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Old 2008-10-23, 14:12   Link #2301
npal
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So, in hopes of getting over Lelouch, you create a replica, only starting more on the evil side? The comparison won't just be unavoidable, the new character will majorly fail for being a copy.
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Old 2008-10-23, 14:15   Link #2302
equinox822
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A mastermind of Lelouch's caliber appearing out of nowhere would be somewhat absurd. Suppose a character like that exists or is going to be created for R3, where the hell was he during the whole crisis?

They'll make it work somehow, but it would still be way too convenient. (Then again, Code Geass is all about those)
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Old 2008-10-23, 14:15   Link #2303
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npal View Post
So, in hopes of getting over Lelouch, you create a replica, only starting more on the evil side? The comparison won't just be unavoidable, the new character will majorly fail for being a copy.
except this is the villain of the story
not villain protagonist
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Old 2008-10-23, 14:17   Link #2304
bladeofdarkness
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Spoiler for meet J-the new villain:


thats an insight into the motives of the villan of the piece
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Old 2008-10-23, 14:19   Link #2305
equinox822
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
except this is the villain of the story
not villain protagonist
It would still be a sickeningly obvious milking attempt. Continuation to Code Geass could work, but I'd prefer it with completely new characters. Lelouch fan or not, little of interest remains after he is taken away (Apart from the Geass as a whole). Suzaku's life as Zero might be something, but it would still feel rather vaunted.
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Old 2008-10-23, 14:20   Link #2306
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Originally Posted by ZeroSama View Post
Yeah Lelouch was like monstrously popular in Japan(where it actually matters) if you look at some of the character polls in some magazines such as newtype etc. He consistently came out on top as CG's most popular character and the most popular anime character overall.

I'm not saying he's the only reason people watched the show but he was a bloody big part of it.

If they do plan to make a sequel and plan to bring back everyone bar Lelouch then it wouldn't be surprising if Sunrise made Taniguchi, Okuchi or whoever pull a retcon for marketings sake. Why pass up the opportunity for increased sales? Credibility? Screw that Sunrise lost that along time ago.
I would hope that Oukochi would care about credibility, and not just do a repeat of Gundam Seed Destiny where Lelouch shows up to take over the series again because he was popular.
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Old 2008-10-23, 14:21   Link #2307
bladeofdarkness
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i'll also add some details on the state of the world in which J can play

Spoiler for really long ass post:
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Old 2008-10-23, 14:26   Link #2308
npal
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All the worse. Lelouch was so popular and liked cause he was a complex character who took the role of both the hero and the villain, along with a number of other traits. A starting villain has a very long way to go, and starting on that path by possessing Lelouch traits is not a good way to come on top in the comparison. The risk of actually being just another villain who doesn't have much to give is high. Code Geass villains seriously lack in that department. Charles and Schneizer can't come close to Lelouch's complexity, and at this point, neither can the secondary characters left alive. So even if we don't even consider the villain as Lelouch's successor, who's gonna take up the mantle of Lelouch's popularity? Suzaku? Nunnally?

In the end, there's no true KING left on the board, there are just pawns and a number of figureheads. Even if they make a copy villain, who's gonna lead the other side? Suzaku has always been a pawn, as well as Nunnaly, Ohgi and everyone else. Ascending to king status would probably need a whole season and even then, no one will be Lelouch.

It's essentially pointless to try to create Lelouch without Lelouch. My prediction is that if they choose to create new characters and have the old ones take over, it won't be as successful as the original Code Geass, leading either to stagnation OR to a spin-off, where Lelouch can be alive. Unless of course, they bring him back anyway, which would be wise enough, from a marketing point, cause everyone likes Lelouch and they'll continue to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charred Knight View Post
I would hope that Oukochi would care about credibility, and not just do a repeat of Gundam Seed Destiny where Lelouch shows up to take over the series again because he was popular.
Well, credibility goes out the window when the company wants to sell. Whether the employee cares about credibility or not is irrelevant. In the worst case, they'll just hire someone else to make what they believe to a profitable sequel for them. Whether that will feature Lelouch or not is up to how the company perceives maximum profit. But my opinion is that they have a far better chances with using Lelouch again, since I believe he was the main reason Code Geass was successful, and without him, it'll be a gamble. And I don't know whether Sunrise would like to gamble. I don't think they're a company that gambles.
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Old 2008-10-23, 14:34   Link #2309
youngde
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Besides, any new villian in the CG universe would have to be on Lelouch and Schneizel's level to even be a problem. Either Lelouch or a Lelouch clone would have to stop him. Lord knows Suzaku, Kallen and Nunnally couldn't do it on their own. (Besides when Lelouch and Suzaku are together, there's nothing they can't do; although, maybe they should change it to Kallen since, according to the updated profile, she did win the fight w/ Suzaku.)
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Old 2008-10-23, 14:36   Link #2310
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I, honestly, wouldn't like them to bring Lelouch back just for marketing purposes. Although I'd really love Lelouch to have survived (became immortal, etc...), I'd rather accept and respect the creator's decision, even if I do not like it.
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Old 2008-10-23, 14:37   Link #2311
Charred Knight
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Originally Posted by npal View Post
All the worse. Lelouch was so popular and liked cause he was a complex character who took the role of both the hero and the villain, along with a number of other traits. A starting villain has a very long way to go, and starting on that path by possessing Lelouch traits is not a good way to come on top in the comparison. The risk of actually being just another villain who doesn't have much to give is high. Code Geass villains seriously lack in that department. Charles and Schneizer can't come close to Lelouch's complexity, and at this point, neither can the secondary characters left alive. So even if we don't even consider the villain as Lelouch's successor, who's gonna take up the mantle of Lelouch's popularity? Suzaku? Nunnally?

