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Old 2008-04-16, 22:35   Link #101
felix
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewanderer View Post
I dunno about this now. I'm too addicted. I have 9 characters between the levels of 5 and 10. I login every second I'm not spending with my GF or asleep... HEEEEEEELP!!!
Hm?! that's strange.

I have 1 main character and started 2 others out of curiosity for the other classes.
It takes me 3-4hours to get a character to lvl15 (5-10min to 10, easy )

I'm wondering how bad you must of played, since you sound like you're playing a hole damn lot. >.>

My flyff Rating:
  • It's cute! (+1)
  • It's soo~ easy. (-1)
  • Some motivation to deter mindless farming. (+1)
  • Items require only levels, not stats. It's very boring and it gets old, having weapons which are a little dependent on X and Y stat is somewhat fun. (-1)
  • No special weapen drops, they have to be awakened. (-1)
  • Down-Leveling. Cool, but it should probably be a little harsher, so death is feared. (+1)
  • Neutral & Aggresive monsters (no opinion)
  • Level Cap. I'm not sure, I may be wrong; but since from what I see you don't receive experience for monsters which are 5-10 levels bellow yours I suppose there is theoretically a limit imposed by the games mechanics. (-1)
  • Damanged based on element affinity. (cool)
  • Flying (+1)
  • Strange class names, like Billposter (for Damage Based Priest) or Acrobat (instead of Archers) (-1)
  • Class evolution tree. (+1)
  • Actions. You have (for example) only 3 or so abilities, but the way you mix them in a combo can make a difference. (+1)
  • Over the top Cash Quests. At some point I was fighting monsters +4lvls and getting somewhere around 40 or what was it. Then I complete the quest, it gives me as reward 40000 (the equivalent of beating 1000 monsters; c'mon) (+1)
  • Not much variety in quests. But their cute. (+1 -1)
  • Items have a chance to drop. This drops with levels. If you have +6lvl your chance is somewhere around 0.0001, this leads to a lot of "masochistic" quests. (-1)

    The really really bad part here is that advancing to a higher class requires you to collect some items from level 1 and 3 depending on class, should you have failed to collect or keep them, you have 0 chance of collecting them; and the really sucky part here is that you don't gain any experience whatsoever until you advance. Really really stupid unnecessary trap. (-1)

    There is one very good consequence here. It so happens that having that this actually encourages players to take a blast at other high level monsters (+1); honestly it's quite easy, for example: me lvl5 can defeat big bad lvl11 monster with the aid of 4-5 health potions. The down side is that you won't really get any item drop unless your one level bellow the monster. Apparently the way all this is calculated is that the chance of droping an item grows higher when the absolute value of the difference between your level and that of the monster is close to zero. Also, "isolation" increases the drop factor, meaning monsters at the edge of the spawn pool drop more often. (-1) This could have been implemented with sooo~ much more finesse.

  • Non kill em' All Quests (+1)
  • Search Quests (+1)
  • Half-decent story telling (+1)
  • Very decent skill trees with possibilities for multiple builds. (meaning it's not just the one way) (+1)
  • Kinder-garden/Anime-ish monsters, towns, worlds and characters. Sort of amusing and good way to waste time. (+1)

Total: +14 / -9 Decent
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Old 2008-04-18, 22:50   Link #102
Kagedanji
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I've come to a conclusion, after searching games for so long.

MMOs of any genre played on the PC free or pay to play, either completely suck, or have more downsides than their upsides. Most occurent downsides are point and click battle, grinding, little content, "I got better stuff and a higher level, so I automatically pwn", classes that you would find in every RPG in the fucking world that all play the same (example: Warrior, Mage), little customization (which results in 9 out of every 10 players looking identical), and quests that you would find in every RPG in the fucking world that all ask for the same thing (example: kill X number of X monster, give X item to X npc).

Stick to console games.
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Old 2008-04-20, 12:19   Link #103
shashma
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I strongly recommend DOMO - one of the best anime mmorpg
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Old 2008-04-20, 16:51   Link #104
Kagedanji
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It takes a lot of walking until you reach level 10, and it still has a boring battle system.

