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Old 2009-03-16, 12:56   Link #4001
bladeofdarkness
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since this thread is in dire need of a new topic
allow me to pose a new topic for debate

it can be said that after looking at the varius geass powers that there is a connection between the person and the power they get based on either personallity or mind frame
for a few examples

C.C wanted to be loved and her geass made everyone around her fall for her

marianne was a woman who was able to reach into the hearts of everyone she met (there is not a single character in the show that didnt adore her, other then V.V) and her geass allowed her to litteraly do that

charles was a man who believed that the world is full of lies and his geass allows him to make anyone believe whatever he wanted them to

and lelouch was a man who could manipulate anyone to do whatever he wanted them to do with his words alone
its only natural that his geass would be the litteral personfication of that trait

if we assume that geass manifests itself according to the person who posses it
what kind of geass do you think the other characters in the show would posses (suzaku, kallen, etc)

i personally think that rivals's geass would make him invisible
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Old 2009-03-16, 14:03   Link #4002
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Suzaku could probably make people unable to lie, or something related to honesty. I have no idea what Kallen could get. Maybe she could manipulate emotions, since shes controlled by her emotions.

To do this, you have to do it on well developed characters though. And this IS geass. *rubs chin* I wonder what type of geass Schneizel would get.
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Old 2009-03-16, 14:08   Link #4003
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Suzaku's power would likely be something related to non-violence, such as making people literally incapable of fighting. Probably an area-affect type. Kallen i think would be the opposite. Hers would no doubt be used as a weapon, specifically something that either hindered her opponents or confused them.
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Old 2009-03-16, 14:16   Link #4004
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Are we talking during or post season/show? If its the latter, then I'd imagine both Suzaku and Kallen's would be the same, link up to the World of C. If its during season, then they'd likely be related to fighting. Given Suzaku's ideologies, it would likely be non-violent, while Kallen's would be probably disabling or scaring away.
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Old 2009-03-16, 14:17   Link #4005
bladeofdarkness
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i already once suggested that kallens geass would make her 3 times faster (or at least see the world as 3 times slower)
suzaku would have a geass that makes people switch sides or make them idealistic as hell
kaguya would have a geass that makes anyone around her genki as hell
rivals would make himself invisible
anya would make people forget whatever it was they were trying to do
gino... who cares
Schneizel would have the same type lelouch has
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Old 2009-03-16, 15:35   Link #4006
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Originally Posted by Frostfire View Post
Are we talking during or post season/show? If its the latter, then I'd imagine both Suzaku and Kallen's would be the same, link up to the World of C. If its during season, then they'd likely be related to fighting. Given Suzaku's ideologies, it would likely be non-violent, while Kallen's would be probably disabling or scaring away.
Yeah. I was thinking that Suzaku, if he wanted a geass post-show, would get a Geass for letting him communicate with his loved ones that passed on to the World of C (i. e. Lelouch, Euphemia, Genbu).
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Old 2009-03-16, 15:51   Link #4007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
i already once suggested that kallens geass would make her 3 times faster (or at least see the world as 3 times slower)
suzaku would have a geass that makes people switch sides or make them idealistic as hell
kaguya would have a geass that makes anyone around her genki as hell
rivals would make himself invisible
anya would make people forget whatever it was they were trying to do
gino... who cares
Schneizel would have the same type lelouch has
Rolo's Geass would already be better than Karen's since his allowed him to stop people's motor functions and perception of time entirely. She'd have something that forces them to stay within a certain perimetre of a blood relative.

For Suzaku I would say his would be the ability to curb ones perception of pain or perhaps temporarily grant them the physical ability to achieve whatever goal they needed to at a given time regardless of their bodies ability to handle it (that would be the side effect). Li could probably end up with the same one.

Kaguya would probably allow her to make anybody feel any emotion she chose seeing as how every time she's on the screen she's showing some sort of extreme emotion.

Anya's makes enough sense to me.

Schneizel's would be like Lelouche's but it would have the effect of making the person have to do the next thing they are asked to by anyone else other than Schneizel.

Nina's would grant the person a temporary IQ boost or knowledge they didn't otherwise have that would allow them to do what they wanted, but then it would go away. Flowers for Algernon anyone?

Euphemia's would have allowed another person to know what another person's true intentions were. Kind of like a corralary to Charles' and similar to Mao's.

