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Old 2010-09-07, 07:41   Link #7701
Cephei Mordred
Lord Knight of SYTOM
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
I'm not sure Mao's your best example here, given that he is the poster boy for what I like to call 'too insane to be truly evil.' He surely did horrific things but he also clearly belonged in a padded room with a straitjacket, and it was all because C.C. gave him Geass at such a young age.

In other words, you can't quite blame a rabid dog for what they do.
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Old 2010-09-07, 09:05   Link #7702
Laurcus
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Well Arbitres, I gotta agree and disagree with you. I don't believe geass twists the mind of the user, at least no more than any other method of gaining absolute power. Geass is the power of the king, therefore it should only be wielded by a king. And I don't mean someone that's a king in name only, but someone that is truely worthy of being a king. Someone that is both intelligent and wise, a true paragon. The power isn't inherently evil, it's just that people like Mao (and perhaps Lelouch) are too weak to control it.

As for Death note, the exact wording of rule number 11 is "The person in possession of the Death Note is possessed by a god of death, its original owner, until they die". That seems pretty cut and dry to me. So basically, I just blame Ryuk for all of Death note.
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Old 2010-09-07, 12:45   Link #7703
azul120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbitres View Post
Oh. I didn't remember that rule. Then again it's been quite some time since I've watched it on adult swim. So I suppose Ryuk is in the end, the real Kira? Well maybe that might be an over-analysis but whatever.
Amusing thought. Ryuk was the most intriguing DN character in a way. He just liked having fun.

Quote:
I really have to disagree with this though, the Mao part I mean. Yes I hate his guts for mindraping Shirley (On the contrary of popular belief, I actually like because of her ridiculously sweet nature.) but it's because of the following:

Mao was a child when he got his geass, so that warped him more then anything. (Since a child really doesn't need to experience what other's real thoughts or experiences are), as a result he grew a dependency on C.C., who was the only person's mind he couldn't read.

So basically, it isn't being weak as it is horrible luck. As well as it being C.C. wanting to have her wish fulfilled so much, she is willing to warp a child. (Even though the thought is tempting she didn't know better, this is C.C., who is incredibly intelligent.)

Meh... I can't really explain this really well. Maybe I should let someone else do it. I don't like Mao, but I don't hate him either. I'm just aware of what drove him insane, more or less.

... Yeah, leaving it to someone else.
C. C. herself was a person incapable of knowing what it was to feel love, given her torturous life, where she was either put on a pedestal for some reason, or looked down on as either a peasant, a pawn (by the nun who gave her the geass and subsequently the Code) or a witch. She made the unfortunate choice of abandoning Mao because she thought he would become self reliant once he was by himself. You would think she would stick around just a little while longer for him to be able to take her code. Go figure.

As for Shirley, the haters are irrational. In a world of Black and Grey Morality, she was one of the few things that could have saved Lelouch. Nowhere was this more evident than R2 13, right before she ran into Rolo. I feel that helped convert her in many fans' eyes.
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Old 2010-09-07, 16:52   Link #7704
Aquaman OS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post

As for Death note, the exact wording of rule number 11 is "The person in possession of the Death Note is possessed by a god of death, its original owner, until they die". That seems pretty cut and dry to me. So basically, I just blame Ryuk for all of Death note.
That would not be accurate. What that line meant was that the person would be haunted by the god of death, until they died. Meaning Ryuk had to hang around light all the time, which he did, and why once he killed Light Ryuk immediately had to head back to the death realm.

Light was all his own fault. He was basically a serial killer with his taste of first blood. Once he forgot the thrill of the kill he was sane again but once he remembered he went back to his murderous ways.
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Old 2010-09-07, 17:11   Link #7705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
That would not be accurate. What that line meant was that the person would be haunted by the god of death, until they died. Meaning Ryuk had to hang around light all the time, which he did, and why once he killed Light Ryuk immediately had to head back to the death realm.

