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Old 2009-01-17, 19:36   Link #3281
Nogitsune
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narona View Post
Well, what I dislike about the Collective Unconsciousness (you're talking about that, right? ) in code geass is that it seems to be one antity.

I personally like to think that in the world of C, Lelouch is still Lelouch. But it's more a preference than an opinion based on the show itself....
*nods her head to that*

Quote:
But I could be wrong. In that scene from Turn 15, who are those people/masks who are talking to Lelouch? Dead people from the World of C / Collective Unconsciousness?
Actually, I never thought much of them... they were jus there. And I don't think the staff ever elaborated on that.

Quote:
Do you know where I could find Rivalz/Milly's poem? ^o^ (translated of course)
Sorry, I'm looking for that myself.
Maybe it hasn't beeen translated yet?
Anyway, if someone has it somewhere... I'll give them an epic hug. xD

I want Rivalz and Milly! q.q
*hugs them*
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Old 2009-01-17, 19:40   Link #3282
GuidoHunter_Toki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narona View Post
But I could be wrong. In that scene from Turn 15, who are those people/masks who are talking to Lelouch? Dead people from the World of C / Collective Unconsciousness?
C.C. describes the World of C to Suzaku as a collective unconsciousness, an assembly of hearts and memories, and a sea of metempsychosis. She also says that humans are masks worn by the collective unconsciousness. I believe thats what the masks are there to symbolize.
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Old 2009-01-17, 19:40   Link #3283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narona View Post
Well, what I dislike about the Collective Unconsciousness (you're talking about that, right? ) in code geass is that it seems to be one antity.

I personally like to think that in the world of C, Lelouch is still Lelouch. But it's more a preference than an opinion based on the show itself....
I can't be sure, more like because, there were not clear answers about it. Not shown enough for this part of the story.
I was under the impression that in episode 15, those thoughts and stuff, were more of a metaphor/symbolism rather than a real/used-to be entity. Thoughts-elevators, or something like this.
It is complicated, can't really approach it much to be honest.
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Old 2009-01-17, 19:53   Link #3284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoHunter_Toki View Post
C.C. describes the World of C to Suzaku as a collective unconsciousness, an assembly of hearts and memories, and a sea of metempsychosis. She also says that humans are masks worn by the collective unconsciousness. I believe thats what the masks are there to symbolize.
Wait, if it's a sea of metempsychosis, then doesn't that more or less prove that reincarnation does exist in the geass world?
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Old 2009-01-17, 19:58   Link #3285
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
Wait, if it's a sea of metempsychosis, then doesn't that more or less prove that reincarnation does exist in the geass world?

Well, i think that it was not meant in the literal sense. Metempsychosis is a complicated thing, trust me i study things like this. {supposed lulz}
There was no evidence, to actually support this theory within the series, nor a clear denial, if C.C said that. {? can't really remember it here}
It is just there i guess.
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Old 2009-01-17, 19:58   Link #3286
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
Wait, if it's a sea of metempsychosis, then doesn't that more or less prove that reincarnation does exist in the geass world?
While reincarnation somewhat defines metempsychosis its not the complete concept. Metemphyscosis is better defined by the concept of transmigration of the soul which is similer to reincarnation, but not the same.
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Old 2009-01-17, 19:59   Link #3287
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
Wait, if it's a sea of metempsychosis, then doesn't that more or less prove that reincarnation does exist in the geass world?
In the idea put forth by C.C. and Charles, I would say yes, but not exactly. Once a person becomes a part of the World of C, they are absorbed by it and they lose their individuality. The person that was no longer is, but an idea of them can exist for a new mask to fill but the original would be gone. This is what Charles and Marianne's plan was bad, it demolished the boundaries between people and would have made everyone one.

Its a world devoid of lies, love, and feelings. Therefore there are no singular entities, just collections of wholes. There is no shown ability to speak to the dead, and yet there is a plot hole in Charles' conversation with Clovis, unless that was something that was also dropped because it goes in direct conflict with what Charles says as he dies and with his plans in general.

So a mask can be resurected, but the original entitiy, no.
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Old 2009-01-17, 20:03   Link #3288
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Originally Posted by Frostfire View Post
There is no shown ability to speak to the dead, and yet there is a plot hole in Charles' conversation with Clovis, unless that was something that was also dropped because it goes in direct conflict with what Charles says as he dies and with his plans in general.

