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Old 2009-12-15, 22:11   Link #6901
morbosfist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
The Gareths were wiping the floor with the regular black knight grunts, and let's be honest here the BKs were able to break through Lelouch's front line only because they had Kallen (who could break through just on her own), Xingke, and Todou all pushing and concentrated on one point. Lelouch only had Suzaku as his ace.

If the battle depended on just grunts Lelouch had the clear advantage. He had the professional soldiers while the BKs had resistance fighters, i.e random joes off the street plus the odd solider. And while the BKs may have been ideologically motivated, nothing compares to Geass'd soldiers who wouldn't give ground even under heavy casualties...That resolve alone is enough to win a battle.
Hell hath frozen over, for we actually agree.

Technically Xingke was still in the air, but he would have gotten himself killed in his half-dead state with a half-broken Knightmare. Chiba at least stopped Tohdoh from stupidly throwing his life away.

But anyway, exactly this. Even if we count numerical superiority on the Black Knights, the Britannians were a lot better equipped and trained, not to mention inhumanly motivated. In a normal battle they'd have broken the Black Knights eventually.
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Old 2009-12-15, 22:16   Link #6902
Betteroffer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
The Gareths were wiping the floor with the regular black knight grunts, and let's be honest here the BKs were able to break through Lelouch's front line only because they had Kallen (who could break through just on her own), Xingke, and Todou all pushing and concentrated on one point. Lelouch only had Suzaku as his ace.

If the battle depended on just grunts Lelouch had the clear advantage. He had the professional soldiers while the BKs had resistance fighters, i.e random joes off the street plus the odd solider. And while the BKs may have been ideologically motivated, nothing compares to Geass'd soldiers who wouldn't give ground even under heavy casualties...That resolve alone is enough to win a battle.
Actually, the UFN merged their various militaries into a single cohesive force. This was pointed out as being done to deal with the conflicts that would come up from different national forces working together. That said, we aren't sure of the time between when the UFN was founded and the Fuji battle, so there was a fair chance that any non-Japanese forces might not be the ideal pilots, let alone effectively trained to use Akatsukis. I agree with everything else though.
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Old 2009-12-16, 08:50   Link #6903
Paladinoras
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Actually, the UFN merged their various militaries into a single cohesive force. This was pointed out as being done to deal with the conflicts that would come up from different national forces working together. That said, we aren't sure of the time between when the UFN was founded and the Fuji battle, so there was a fair chance that any non-Japanese forces might not be the ideal pilots, let alone effectively trained to use Akatsukis. I agree with everything else though.
Brittania was the most militaristic country as of Code Geass, so it would only make more sense that no matter what, they would have the higher number of trained soldiers. UFN may consist of half the world, but the member countries have been oppressed by the Brittanians for years, so i don't think their military strength can actually compare.
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Old 2009-12-16, 08:55   Link #6904
bladeofdarkness
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actually, the member nations of the UFN are countries that have NOT been under britannian rule
these are countires who spent years fighting AGAINST britannia, and are still free despite having less advance KMFs (4th gens)
which means that the OOBK now had a large group of trained soldiers who have now been given, for the first time, KMFs that can fight ON par with britannia's army

the concept of "random joes off the street" is completely false at that point
and the level of "training" that the britannian soldiers had was shown to be less then impressive throughout the second season
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Old 2009-12-16, 08:56   Link #6905
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And we have to take into account that Britannia represented the half of the world that seems to be more technologically developed as well. As Paladinoras mentioned, the UFN also consisted of countries that have been oppressed by Britannians for years as well as governments in exile like Japan that still have their countries oppressed by Britannia. Not to mention, thanks to Schneizel's little romp in Europe, we do not know just how much military strength was lost there fighting against Britannia and whether they had the time to rebuild, though chances are, Europe was likely not doing so well militarily from their willingness to join the UFN. Athough that could also be that they would rather be under UFN then Britannia
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Old 2009-12-16, 09:03   Link #6906
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
actually, the member nations of the UFN are countries that have NOT been under britannian rule
these are countires who spent years fighting AGAINST britannia, and are still free despite having less advance KMFs (4th gens)
which means that the OOBK now had a large group of trained soldiers who have now been given, for the first time, KMFs that can fight ON par with britannia's army

the concept of "random joes off the street" is completely false at that point
and the level of "training" that the britannian soldiers had was shown to be less then impressive throughout the second season
Fighting...and LOSING for years. The countries that survived are merely byproducts of Britannia's apparent disinterest in them. If Brittania saw some sort of merit in invading and conquering those countries, then they will. China has also apparently struck some sort of peace treaty with Brittania, so they cannot be relied upon. The other countries don't also seem to be very good in fighting.