More to come....good topic by the way, much better than just griping about the show till the cows come home. I might have to steal it and turn it into a blog post at some point.
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Old 2009-03-16, 16:02   Link #4008
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Originally Posted by Frostfire View Post
In Turn 23 he says that he may understand her better, but he gets shrugged off.
Sorry, I really dont want to get involved in this arguement. But I just want to say, I dont remember him being shrugged off by Kallen after he said that. She looked more confused than anything, and she did acknowledge what he said. She just gave a wierd answer: "Your Welcome." sorry if Im wrong, but I didnt see her shrugging him off. *Im not defending Kagino, Im just confused myself! XD*
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Old 2009-03-16, 16:31   Link #4009
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Originally Posted by ginran View Post
Sorry, I really dont want to get involved in this arguement. But I just want to say, I dont remember him being shrugged off by Kallen after he said that. She looked more confused than anything, and she did acknowledge what he said. She just gave a wierd answer: "Your Welcome." sorry if Im wrong, but I didnt see her shrugging him off. *Im not defending Kagino, Im just confused myself! XD*
I think Kallen was confused(ignored if you count turn 9) like she has always expressed to whatever he says. Just from the tone of her voice when she gave her strange answer. He sounded disappointed in my opinion given his response.
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Old 2009-03-16, 16:36   Link #4010
Frostfire
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Originally Posted by ginran View Post
Sorry, I really dont want to get involved in this arguement. But I just want to say, I dont remember him being shrugged off by Kallen after he said that. She looked more confused than anything, and she did acknowledge what he said. She just gave a wierd answer: "Your Welcome." sorry if Im wrong, but I didnt see her shrugging him off. *Im not defending Kagino, Im just confused myself! XD*
"I think I understand you better."
"Uhh... you're welcome."

Follow her expression, she's confused. People tend to be confused when they either a.) don't care, b.) have other things on their mind... and don't care, or c.) have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

All of them amount to, given the oddity of the reply, being shrugged off. Otherwise she would have asked, "what?".
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Old 2009-03-16, 16:38   Link #4011
ginran
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Originally Posted by SonOfHeaven View Post
I think Kallen was confused(ignored if you count turn 9) like she has always expressed to whatever he says. Just from the tone of her voice when she gave her strange answer. He sounded disappointed in my opinion given his response.
Well, then that makes more sense. I just wanted to point out that she didn't completely ignore what he said. Lol that's all.
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Old 2009-03-16, 16:44   Link #4012
ginran
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Originally Posted by Frostfire View Post
"I think I understand you better."
"Uhh... you're welcome."

Follow her expression, she's confused. People tend to be confused when they either a.) don't care, b.) have other things on their mind... and don't care, or c.) have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

All of them amount to, given the oddity of the reply, being shrugged off. Otherwise she would have asked, "what?".
Well, I'd say maybe a mix of b and c (more b) are most accurate in this case, minus the "not caring" part. Really, disregarding someone like that doesn't seem to fit Kallen, but maybe it's just me.
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Old 2009-03-16, 16:48   Link #4013
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Originally Posted by Frostfire View Post
"I think I understand you better."
"Uhh... you're welcome."

Follow her expression, she's confused. People tend to be confused when they either a.) don't care, b.) have other things on their mind... and don't care, or c.) have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

All of them amount to, given the oddity of the reply, being shrugged off. Otherwise she would have asked, "what?".
Probably not so much of your "b" option. Since she did ask him the question in the first place. So she wasn't thinking about Lelouch at that moment, afterward she was. Just her response and his made it seem like she didn't care for what he had to say and he probably knew that. She was probably expecting something like he told Suzaku during turn 24.
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Old 2009-03-16, 16:51   Link #4014
Frostfire
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Originally Posted by ginran View Post
Well, I'd say maybe a mix of b and c (more b) are most accurate in this case, minus the "not caring" part. Really, disregarding someone like that doesn't seem to fit Kallen, but maybe it's just me.
You forget that a few episodes prior he was talking trash to her and her dreams, so it's not exactly out of the question. Overall though, she did disregard him as you can tell by his own "that's it?"-esc reply, and the fact that she didn't try to clear up the "what the heck are you talking about" part.

She literally did reply with an "Ehh... You're welcome." That's not much of an "I care what you're saying" reply, its a "whatever you say" reply.

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Originally Posted by SonOfHeaven View Post
Probably not so much of your "b" option. Since she did ask him the question in the first place. So she wasn't thinking about Lelouch at that moment, afterward she was. Just her response and his made it seem like she didn't care for what he had to say. She was probably expecting something like he told Suzaku during turn 24.
True. I think it may fall into something where she was expecting a different reply and didn't care much for the reply he gave, for whatever reason. Perhaps she did not believe him, seeing as how he gave a different reply later to Suzaku.
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Old 2009-03-16, 16:55   Link #4015
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Originally Posted by ginran View Post
Well, I'd say maybe a mix of b and c (more b) are most accurate in this case, minus the "not caring" part. Really, disregarding someone like that doesn't seem to fit Kallen, but maybe it's just me.
Not just you, I think you got it right with a mix of "confused, but acknowledged what he said".
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Old 2009-03-16, 17:00   Link #4016
SonOfHeaven
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Originally Posted by Frostfire View Post
True. I think it may fall into something where she was expecting a different reply and didn't care much for the reply he gave, for whatever reason. Perhaps she did not believe him, seeing as how he gave a different reply later to Suzaku.
I'm thinking she expected an response to show why he changed sides so suddenly. Since she knows how loyal Gino was to Britannia(pretty much gave Kallen the middle finger technically during turn 17 and 18). If he told Kallen what he told Suzaku. She probably wouldn't have gave to response she did. From Kallen's POV, he changed sides because he understood her a tiny bit(unless he became clear about it off screen). That's probably the reason she gave him that confused look and the response.