So a mask can be resurected, but the original entitiy, no.
I still wonder if Charles actually talked to Clovis or was simply losing it.
I mean, I really can't imagine how that would have went.
"Oh, father? Really nice to see you... what do you mean, 'dead people aren't supposed to lie'? Oh well. Did I mention that my beloved little brother shot me through the head? It was kind of messy... Anyway. Give him a hug from me if you see him, yes?"

...Damn, I'm such a fangirl.
I would have loved to see that. xD
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Old 2009-01-17, 20:33   Link #3289
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Originally Posted by incorrupts View Post

Well, i think that it was not meant in the literal sense. Metempsychosis is a complicated thing, trust me i study things like this. {supposed lulz}
There was no evidence, to actually support this theory within the series, nor a clear denial, if C.C said that. {? can't really remember it here}
It is just there i guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoHunter_Toki View Post
While reincarnation somewhat defines metempsychosis its not the complete concept. Metemphyscosis is better defined by the concept of transmigration of the soul which is similer to reincarnation, but not the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostfire View Post
In the idea put forth by C.C. and Charles, I would say yes, but not exactly. Once a person becomes a part of the World of C, they are absorbed by it and they lose their individuality. The person that was no longer is, but an idea of them can exist for a new mask to fill but the original would be gone. This is what Charles and Marianne's plan was bad, it demolished the boundaries between people and would have made everyone one.

Its a world devoid of lies, love, and feelings. Therefore there are no singular entities, just collections of wholes. There is no shown ability to speak to the dead, and yet there is a plot hole in Charles' conversation with Clovis, unless that was something that was also dropped because it goes in direct conflict with what Charles says as he dies and with his plans in general.

So a mask can be resurected, but the original entitiy, no.
Thank you all for your input. I'm still not sure I understand the difference between reincarnation and transmigration (they sound pretty much the same to me) but I'll figure that out on my own time.
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Old 2009-01-18, 06:02   Link #3290
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoHunter_Toki View Post
C.C. describes the World of C to Suzaku as a collective unconsciousness, an assembly of hearts and memories, and a sea of metempsychosis. She also says that humans are masks worn by the collective unconsciousness. I believe thats what the masks are there to symbolize.
Sounds like a kiddy version of the Warp.
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Old 2009-01-18, 06:04   Link #3291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostfire View Post
In the idea put forth by C.C. and Charles, I would say yes, but not exactly. Once a person becomes a part of the World of C, they are absorbed by it and they lose their individuality. The person that was no longer is, but an idea of them can exist for a new mask to fill but the original would be gone. This is what Charles and Marianne's plan was bad, it demolished the boundaries between people and would have made everyone one.

Its a world devoid of lies, love, and feelings. Therefore there are no singular entities, just collections of wholes. There is no shown ability to speak to the dead, and yet there is a plot hole in Charles' conversation with Clovis, unless that was something that was also dropped because it goes in direct conflict with what Charles says as he dies and with his plans in general.

So a mask can be resurected, but the original entitiy, no.
So... You're saying the sentient soul is destroyed? Then where did the soul come from in the first place? Aren't the so called "gods" merely a psychic sea of unconsciousness?

Last edited by Cosmic Eagle; 2009-01-18 at 09:51.
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Old 2009-01-18, 06:40   Link #3292
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Reading the poems am I the only person who gets the feeling the entire cast wanted to have sex with Lelouch towards the end?
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Old 2009-01-18, 10:05   Link #3293
Cosmic Eagle
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Originally Posted by incorrupts View Post
Haha, i did not say that i did not like it. xD
It is just, i don't know, Kallen's poem unexpectedly touched me the most among the rest, maybe because it was not focused only on her love for Lelouch, but had the part about her life-discarding at some point. {though that had relevance to Lelouch as well but still..} Family-bonds usually touch me more than romantic ones, but this time, ah, Nunally failed i guess? Or Kallen's was so much emotional. I don;t know how to explain it. {maybe it was the fact it was posted first, idk}

C.C's is a bit dark, i will admit that. It is like, sadistic and yet not. It is peculiar, i mean, till we get full translation with all the lines {not that i imply you have not done a great work, thanks a bunch again} i might have to hold my opinion about it.

