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Old 2010-09-26, 17:08   Link #7741
Cephei Mordred
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Are you saying that you would have taken the information in stride?

Even if you could, could you honestly be sure if Lelouch could, or if anyone else could?
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Old 2010-09-26, 17:39   Link #7742
azul120
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It might have been a lot to digest, but who's to say he wouldn't have been able to? Besides, he already had a ton of crap dumped on him anyways.
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Old 2010-09-26, 18:19   Link #7743
Nogitsune
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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
It might have been a lot to digest, but who's to say he wouldn't have been able to? Besides, he already had a ton of crap dumped on him anyways.
True, but having a rough childhood does not mean you'll take betrayal better than other people or be more psychologically stable than them.

Chances are Lelouch positively worshipped his mother like pretty much everyone else. The only thing worse than Marianne ruining his life on purpose would probably be Nunnally ruining his life on purpose, so Lelouch's reaction could have been anything from going into denial for a while and giving C.C. a bit of hate to going on a killing spree.
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Old 2010-09-26, 18:29   Link #7744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
True, but having a rough childhood does not mean you'll take betrayal better than other people or be more psychologically stable than them.

Chances are Lelouch positively worshipped his mother like pretty much everyone else. The only thing worse than Marianne ruining his life on purpose would probably be Nunnally ruining his life on purpose, so Lelouch's reaction could have been anything from going into denial for a while and giving C.C. a bit of hate to going on a killing spree.
Lelouch had a pretty cruel life if you add both of those together
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Old 2010-09-26, 18:53   Link #7745
azul120
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What I meant was C. C. giving it to him straight the first chance she could (meaning episode 1, in Shinjuku Ghetto).
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Old 2010-09-26, 20:29   Link #7746
Cephei Mordred
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Still, I kind of think it was sensible to hide it from him. Even if he COULD have taken the news in stride, the chance that he wouldn't is too much of a risk to everything. And you're right about the idea of Nunnally betraying him would be the worst thing. That was alluded to in Lelouch's final 'battle' with Charles. He became utterly unhinged when Charles said that Nunnally isn't as perfect as Lelouch thinks she is.

"I WILL NOT LET YOU CALL THAT A LIE! OVER MY DEAD BODY!"

Ah...good times, good times.
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Old 2010-09-26, 22:44   Link #7747
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Now I want to re-watch R2.

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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
What I meant was C. C. giving it to him straight the first chance she could (meaning episode 1, in Shinjuku Ghetto).
In Shinjuku? C.C. was kind of... preoccupied there. Was she supposed to throw it in while making the contract? Lelouch would probably have been shot before he got over it. xD And why should she have done that, anyway? Back then, she didn't care about him as a person one tiny bit.

Though I imagine the conversation with Clovis would have been interesting...

"Well, you know, I originally intended to shoot you, but now I found out I should rather shoot my mother or something, so I'm kind of just here because C.C. just screwed up the plot..."
"I see... tea, then?"

...Oh God, the crack ideas.
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Old 2010-09-26, 23:17   Link #7748
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Does anyone remember what magazine that breast ranking from the first season was in? Was it Newtype or another magazine?
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Old 2010-09-27, 03:13   Link #7749
azul120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cephei Mordred View Post
Still, I kind of think it was sensible to hide it from him. Even if he COULD have taken the news in stride, the chance that he wouldn't is too much of a risk to everything. And you're right about the idea of Nunnally betraying him would be the worst thing. That was alluded to in Lelouch's final 'battle' with Charles. He became utterly unhinged when Charles said that Nunnally isn't as perfect as Lelouch thinks she is.

"I WILL NOT LET YOU CALL THAT A LIE! OVER MY DEAD BODY!"

Ah...good times, good times.
There was no such allusion there. Lelouch was arguing that what Nunnally wanted wasn't a world that was simply kind to her, but a world where she could be kind to others. To this effect he argued that there are things that people can't do on their own, and used Nunnally as an example, as she never gave up in spite of being crippled. The meaning behind her smile was one of gratitude, and how she wished to return that kindness. That notion is what Charles called a lie.

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Now I want to re-watch R2.



In Shinjuku? C.C. was kind of... preoccupied there. Was she supposed to throw it in while making the contract? Lelouch would probably have been shot before he got over it. xD And why should she have done that, anyway? Back then, she didn't care about him as a person one tiny bit.

Though I imagine the conversation with Clovis would have been interesting...

"Well, you know, I originally intended to shoot you, but now I found out I should rather shoot my mother or something, so I'm kind of just here because C.C. just screwed up the plot..."
"I see... tea, then?"

...Oh God, the crack ideas.
I was actually thinking more along the lines of episode 5, when C. C. found her way to the apartment. (C. C. wouldn't have had a chance to explain in episode 1.) There should have been some decent downtime there.
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Old 2010-09-27, 07:49   Link #7750
Cephei Mordred
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Honestly the whole 'final battle' with Lelouch and Charles was a bit of a mind screw for me. People kept saying things that didn't immediately make sense, either in the original japanese or in english.

In any case, I am not yet disproven. The point is, Charles basically said that Lelouch's worldview concerning Nunnally was wrong, and Lelouch became slightly unhinged about that.
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Old 2010-09-27, 11:53   Link #7751
azul120
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No. Charles said absolutely nothing to that effect. He and Marianne talked about wanting a world that was kind to them, and that was what not only what Nunnally, but also Euphemia, wanted. It was Lelouch's rebuttal in general that Charles called a lie. Lelouch may have gotten emotional regarding Nunnally there, but it was because he felt that Charles had disrespected her one too many times.
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Old 2010-09-27, 17:34   Link #7752
GundamFan0083
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I have a question.