Now that I think about it. Its funny actually both Lelouch and Kallen always had confused expressions when dealing with Gino throughout the show.
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Old 2009-03-16, 17:01   Link #4017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginran View Post
Sorry, I really dont want to get involved in this arguement. But I just want to say, I dont remember him being shrugged off by Kallen after he said that. She looked more confused than anything, and she did acknowledge what he said. She just gave a wierd answer: "Your Welcome." sorry if Im wrong, but I didnt see her shrugging him off. *Im not defending Kagino, Im just confused myself! XD*
That scene was there to show, how two people from complete different background and stuff, that have nothing in common {actually Kallen disliked him} can "unite" under threat of a "universal" enemy.
It was certainly not important/woah/"romantic" or anything like this, but it showed a bit of +progress, compared to their previous interactions.
Just a nice/cool/normal scene to end the BGM-scenes-skip.
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Old 2009-03-16, 17:09   Link #4018
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Anya is not someone you want to use as a comparison because she was brainwashed into her place. She has no willingness being there, Gino has every willingness.
Which is why I went back to Gino right after listing her.
But maybe I should have said "the KoR" instead, because most of them were rather young.

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You are helping me make my point that he is a pure born psychopath. He isn't a soldier following orders, he is a general telling his soldiers to eliminate innocent people to shut them up.
This argument seems rather pointless to me.
If Gino is really such a psychopath, then the third season will probably have him as the Evil Main Character of Doom. xD
This is completely up to personal interpretation.

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A psychopath is a psychopath, there is not such thing as "partly psychopathic". If you can find a better comparison between them, that takes into account the elimantion of a ghetto and the desire to exterminate civilians seeking refuge, then please, point out the comparison.
Why should I even want to compare fictional character to people in real life all the time?
And we could muse about psychologial issues now and how some can be more severe than others, but I don't think that would get us anywhere.

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Until then, I am going to compare the KoR to their most recent equivalent.
Then maybe we should really move on, because we see the KoR in a completely different light, excpet that we both don't think of them as "moral".

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Or the staff didn't give a damn? You can't just say he lived because he was redeemable. You have utterly nothing to base that on, whereas I have everything to base on that he is a psychopath and murderer.
Code Geass was all about how people are merely looking for happiness, and how most of them are able to change.
If Leouch had left the world with thousands of psychos running around and waiting for a chance to kill again, the ending would have been rather pointless.

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The same isn't true of me, because I am not saying "maybe the staff did this". I don't care what the staff meant to do, I am showing you what the staff did do. There is no if and or but about waiting for a pretext to kill civilians. That is evil in its all so purest form.
This is an anime, which is why I disagree.
But we'll probably never get anywhere here.

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Bismark's role was larger, Monica had the same number of lines. The only thing that he had over them was being best-gay-buds with Suzaku.
Which means we saw something of his more "human" side. The same wasn't really true for the other KoR.
Well, Bismarck, maybe... in a way... but I got the impression he was completely loyal to Charles - not even to Britannia as a whole. That made it a bit hard to let him survive.

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Or died when he fell from several kilometers up, or when his KMF was cut in half, and I can keep going.
Then there's absolutely no reason why the staff should have let him live if he was the Ultimate Evil.


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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
Yeah, because everyone deserving of punishment got what they deserved right? *looks at Viletta*
When did we go back to this "deserving punishment" thing?

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If we were to compare, Gino was someone directly under the command of the Emperor. If Charles was as "evil" as Hitler then you tell me, would Gino be the equivalent of a staff officer under Hitler?
I don't think Charles is the same as Hitler, and I don't like that comparison at all.
This is an anime, and Gino is not the Schutzstaffel.
And I'll not write an essay about why there is such a big difference. I'll only say that there is a reason why I could never like someone who happily tortured and killed people under Hitler, but am rather fond of Cornelia.
It has to do with reality and fiction, and how I can't seperate mere moral standards from a fictional character's personality.