At least it has a decent story to go with console game graphics.
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Old 2008-04-20, 16:59   Link #105
felix
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Kagedanji, try 12sky. It doesn't have the cutesy graphics though, but as far as I'm concern it's anime-related enough. xP
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Old 2008-04-20, 18:35   Link #106
Kagedanji
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12Sky is what I quit playing for DOMO.

It throws you into the game without any help or guidance. The battle system may feature gore, but gore doesn't do much, and what gets lopped off is random, not by your choice. Adding to that, battle is still click and watch. Clicking on certain parts of the enemy do nothing, even though I thought doing so would aim your blades to where you pointed at, according to what the game's website said. You still just watch.

The graphics are just not good. They have a blur effect option, but when you turn it on, you can only wonder how they thought it was a good idea to have it, because rather than being a nice artistic touch, it's just a giant white glare that yells "AM I DOING IT RIGHT?!"
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Old 2008-04-20, 20:18   Link #107
Vexx
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Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Having fun with DOMO... the "free" model and cash shop combo suit my playing time commitments nicely. The designs are insane cute... main downsides is that its obviously a bit unpolished (text overflowing out of windows because they were originally sized for kanji, whole classes missing from the english servers because of "balance" ... yet the asian servers are fully implemented, no in-game mail, etc).

But.. .since it costs nothing to play - I can play on my schedule, leave it alone, it doesn't require a $300 video card.... and the emotes and character races are quite amusing.
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Old 2008-04-20, 23:28   Link #108
felix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagedanji View Post
12Sky is what I quit playing for DOMO.

It throws you into the game without any help or guidance. The battle system may feature gore, but gore doesn't do much, and what gets lopped off is random, not by your choice. Adding to that, battle is still click and watch. Clicking on certain parts of the enemy do nothing, even though I thought doing so would aim your blades to where you pointed at, according to what the game's website said. You still just watch.

The graphics are just not good. They have a blur effect option, but when you turn it on, you can only wonder how they thought it was a good idea to have it, because rather than being a nice artistic touch, it's just a giant white glare that yells "AM I DOING IT RIGHT?!"
Wow, it must be really good if it does it so much better then Sky.
Guess I'll have to try it, never seen a RPG where clicking on the right spot mattered.
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Old 2008-04-20, 23:39   Link #109
Asamidori
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dontais View Post
Ragnarok 2 is coming out soon, if the first RO is any indication on how ro2 is going to be, I highly recommend it.
RO2 and RO is completely different. If you're expecting the same experience you've gotten from RO, wrong game. Last time I tried it, jRO2 OB, game's very incomplete too. The game have protential to grow, but if there aren't much added to it since the contents in jRO2 OB, then it's not worth playing.
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Old 2008-04-21, 08:51   Link #110
krisslanza
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Really the only free to play game I found with a engaging battle system (And actually engaging compared to pay to plays) was Mabinogi. Really.

You can't just click the enemy, alt-tab out, and come back later to see it dead. This might work on the easiest monsters but as soon as you fight Wolves... They'll just slaughter you. Its the most "real" combat I've seen in a MMO. Since most games make you go: "I rely on my massive HP to live!" Mabinogi relys on you not getting hit in the first place - just like in a real fight.

I mean in a real sword fight are you supposed to stand there and let them keep hitting you or isn't your goal to block, dodge, or counterattack it?
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Old 2008-04-21, 10:14   Link #111
felix
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Sounds interesting. Can you give be a 1-line explanation on just how exactly is it suppose to work.
How would you properly fight wolfs, for example?

edit.