Wasn't CC's wish to be truly loved by someone in earnest since her Geass made everyone she came in contact with love her artificially?

I ask because I didn't think Lelouch fulfilled her wish.
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Old 2010-09-27, 17:39   Link #7753
Cephei Mordred
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Well it depends on what you mean by love.
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Old 2010-09-27, 17:49   Link #7754
azul120
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It might have been love in the being treated as a human sense.
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Old 2010-09-27, 21:31   Link #7755
GundamFan0083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cephei Mordred View Post
Well it depends on what you mean by love.
I meant romantic love, because that's what she was seeking when she described her power of Geass to Lelouch.

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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
It might have been love in the being treated as a human sense.
I think that was certainly part of it, but I also got the impression from watching the C's World episode again that she was talking about actual romantic love.

That's why I say Lelouch didn't deliver because the R2 Guidebook states that Lelouch didn't love her romantically.
Kinda in the same way he rejected Kallen.

It's a shame that R2 was not written better.
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Old 2010-09-27, 23:05   Link #7756
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He never explicitly rejected Kallen though. He never got the chance to consummate his relationship with her either way because of the betrayal in R2 19 that pushed him over the edge.
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Old 2010-09-28, 00:06   Link #7757
GundamFan0083
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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
He never explicitly rejected Kallen though. He never got the chance to consummate his relationship with her either way because of the betrayal in R2 19 that pushed him over the edge.
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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
He never explicitly rejected Kallen though. He never got the chance to consummate his relationship with her either way because of the betrayal in R2 19 that pushed him over the edge.
Huh?

That's not what the R2 Guidebook says.
I've got a copy and have translated it.
In fact LijianLiang's translation is nearly identical to what I got out of the page (page 15).

Quote:
In Kallen's profile, it says, "Even though she is able to tell Lelouch, who assumed the seat of emperor, her decision of wanting to live and die alongside him, Lelouch rejects her. What he chose is Suzaku and C.C." By 'tell', it refers to the short period of time they spend walking around Ashford Academy before the UFN meeting and the kiss she shares with him. The profile also says that Kallen fought her hardest during the Fuji battle against Suzaku, but in the end, she was never able to capture Lelouch's mind or heart.
That's pretty darn close to what I read also, but whatever floats your boat azul120.

I'm easy.
If you want to believe that they could have had a relationship, then more power to you, but just please don't ask me to see it that way because R2 was such a wreck that any pairing was possible.

As I said elsewhere.
We were not given an Official Couple in this series and that kinda sucks. For all we know Roloko might be onto something and Lelouch x Rolo might have been the correct pairing.

I'm now on my....I think 13th time watching this series...let's see, 5 in japanese (fansubbed), 4 in English (adultswim 1, DVDs 3) for Dirge, 3 for Chronicles, and I just started watching it again (this time on Youtube to save my DVDs ) for Alpha and Omega so...yeah that's 13 times.

Geez that's embarrassing.

Anyway, the two main pairings that keep screaming out at me are NOT CCxLelouch or KallenxLelouch, they are ShirleyxLelouch and SuzakuxLelouch (I'm not kidding).

Take that for what it's worth.

But enough of that, this is the general discussion thread not the Romance thread so let's move on.
What was my original question again?
Oh yeah.

Why do you think we were never told whether CC's wish was fulfilled?
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Old 2010-09-28, 00:42   Link #7758
morbosfist
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"Even though she is able to tell Lelouch, who assumed the seat of emperor, her decision of wanting to live and die alongside him, Lelouch rejects her. What he chose is Suzaku and C.C."

This is plot summary. It bears little relevance on how he actually felt for her. To "reject" her in this manner is simply to push her away. Doesn't mean he didn't feel anything for her. I don't feel like going much deeper than that, but taking that one line as a solid rejection is clearly taking it out of context.
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Old 2010-09-28, 00:46   Link #7759
GundamFan0083
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
"Even though she is able to tell Lelouch, who assumed the seat of emperor, her decision of wanting to live and die alongside him, Lelouch rejects her. What he chose is Suzaku and C.C."

This is plot summary. It bears little relevance on how he actually felt for her. To "reject" her in this manner is simply to push her away. Doesn't mean he didn't feel anything for her. I don't feel like going much deeper than that, but taking that one line as a solid rejection is clearly taking it out of context.
Nope it doesn't mean he didn't love her.
Which is what I keep trying to tell people about the R2 Guidebook.
It doesn't tell us diddly squat outside of what we see in the anime (for story anyway).
I mean...the pictures are nice.
But the info is generic.

Taniguichi made it very clear that fans were to make up their own conclusions about the pairings and Okouchi confirmed old Lulu died a virgin, so that pretty much seals any further discussion.

Nevertheless, I must ask you morbosfist.
Do you have any idea why we weren't given more info on what CC's wish was?
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Old 2010-09-28, 00:50   Link #7760
morbosfist
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Aside from laziness near the end (they clearly dragged their feet and had to up the pace), I felt that wish was clear enough after Turn 16. They don't spell it out, but it's obvious her wish was for companionship, it's just that Geass twisted that into a superficial thing, and being immortal just jaded her from then on.
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