In the end, there's no true KING left on the board, there are just pawns and a number of figureheads. Even if they make a copy villain, who's gonna lead the other side? Suzaku has always been a pawn, as well as Nunnaly, Ohgi and everyone else. Ascending to king status would probably need a whole season and even then, no one will be Lelouch.

It's essentially pointless to try to create Lelouch without Lelouch. My prediction is that if they choose to create new characters and have the old ones take over, it won't be as successful as the original Code Geass, leading either to stagnation OR to a spin-off, where Lelouch can be alive. Unless of course, they bring him back anyway, which would be wise enough, from a marketing point, cause everyone likes Lelouch and they'll continue to do so.
The problem I have is can they create a sequel with Lelouch that's good?

Britannia is no longer a problem, Europe was powerless, and Asia was by and large good in the previous series. That leaves no major armies unless somone takes over Britannia, and I would rather not see Neo Britannia with Nunnaly as some puppet.

If the only reason people want to see Lelouch is for him to show up in a weird outfit and scream out speeches than the series would be nothing but horrible fanservice dreck.

Suzaku: Oh no Neo Britannia is attacking us
Lelouch: never forget who you are Suzaku
Suzaku turns and sees Lelouch in a Las Vegas showgirl outfit
Lelouch starts dancing
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Old 2008-10-23, 14:40   Link #2312
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Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
I, honestly, wouldn't like them to bring Lelouch just for marketing purposes. Although I'd really love Lelouch to have survived (became immortal, etc...), I'd rather accept and respect the creator's decision, even if I do not like it.
I have no problem w/ the writer having a particular way of wanting a story to end, but I also respect the fact that all pieces of art are partially creator intent and partially the audience interpretation. If the fans prefer that he's alive, and that's the story they go with, I have no problem with that particularly. The best works of art are never finished and evolve w/ time.
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Old 2008-10-23, 14:43   Link #2313
Used Can
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If the fans prefer that he's alive, and that's the story they go with, I have no problem with that particularly.
Yes, but when official sources contradict fan speculation, then that speculation can no longer be regarded as a possible fact. That's what you can fan fiction.
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Old 2008-10-23, 14:49   Link #2314
youngde
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Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
Yes, but when official sources contradict fan speculation, then that speculation can no longer be regarded as a possible fact. That's what you can fan fiction.
That's what I meant by thing evolving over time. The original creator may have intended Lelouch to die, but that doesn't change the fact that w/ a series like Code Geass and the way the end was written, it leaves it open reconning later. Officially, the writer says he's dead, but this isn't real life, so it can get changed (particularly since it's SUNRISE, not the writer that holds rights to the IP). Fan Fiction can become the reality if a large enough fan base wants it...mind you, this can lead to some seriously crappy sequels if it isn't done properly. To be certain, I would rather Lelouch stay dead than have them release a sequel that's horrible. But if it's reconned w/ some amount of thought, hopefully, it won't be (if it happens).
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Old 2008-10-23, 15:00   Link #2315
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(Besides when Lelouch and Suzaku are together, there's nothing they can't do; although, maybe they should change it to Kallen since, according to the updated profile, she did win the fight w/ Suzaku.)
...now that's going a bit far. Kallen's victory doesn't suddenly turn her into Suzaku himself and allow her to replace him in the legendary duo. >_>
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Old 2008-10-23, 15:02   Link #2316
bladeofdarkness
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...now that's going a bit far. Kallen's victory doesn't suddenly turn her into Suzaku himself and allow her to replace him in the legendary duo. >_>
actually there was a joke poster a while ago (after 18)
saying that
KALLEN IS THE NEW SUZAKU
dont know if you remember that one

http://media.photobucket.com/image/k...uzaku.jpg?o=21
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Old 2008-10-23, 15:09   Link #2317
Eliarine
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
actually there was a joke poster a while ago (after 18)
saying that
KALLEN IS THE NEW SUZAKU
dont know if you remember that one

http://media.photobucket.com/image/k...uzaku.jpg?o=21
I do remember, but it wasn't exactly meant to be flattering for Kallen.
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Old 2008-10-23, 15:11   Link #2318
bladeofdarkness
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its true on some level
she took over some of suzaku's roles in R2
kallen took over suzaku's position as both wide eyed idealist (more so then suzaku at least) and lone ace pilot against army of enemies
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Old 2008-10-23, 16:14   Link #2319
youngde
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...now that's going a bit far. Kallen's victory doesn't suddenly turn her into Suzaku himself and allow her to replace him in the legendary duo. >_>
Um, I was kidding. Settle down.
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Old 2008-10-23, 16:20   Link #2320
Eliarine
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Um, I was kidding. Settle down.
Yeah, I tried not to sound too harsh because I know you're among the nicest Kallen fans here and I wasn't sure you were serious, but it would not be the first time people (seriously) try to replace Suzaku with Kallen and...after all the hate the guy got it's rather annoying that even that gets taken from him >.>
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