Light was all his own fault. He was basically a serial killer with his taste of first blood. Once he forgot the thrill of the kill he was sane again but once he remembered he went back to his murderous ways.
Light was surprised and shocked at the same time when he tested the Death Note for the first time, and it actually worked, when he continued to use the Death Note for his own selfish purpose of becoming the god of a new world. While that is impossible since he is bringing the world into fear, instead of making people feel blessed by having Kira. So yeah..

Lelouch did the same thing, but bringing the world under his rule through the abusive use of Geass, he wanted to get everyone to hate him. So that all the hatred within people will vanish when the last events occurred.
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Old 2010-09-07, 17:56   Link #7706
Aquaman OS
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Although he claims that, for all intents and purposes he mostly seems to just enjoy bullying and killing people with his Death Note and feeling the triumph of defeating people. Being the God of the new world gets brought up less and less and seems more of a weak attempt to justify himself rather than any true goal.

I stand by my believe that Light was just a bully and crazed killer who was given the means to do so.
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Old 2010-09-07, 17:58   Link #7707
Laurcus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
That would not be accurate. What that line meant was that the person would be haunted by the god of death, until they died. Meaning Ryuk had to hang around light all the time, which he did, and why once he killed Light Ryuk immediately had to head back to the death realm.

Light was all his own fault. He was basically a serial killer with his taste of first blood. Once he forgot the thrill of the kill he was sane again but once he remembered he went back to his murderous ways.
I calls em as I sees em. That's the exact wording of the rule, so that's how I interpret it. Besides, the god of death's obligation to stick around until the owner of the death note dies is mentioned in a few other rules as well, seems redundant to me.
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Old 2010-09-07, 18:15   Link #7708
azul120
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Originally Posted by Hooves View Post
Lelouch did the same thing, but bringing the world under his rule through the abusive use of Geass, he wanted to get everyone to hate him. So that all the hatred within people will vanish when the last events occurred.
Only during the Zero Requiem, which was largely a covert death wish.
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Old 2010-09-08, 16:56   Link #7709
Subzero00
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is lelouch
Spoiler for end:
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Old 2010-09-08, 17:07   Link #7710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subzero00 View Post
is lelouch
Spoiler for end:
If that is a question then

Spoiler for Answer:
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Old 2010-09-09, 01:13   Link #7711
Hsadman
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Hey there everyone,

This is a rather interesting topic I picked up from a friend, sorry if its already been said.

Its that do you thing Jeremiah's Geass Canceler would allow Lelouch to repetitively Geass people regardless, or would only work if it actually cancels a long term Geass effect.

Spoiler for R2:


So for example, if you Geassed a guy to do 100 push ups, and he does. Do you think the Geass Canceler would still allow Lelouch to Geass them again? Or since there isn't anything left to cancel, it would remain without effect?

I'm gonna stay neutral on this one myself.
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Old 2010-09-09, 01:43   Link #7712
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by Hsadman View Post
Hey there everyone,

This is a rather interesting topic I picked up from a friend, sorry if its already been said.

Its that do you thing Jeremiah's Geass Canceler would allow Lelouch to repetitively Geass people regardless, or would only work if it actually cancels a long term Geass effect.

Spoiler for R2:


So for example, if you Geassed a guy to do 100 push ups, and he does. Do you think the Geass Canceler would still allow Lelouch to Geass them again? Or since there isn't anything left to cancel, it would remain without effect?

I'm gonna stay neutral on this one myself.
Shirley is proof it works regardless of context. What the Canceller does is negate all standing effects of Geass, including memory loss and the immunity gained therein. Shirley's Geass was an immediate effect the same as your example: forget X. Once X is forgotten, the command no longer has anything left todo.
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Old 2010-09-09, 22:38   Link #7713
Cephei Mordred
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Question:

Did Lelouch prepare contingencies to ensure that Jeremiah would be utterly incapable of being within Geass Canceller range of Schneizel? That could, though admittedly not likely, be a dealbreaker for the posthumous success of the Zero Requiem.
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Old 2010-09-09, 23:02   Link #7714
morbosfist
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It's as simple as telling Jeremiah not to use it in range of Schneizel. Jeremiah isn't going to be wide-area degeassing people now, and he can control the affected area.
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Old 2010-09-10, 16:16   Link #7715
Cephei Mordred
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I don't know, that might cut the chance down to .001 percent of such a thing happening, but...I'd say even that percentage is too great a risk.
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Old 2010-09-10, 17:14   Link #7716
Betteroffer
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Jeremiah's maximum range is probably around a city block at most, given that he would want to cover as large an area as possible when he was patrolling Tokyo and using the Canceller to free any victims of Lelouch. As such, as long as Jeremiah is a block away or more, he cannot Cancel Schneizel.