Downloaded and played it. Strange, I'm able to kill wolfs. :/
Anyway I don't like it, played it a little just because of the cute sword spirit, but this game isn't for me.
Runs funny in full screen too. I think it's more my system then my hardware.
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Old 2008-04-21, 22:29   Link #112
Kagedanji
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A battle system which I'd like to see in a future MMORPG:

When you roam in the wild areas and click on a monster, or get attacked by a monster, you go into a third-person-action style gameplay where the controls are changed. You can get out of the third-person view by either defeating the monster, or exiting the battle proximity. WSAD will control movement, various buttons in reach of your WSAD hand will do things like jump and crouch, and moving the mouse controls your view. You can point at menus on your HUD while holding down a button. Left-click, when not holding the previously mentioned button, for example, will swing your left blade, or raise your left shield, which has a meter. Same with the right mouse button. If you have magic skills, and a staff is in your right hand, right click a magic skill in your HUD, then right click the enemy to cast. With skillful timing while using a sword, you could parry strikes and perform combos. You can also aim at a section of the enemy's body to attack it. Let's say one monster has a hidden weakpoint, his legs. Knowledgable players would always point their cursors at the legs of those enemies to kill them quickly. Mabinogi can suck on that.

I don't care if this idea is stolen without giving me credit or reward. As long as I get to use it in a game without monthly pay, I won't hire my lawer who always plays the race card to sue you.
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Old 2008-04-22, 07:37   Link #113
felix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagedanji View Post
When you roam in the wild areas and click on a monster, or get attacked by a monster, you go into a third-person-action style gameplay where the controls are changed. You can get out of the third-person view by either defeating the monster, or exiting the battle proximity. WSAD will control movement, various buttons in reach of your WSAD hand will do things like jump and crouch, and moving the mouse controls your view. You can point at menus on your HUD while holding down a button. Left-click, when not holding the previously mentioned button, for example, will swing your left blade, or raise your left shield, which has a meter. Same with the right mouse button. If you have magic skills, and a staff is in your right hand, right click a magic skill in your HUD, then right click the enemy to cast. With skillful timing while using a sword, you could parry strikes and perform combos. You can also aim at a section of the enemy's body to attack it. Let's say one monster has a hidden weakpoint, his legs. Knowledgable players would always point their cursors at the legs of those enemies to kill them quickly. Mabinogi can suck on that.
You wouldn't believe how boring that is.

The only way to balance it is to make it turn based, and the only non-turn based way of doing it was in a game called Rune, and honestly beisides the fun of hack & slash it's pretty imbalanced and boring. It had this feature where you would throw your weapon to deal loads of shity damaga. In a game where you would play in a arena fill with weapons guess what the favorite multiplaya' stratagy was.

I know it sounds interesting, but if you played sword games like Prince of Persia, Assassins Creed etc you would guess that click and swing is pretty boring after a while. (all be it in those games you've got other things you can do)

It's also annoying in concept. Stats would become irelavent, it would be no longer an RPG but simply a fird person hack and slash with a multi-player campaing system. (I believe there were a few games like that; didn't attract much of anybody)

I've heard other such concepts, like for example controlling your units directly in a RTS game, they seem smart but they really aren't and very very hard to even be a decent feature in a game. (the oh so hated AgeOfEmpire3 card features came to be from similar thought paterns)
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Old 2008-04-22, 16:38   Link #114
Kagedanji
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
You wouldn't believe how boring that is.

The only way to balance it is to make it turn based, and the only non-turn based way of doing it was in a game called Rune, and honestly beisides the fun of hack & slash it's pretty imbalanced and boring. It had this feature where you would throw your weapon to deal loads of shity damaga. In a game where you would play in a arena fill with weapons guess what the favorite multiplaya' stratagy was.

Making it turn-based screws with the idea of all battles being like an action game. Throwing weapons, unless they're meant to be thrown, such as pilums, knives, or shuriken, is stupid. Places filled with weapons would eliminate the need for shops, just like in Twilight Princess.

I know it sounds interesting, but if you played sword games like Prince of Persia, Assassins Creed etc you would guess that click and swing is pretty boring after a while. (all be it in those games you've got other things you can do)

This battle system is meant to be in an RPG, not a full-on action game, so of course there would be more things to do than hunt monsters.