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Again, using Rome as an example was a poor choice. Rome did not encourage conquered areas to assimilate into it's culture, hell the Romans took on so much of the Greek culture and arts that many people say that though the Romans conquered the Greeks, culturally it is the other way around. In fact Caesar's last words to Brutus was not in Latin but in Greek. Even in terms of religion, the Romans believed that the gods of other cultures are the gods of the region and made no move to force conquered areas to adopt Roman religion. In fact even in the Roman Legions, the auxiliaries were encouraged to keep the weapons and skills of their people to compliment the Legionaries if they proved to be useful. This is completely incomparable to the Numbers system which was just oppression through brute force and the erasing of the conquered cultural values. As we saw in the anime itself, it is not like the Areas had any loyalty to Britannia where as the allies of Rome held their loyalty to Rome even after the Roman army was defeated at Cannae by Hannibal left Rome without an army and at the mercy of the Carthaginian army. When Hannibal invaded he expected Rome's allies to be happy to rebel against their Roman oppressors and was baffled at the fact that they closed their gates to him and held fast to their loyalty to Rome. Rome granted citizenship or privileges to the areas conquered and their policies are one of the reasons they were able to forge such a strong empire. Very different to the Numbers system.
The Number System's purpose was to make the respective countires (economically) stable again, nothing more and nothing less.
I do not care about how nice the Romans were to the people they conquered. They used pleasure slaves and crucified people, and that's all I need to make my point about people assimilating into the society they live in.
But I think we went over that point already.

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Hitler did not kill the Jewish just for fun, it was a political move to push the problems onto the Jewish population as the German masses were already dissatisfied with them because they were wealthier or seen as such. Sacrifices if you will to ensure his support and backing.
Uhm... no. I'm pretty sure that Hitler didn't like the Jewish very much, just like he didn't like disabled people.

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And Cornelia? The cleansing of the Ghetto to lure out Zero, just for the purpose of luring out Zero. The killing of innocent Japanese or "Elevens" for a greater goal of capturing a terrorist. I dunno do you think Cornelia would have supported "hitler-esque" way of doing things?
Ah, let's move on... I don't like this Hitler thing.
I just can't compare those two. One is reality, one is fiction.
And I find Cornelia far more likable.

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And not racist? You are kidding me right? She was one of the ones originally protesting Suzaku's promotion, only Darlton supported it because he recognized Suzaku's abilities.
Cornelia distinguishes between rulers and subjects. It's not very nice, either, but it's not the same as racism.


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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
if we assume that geass manifests itself according to the person who posses it
what kind of geass do you think the other characters in the show would posses (suzaku, kallen, etc)
Suzaku's Geass would be the Geass of Absolute Masochism. Don't ask me about it, you don't want to know. xD
Clovis' Geass would be the Geass of Absolute Pointlessness. Or the one of Absolute Lelouch Stalking...
Arthur's Geass would be the Geass of Absolute Cuteness, so that he could lure Suzaku into a sense of false security over and over again. xD
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Old 2009-03-16, 17:17   Link #4019
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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post

Ah, let's move on... I don't like this Hitler thing.
I just can't compare those two. One is reality, one is fiction.
And I find Cornelia far more likable.
I won't compare Hitler or anything like this, but did you really think that Cornelia was grey-ish at that Ghetto-lure-out-Zero moment?
I can totally get, when one can still like a character, even after he has done some "non-moral" things. But, honest, that Cornelia move, belongs on the total paint-black side.
She was heavily featured as an assassination-trigger that moment, that held no default ethics at all. Can you still find a chara, "lot likable" after this?
Personally, things like these, make a chara non-redeemable to my book.

[just asking, you see how cool-off i am lately, so do not take this with a hostile note. 8)]
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Old 2009-03-16, 17:22   Link #4020
bladeofdarkness
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so arthurs geass would make him kamineko

and about gino and kallen's scene...
i blame it completely on the rushed nature of the last few eps
it was a way of saying to the viewers "now gino is with the OOBK"
since they never showed ANYTHING about that before or explained about it later (what exactly is it within him that he wants to defeand ?)
they didnt explain how he got his (broken and grounded) tristan to horai island fast enough for rakshata to have time to not only fix but upgrade it
didnt explain how he got the OOBK to trust him enough to let one of their sworn enemies joing them (he did kinda kill one of them )
didnt even show WHY he chose to joined them in the first place
he knows absolutly no-one there aside from kallen, and even she isnt so much his friend as an enemy who's name he happens to know
they have him interact with kallen becouse there was no one else for him to talk to there that would make sense
so they have kallen ask him "are you sure you would be ok to fight britannia" to show that he switched sides (unlike anya who was simply with shnizel)
him telling her "i understand how you feel alittle" as if this actually explains anything
and her telling him "your welcome" as a way of saying "cool, whatever" (and he questions what kind of answer is that)
its all becouse they didnt have time to explain it at all
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