Plus, Brittania had been fighting for years and years, nothing replaces experience in a war. Seems like the military are the main jobs for Brittanians anyway. UFN will prolly have to rely on conscripts.
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Old 2009-12-16, 09:15   Link #6907
bladeofdarkness
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all the experience they had and all the technological edge they had was shown, very clearly, to be nonsense
the entire second half of ep 23 is basiclly a clear demonstration of how badly out-matcehd lelouch was when it comes to conventional tactics
for all the talk about how his troops are more experianced or better equiped or more disciplined (because of geass), the fact remains that they were getting their butts handed to them by the black knights

Lelouch admits that he never expected them to be this powerful of an enemy when faced against him, and has to resort to his normal strategy of flipping over the chessboard

i'm getting kinda tired of people saying crap like "the OOBK are a rag tag bunch of misfits who cant mesure up to the glorious britannian army"
when the entire last battle is just a 5 minute long demonstration of just how much better they are then britannian soldiers
even when lelouch is in command of them and they are all geassed to follow orders without any objections, they get torn apart.

its like saying "suzaku cant run a 100 feet without stopping to catch his breath
or "kallen cant pilot a KMF"
its nonsense, that flies in the face of what we actually see on the screen
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Old 2009-12-16, 09:29   Link #6908
demon_god04
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Oh, the Black Knights were not just some rag tag bunch of misfits after the UFN for sure, they did start out as such but Lelouch made them into a major political and military power.

But the thing is, atleast to me, ep 23 just showed how overpowered the aces were and how much Lelouch needed more. I mean strategically, Schneizel and Lelouch were fairly even, it was when Schneizel commited all his "Aces" that he had the upper hand. I mean lets face it nothing can match up to an Ace character in Code Geass, grunts just roll over and explode for them. Lelouch did not have problems until Gino, Anya, Todou and his girlfriend, Xingke and Kallen rolled out and made his troops explode.

Point is, if we disregard the aces, I'd say that the Britannian military likely had the edge over the UFN because their troops were better equipped and geass motivated.
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Old 2009-12-16, 09:39   Link #6909
Paladinoras
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post

i'm getting kinda tired of people saying crap like "the OOBK are a rag tag bunch of misfits who cant mesure up to the glorious britannian army"
when the entire last battle is just a 5 minute long demonstration of just how much better they are then britannian soldiers
even when lelouch is in command of them and they are all geassed to follow orders without any objections, they get torn apart.

its like saying "suzaku cant run a 100 feet without stopping to catch his breath
or "kallen cant pilot a KMF"
its nonsense, that flies in the face of what we actually see on the screen
Actually, I never said that the OOBK was a ragtag group of misfits, just that technically, the Brittanian army should be better.

But I suddenly came to the realization that Lelouch probably killed all of the good, experienced soldiers and only left the crap ones behind.

So he is handicapping himself. Lol
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Old 2009-12-16, 09:41   Link #6910
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Lelouch would have the clear advantage if he had the remnants of the Knight of Rounds on his side.
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Old 2009-12-16, 09:43   Link #6911
bladeofdarkness
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he COULD have had another super ace on his side
he just chose not to
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Old 2009-12-16, 09:45   Link #6912
demon_god04
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Yeah, sigh, and it would make me happy if Lelouch and Kallen got together but whats done is done. Still blade, doesn't it kind of piss you off that the grunts were really non factors by the end and its really just a matter of having more super aces on your side?
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Old 2009-12-16, 09:45   Link #6913
Paladinoras
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He only had one.

Suzaku. XD
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Old 2009-12-16, 09:47   Link #6914
demon_god04
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Lelouch had Suzaku and Orange kun never forget the cyborg that is 200% loyalty
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Old 2009-12-16, 09:48   Link #6915
bladeofdarkness
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it pisses me off to no end that this is how it turned out, especially given how the first season was
i dont remember a single case of a 5th gen and above KMF being destroyed by an akatsuki (mass production unit)
and only one case i can remember of a ward taking someone out
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Old 2009-12-16, 09:54   Link #6916
Paladinoras
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Code Geass is still a mecha anime...

and like all mecha animes, latest gen robots/Gundams/KMFs or anything...cannot be defeated by lower classed ones.

That is just the word of god. Lol
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Old 2009-12-16, 09:56   Link #6917
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladinoras View Post
Code Geass is still a mecha anime...

and like all mecha animes, latest gen robots/Gundams/KMFs or anything...cannot be defeated by lower classed ones.

That is just the word of god. Lol


dude
7th gen mass production models were never shown to kill even lesser gen MOOKS
there isnt one case of an akatsuki unit taking out even a satherland
and only one case where a ward unit kills ANYONE

litteraly, every single kill scored by a OOBK soldier is dones by an ace pilot from ep 11 onward
and all but one britannian kill
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Old 2009-12-16, 09:58   Link #6918
demon_god04
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
it pisses me off to no end that this is how it turned out, especially given how the first season was
i dont remember a single case of a 5th gen and above KMF being destroyed by an akatsuki (mass production unit)
and only one case i can remember of a ward taking someone out
that pisses me off a lot because I loved the design on the Akatsukis. Plus I loved the mecha combat in the first season, sure you still have aces performing better then the average grunt but they were not as overwhelming as they are in the second season.
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Old 2009-12-16, 10:00   Link #6919
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
that pisses me off a lot because I loved the design on the Akatsukis. Plus I loved the mecha combat in the first season, sure you still have aces performing better then the average grunt but they were not as overwhelming as they are in the second season.
true
but i stand corrected
there is a scene in ep 25 right at the start where a bunch of wards and a garath attack the damocles shield only to get taken out by a flight of akatsukis
i just noticed it
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Old 2009-12-16, 10:05   Link #6920
demon_god04
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Ah, it's been too long since I saw it. Still, it stands that the battles could have been better planned then just the aces going out and laying waste to everything while looking cool. I had hoped that with the Knight of Round Monica we might see some grunt action as she is more of a commander type is she not?
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