It's also annoying in concept. Stats would become irelavent, it would be no longer an RPG but simply a fird person hack and slash with a multi-player campaing system. (I believe there were a few games like that; didn't attract much of anybody)

Stats can still count in battle. Weapons would have set strength stat minimums and set max damages. Strength can determine what weapons you can carry. Power can determine how much of the weapon's max damage you can deal. Agility can determine your attack and movement speed, and your ability to deal combos. Just because the battle is action based, doesn't mean the entire game is immediately labeled "NOT AN RPG". You can still do quests and missions and the sort, but battle would be more exciting.

I've heard other such concepts, like for example controlling your units directly in a RTS game, they seem smart but they really aren't and very very hard to even be a decent feature in a game. (the oh so hated AgeOfEmpire3 card features came to be from similar thought paterns)

This is irrelevant.
Anyway, if the battles are still boring, they can be easily fixed with occasional monster hordes for Dynasty Warriors-styled action, bosses with large health bars, and NPC AI that knows how to block and parry players' attacks.
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Old 2008-04-23, 04:22   Link #115
felix
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Uh, you see the problem. The idea is doing nothing but either going from one stereotype to another or simply turning in circles. I see two flaws in it,
  1. The game fighting system requires acrobatic maneuvers that 95% can't grasp, hence nobody plays the sucky game, hence it's a failure as a mmo.
  2. Anyone can pull a "basic" strike, and thus by simply having higher level any idiot can win.
...maybe you have a better version. And yes it has to be something that works for everybody, otherwise it would be just another fancy multiplayer game, for some people. Which there are plenty of with this concept.


A question for DOMO players.
I started playing the game and aparantly at level 15 or something I can defeat X monster to gain flight. As far as I see there's no extra ability just a change in visuals, personally I don't like to see the character floating or the sword swinging by itself, but I still want to complete the quest. My question is:
Once you gain flight can it be turned OFF?
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Old 2008-04-23, 16:22   Link #116
Kagedanji
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
The game fighting system requires acrobatic maneuvers that 95% can't grasp, hence nobody plays the sucky game, hence it's a failure as a mmo.

Clicking the mouse with timing isn't what I'd call "acrobatic". Gamers have hand-eye coordination, so pressing a few buttons while looking at a screen won't pull any muscles.

Anyone can pull a "basic" strike, and thus by simply having higher level any idiot can win.

This...is not new. Every PVP MMO is like this, and every PVP MMO would still use the click and watch battle system. This could be fixed by making PVP matches automatically set the players at equal strengths. If you were talking about NPC monsters, then I'll tell you this. In almost every game, at some point, you will be strong enough to do a one-hit kill on a certain monster. That's simply one of the benefits of leveling up.

A question for DOMO players.

I started playing the game and aparantly at level 15 or something I can defeat X monster to gain flight. As far as I see there's no extra ability just a change in visuals, personally I don't like to see the character floating or the sword swinging by itself, but I still want to complete the quest. My question is:

Once you gain flight can it be turned OFF?

Yes...and the game gives instructions as you play.
If I don't change my mind and become a lawyer, I will design games. To make games people would actually want to play, so that I can get profit, I would have to know what people want in a game. One thing, is innovation. A game that doesn't involve clicking twice, then watching in hopes of killing the monster, would get people interested.

