.....that can easily break your wrist, .50/12.72mm can break your collar bone easily if it wasn't for advance recoil dampering systems on barrett sniper rifles.
Russian 15mm could only be fired prone, and only sparingly, i dunno how many got hurt using that...


meh. anyway, seems to me the ep4 wants to pin it all on the magic "silver bullet" of that hugh 13mm handgun. (did you see the amount of that bullets propellant?! crazy!)

*evil mutter*

stupidinaccurateportrayingofworldwarIIeraweaponary dammnyoustupidwhoevertheyhiredgrrrr....


okay...i won't talk about it anymore......i'll just ignore it all and try to enjoy it as a mindless action flick...
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Old 2006-10-23, 14:25   Link #317
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"Dude, it's a cartoon. And it's not even taking place in our world."

I think that sums it up quite simply.
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Old 2006-10-23, 15:03   Link #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevenheaven7 View Post
anyone think a romance will develop between orland and alice?

Asked all ready check one page back some people replied to it already
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Old 2006-10-23, 16:22   Link #319
Onizuka-GTO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
"Dude, it's a cartoon. And it's not even taking place in our world."

I think that sums it up quite simply.

lol. true.

I suppose I got all excited when they mentioned Anti-Tank, but it wasn't really about special anti-tank troops but super zombie men. dammn was I really disappointed

*tries to focus on Alice*

sexy female in uniform!
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Old 2006-10-23, 19:39   Link #320
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Episode 04 Screencaps and Summary

Spoiler:
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