btw, Shirley's is about romance, shouldn't that technically get posted in the romance thread? Just so there are no "biased" labels. Kallen's might have been more explicit for.. well the reasons that were posted, feel no need to re-post them, but still, Shirley's is about it as well.
Well if you think about it, C.C's poem basically reflects hers and Lulu's lives.
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Old 2009-01-18, 10:08   Link #3294
youngde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostfire View Post
In the idea put forth by C.C. and Charles, I would say yes, but not exactly. Once a person becomes a part of the World of C, they are absorbed by it and they lose their individuality. The person that was no longer is, but an idea of them can exist for a new mask to fill but the original would be gone. This is what Charles and Marianne's plan was bad, it demolished the boundaries between people and would have made everyone one.

Its a world devoid of lies, love, and feelings. Therefore there are no singular entities, just collections of wholes. There is no shown ability to speak to the dead, and yet there is a plot hole in Charles' conversation with Clovis, unless that was something that was also dropped because it goes in direct conflict with what Charles says as he dies and with his plans in general.

So a mask can be resurected, but the original entitiy, no.
Does anyone else kinda get a lifestream from FF VII vibe from the World of C. (or am I just old? How old where most of you when FF VII came out? Like 8 or 10?)
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Old 2009-01-18, 11:13   Link #3295
incorrupts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charred Knight View Post
Reading the poems am I the only person who gets the feeling the entire cast wanted to have sex with Lelouch towards the end?

Might actually be the case. But it does not really matter, because Lelouch only showed sexual-drumroll mood towards Kallen, so yeah.

@youngde:: I was nine when it came out in Greece, it was when i fell in love with RPGs. {and games in general lulz}
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Old 2009-01-18, 11:15   Link #3296
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
So... You're saying the sentient soul is destroyed? Then where did the soul come from in the first place? Aren't the so called "gods" merely a psychic sea of unconsciousness?
The sentient soul was defined by the mask it wore, when you take away the mask, then the sentient soul would lose individuality and become a part of the greater whole. Charles would not think he was dying if his absorption into the World of C when Lelouch defeats him, did not destroy his identity.

Think of it as a cups of water, inside their cups the water has the form of whatever the cup is. If the cups break and all the water rushes out, then you just have a giant, undistiguishable mess. You can refill the cups with the water, but its not going to be the same water. It will be a mixture of all the water.
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Old 2009-01-18, 11:32   Link #3297
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Originally Posted by Frostfire View Post
The sentient soul was defined by the mask it wore, when you take away the mask, then the sentient soul would lose individuality and become a part of the greater whole. Charles would not think he was dying if his absorption into the World of C when Lelouch defeats him, did not destroy his identity.

Think of it as a cups of water, inside their cups the water has the form of whatever the cup is. If the cups break and all the water rushes out, then you just have a giant, undistiguishable mess. You can refill the cups with the water, but its not going to be the same water. It will be a mixture of all the water.
So that then begs the question if the World of C is a sea of human consciousness, where then did it come from? And how is it linked to Geass?
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Old 2009-01-18, 11:57   Link #3298
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
So that then begs the question if the World of C is a sea of human consciousness, where then did it come from? And how is it linked to Geass?
One of the many unanswered "What?" of Code Geass.
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Old 2009-01-18, 12:10   Link #3299
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I heard that Rivalz and Milly's poem is rather touching, hence, I had my hands on deciphering it. As compared to poems of many other characters, this is not too difficult for my level, I guess . Of course, please feel free to correct my mistake especially those with (?). I'm still at the beginner stage .

Quote:
Rivalz and Milly - Shiawase Neiro



This is a conversation between Rivalz and Milly. This is really touching . Rivalz had the intention of staying back in Ashford in case Lelouch returns one day to have Milly 'reprimanding' him that Lelouch wouldn't care about him and where he is and Rivalz should move on with his life.

Spoiler:
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Old 2009-01-18, 12:34   Link #3300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pink-chan View Post
I heard that Rivalz and Milly's poem is rather touching, hence, I had my hands on deciphering it. As compared to poems of many other characters, this is not too difficult for my level, I guess . Of course, please feel free to correct my mistake especially those with (?). I'm still at the beginner stage .
Sounds like Ashford days, the living years. Embodies this past-nostalgia. {i went half-sniff, not Kallen-poem-sniff, but still sniff}
Thanks for the translation ~
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