Mabinogi, no matter how you look at it, is the same thing. Yes, you can block, but blocking is a skill you have to learn, and CAST, which makes no sense. There's also never a reason to stop clicking the attack button, because they thought it was a good idea to let players click numerous times to fight a monster instead of having them only click twice to do the same exact thing. Stopping your combo does nothing but let the enemy attack back, thus, the feature is useless. Dodging is still determined by your stats, so you dodge by chance, you can't control it. The only thing you actually control is attacking, and blocking, if you have the MP.
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Old 2008-04-23, 18:27   Link #117
Asamidori
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
A question for DOMO players.
I started playing the game and aparantly at level 15 or something I can defeat X monster to gain flight. As far as I see there's no extra ability just a change in visuals, personally I don't like to see the character floating or the sword swinging by itself, but I still want to complete the quest. My question is:
Once you gain flight can it be turned OFF?
You can't fly unless you use it. Also, flying is a short cut in MANY maps. (I don't fancy walking through 3 maps just to go from this side of Swan Lake to the other side...)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagedanji View Post
Mabinogi, no matter how you look at it, is the same thing. Yes, you can block, but blocking is a skill you have to learn, and CAST, which makes no sense. There's also never a reason to stop clicking the attack button, because they thought it was a good idea to let players click numerous times to fight a monster instead of having them only click twice to do the same exact thing. Stopping your combo does nothing but let the enemy attack back, thus, the feature is useless. Dodging is still determined by your stats, so you dodge by chance, you can't control it. The only thing you actually control is attacking, and blocking, if you have the MP.
- I don't remember ever dodging any attack in Mabi. It's either counter, defend (block), or take the damage. Then again, I always fight stuffs labeled "strong" or above, so maybe that's why.

- If you're continously clicking the attack button (be it the mouse button or the shortcut keys), you're doing it wrong.

- MP does not control if you can block or not. It controls rather you can cast magic or not.

- You don't use up SP for going into Defend state (blocking). Your SP only drains when you're in Counter state. (And it'll be something amazing if you don't at least carry one stack of SP potions with you at all times, seeing how they drop like sands from all over the place.)


Oh, also, on that battle system you're talking about, I'll be the first to not play it. Camera changing between 3rd person and 1st person is NOT something everyone likes. I'd like my camera to stay 3rd person kthx.
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Last edited by Asamidori; 2008-04-23 at 18:42.
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Old 2008-04-23, 19:52   Link #118
Kagedanji
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When the hell did I say FIRST person? I'd like you to find and quote me saying "first person" in any of the above posts, kthx.

My idea was that you would go from the bird's eye view/free camera view to a fixed third person battle camera.

Last edited by Kagedanji; 2008-04-23 at 20:13.
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Old 2008-04-24, 01:13   Link #119
Asamidori
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Ah sorry, my bad, skimmed through it too quick and missed that.


But yea, still no to that system. While it does sound "different", the thought of repeating that for hours while exploring/leveling will...not be fun. (The fact that I don't like WASD control adds to it, too.)
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Old 2008-04-24, 21:08   Link #120
Kagedanji
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Oh. That's just a personal opinion then. I also don't know how continuously fighting with that battle system is any different from grinding in other games. At least in this system, there's more action to the battle than in other games. Ever played Dynasty Warriors? If this battle system is ever implemented, there will be chances for hordes of monsters for that kind of action. Have you ever fought a lot of bosses in action games, especially those giant-monster type bosses? Instead of clicking on the boss and keeping your finger on your potion hotkey, you can actually use your playing skill to kill the boss. For example, a fight with a large dragon:

Avoid and evade its repeated sweeping attacks from its tail and wings. Jump and roll away from its widespread fire breath. In between blocking and dodging, slash away at its head and legs, even jump on its back, stab its neck from behind, and deliver massive damage. Cookies to whoever gets the reference.

Also, adding to the battle system features:

Tapping the crouch key in time with being hit will perform a complete dodge instead of a crouch, where you can still get hit. It'll decrease a stamina bar (separate from the HP and MP bars) when used, which also decreases from jumping and other acrobatic movements.

When in a PVP duel, both players' stats are set to the midpoint between eachother's stats, which makes a fair battle, even when a level 1 player is pitted against a level 30 player. Potions and healing/protective skills won't be allowed. This way, the only determining factor is player skill, weapons, and attack skills.

Casting-classes (mages) will have MP bars that recharge very quickly, but they will still be able to deplete from heavily repeated casts and certain powerful spells that automatically deplete set fractions of the entire bar, some may deplete the entire bar all at once. They will have many attack spells effective even at close range, which usually cost less time to cast, and easily rechargeable MP. They will still be vulnerable to many melee attacks, since they the ones that have the smallest stamina bars and will move the slowest during battle, to keep everything in balance. This way, a casting-class player and a melee-class player can be equally matched in PVP.
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