Beyond this, there is the fact that Jeremiah is off somewhere on an orange farm (irony!) with Anya. As such he is likely in the countryside of whatever city Schneizel is living in at the absolute closest, but is more likely several hundred miles away. The chance that they'll ever be in the same city again may be small to nonexistent, since Schneizel would likely have his schedule semi-publically known given his position. As such, if they want to be super paranoid, Jeremiah could keep track of Schneizel's location and/or be notified to take a trip out of town for a day or so on the off chance that Schneizel had to come near where Jeremiah lived.

Now I'd like to pose a question/discussion topic: Can Lelouch's Geass affect emotions? In The Sum Of Our Choices fanfic, C.C. says that his Geass can make a person say they love him and it can make them act like they love him, but it can't actually make them love him.

That is, if Lelouch commanded someone to feel a certain way about something, would their minds be shifted to alter their opinion spontaneously, akin to being told to forget something, would they be placed in a constant Geass-trance akin to being ordered to be slaves, or would they do nothing like when Clovis was asked a question he didn't know the answer to.
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Old 2010-09-11, 05:12   Link #7717
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbitres View Post
Geass effects the mind, so if Lelouch said 'Die', it's possible the person is overcome with despair and dementia (and/or self-destructive tendencies) which results in their death. Lelouch's geass seems to effect the mind in such a way that it gets what he wants.

His geass is different from C.C.'s and the spinoff Blue Moon geass, which it doesn't directly involve any kind of neediness of being loved. So I wouldn't know. I think his geass can make people fall in love with him, since it is very possible his geass can alter minds like that as well.... Or maybe not, whichever.
it would be more simple and accurate to say "geass effects the plot"
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Old 2010-09-11, 05:17   Link #7718
Kittenlady
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Considering how happy Lelouch's victims looked about killing themselves, I'd say the geass just overrides the brain to really want to follow whatever command he gives them, and that's it.

When Euphy was killing the Japanese, she never showed any hatred or reason to want them dead, she was just gleefully doing the "Let's kill them all! It'll be a massacre! : D" part. So as far as emotions go, Lelouch's actually makes people really happy about what they're being forced to do.
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Old 2010-09-11, 05:36   Link #7719
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbitres View Post
Geass effects the mind, so if Lelouch said 'Die', it's possible the person is overcome with despair and dementia (and/or self-destructive tendencies) which results in their death. Lelouch's geass seems to effect the mind in such a way that it gets what he wants.

His geass is different from C.C.'s and the spinoff Blue Moon geass, which it doesn't directly involve any kind of neediness of being loved. So I wouldn't know. I think his geass can make people fall in love with him, since it is very possible his geass can alter minds like that as well.... Or maybe not, whichever.
Lulu's Geass makes the person involved try his or her best to fufill the order to the best of their ability. So in this case it would be like the Geassed victim will TRY to love him, much like how people in arranged marriages do when they have never met their future spouse before.
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Old 2010-09-11, 13:28   Link #7720
Betteroffer
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When a person is told to forget something, they apparently repress the memory and then resume being themselves, just without the memory. When Euphemia was ordered to kill the Japanese she was constantly under the control of the Geass, rather than merely having her brain chemistry tweaked to genuinely want to kill them.

We don't really see much of C.C.'s Geass, so for all we know, her Geass put everyone affected by it into a trance akin to Lelouch's orders that people be his slaves forever, meaning that if the Geass were ever neutralized, the victim would have no memory of anything for all the years that they had been Geassed. Even if it actually could make people love her, there is no guarantee that Lelouch's could do the same.
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