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Old 2010-10-06, 11:29   Link #7841
Xander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
A thought has crossed my mind reading over this discussion about the ZR and having just finished the 4th issue of Renya of the Dark.

Spoiler for the manga is making things more confusing:
This discussion is probably more suited for the manga thread, but I just checked issue 2 and didn't see anything like that. Unless it's part of a different translation or something along those lines, but there doesn't seem to be a scene where it would fit.

However, the only remotely similar reference I've seen, back in issue 1 of the new Renya manga...

Spoiler for Renya ch1:


At the very least, any further interpretations are far too premature. Nevertheless, back to the previous discussion.

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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
But Suzaku practically knew the Euphie incident was accidental.
Strictly speaking...using Geass on her was accidental, not murdering her.

Lelouch is still responsible for her death and he, of all people, would be the first person to admit it. His reaction never was denial or an excuse. In addition, Suzaku himself was in a different state of mind after the Tokyo catastrophe.

They managed to reach an off-screen understanding but the starting point, as far as we saw, wasn't exactly smooth.

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Regarding the Zero Requiem, it happened because the writers chose to have Lelouch Driven to Suicide, and followed in the footsteps of the aforementioned first attempt at that, the plan to seal himself and his father off from the world.
Yes, I don't believe I've ever stated anything to the contrary. Just introduced or highlighted additional elements.

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Zero Requiem IMO neither glorified nor demonized Lelouch so much as it made him pitiable on a whole new level.
Well, why can't it do all three things at once? It's a matter of opinion and interpretation.
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Old 2010-10-06, 13:19   Link #7842
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Originally Posted by Xander View Post


Strictly speaking, realism and believability were never a huge concern for Code Geass. Whatever else can be said about its execution, I don't believe fiction needs to be realistic.
.
As said, I meant in consequence. Sure its fiction, but, to me, it felt as if it could be a possible and believable paradox to our world. R2 starting hacking that down, and the requiem basically...destroyed that ideal.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that fiction will remain fiction, its just that it shouldn't too off the mark. Especially since this was a 'real world' scenario. (If you discount Geass, the government and imperialism models are quite accurate.)

If this was about robot zombies fighting Pokemon with guns, I wouldn't really care
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Old 2010-10-16, 14:03   Link #7843
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"What of the EU who made everyone equal? Rabble politics by a popularity contest" "And the Chinese Federation who distributed its wealth? A nation of lazy dullards" (Charles zi Britannia during Clovis' state funeral)

I don't know about you guys but that to me defines the Western world today. I don't if Japan is following down that route too but I wouldn't be surprised if they are.

Honestly, I would choose CG world over our own. Not because I like to live in fantasy, but because at the very least I wouldn't be lied to and have my intelligence insulted constantly in the media and by two faced politicians.

The only difference between Britannia and our world is that here the ones with power hide behind ethics and morals, which only apply to us, not them. They are free to rape, plunder, murder, steal and do whatever the hell they want, and it's legal.

We fight wars and shed blood for political and economic gain, but we are told that it is for justice and freedom.
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Old 2010-10-16, 23:40   Link #7844
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^ True.

The most disappointing part in all of that is most people don't even care. Or are too affiliated in their own world to pay any heed.

And, if I had to choose between to worlds, I'd choose CG as well. Just because....it has been proven that you can revolutionize it :P
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Old 2010-10-16, 23:43   Link #7845
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Revolutionized or not, it still remains a Crapsack World. :/
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Old 2010-10-17, 04:04   Link #7846
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Sadly, yes. Well, since the writers live in a crapsack world themselves you can't really blame them xP
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Old 2010-10-17, 04:14   Link #7847
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Well, since the story's finito as of now, there's no way for things to get better.

Best just to imagine what could have been.
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Old 2010-10-17, 11:50   Link #7848
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Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
Honestly, I would choose CG world over our own. Not because I like to live in fantasy, but because at the very least I wouldn't be lied to and have my intelligence insulted constantly in the media and by two faced politicians.
Yes, because the Britannian media is the epitome of honesty. It's not like they'd ever cover up the Black Knight's involvement in getting rid of China despite the countless rumors, or talk about how they really love the cute little Elevens who cooperate, or do just as they are told by the government in general.

Charles might preach Social Darwnism, but he doesn't do much except talk and create the usual "offical stance", and everyone who has to do the dirty work is very much aware that brutal honesty alone won't get Britannia very far. Even Clovis was aware of that, not to mention Schneizel. He was pissed enough at his father to want to take over immediately for a reason.

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We fight wars and shed blood for political and economic gain, but we are told that it is for justice and freedom.
Well, at least in our world we can speak up against this and actually have a chance of achieving something, however small.
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Old 2010-10-17, 17:25   Link #7849
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I'd like to say that this is the best Anime ever, behind Death Note
I wont be watching the 3rd season though D:
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Old 2010-10-17, 17:27   Link #7850
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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
Yes, because the Britannian media is the epitome of honesty. It's not like they'd ever cover up the Black Knight's involvement in getting rid of China despite the countless rumors, or talk about how they really love the cute little Elevens who cooperate, or do just as they are told by the government in general.

Charles might preach Social Darwnism, but he doesn't do much except talk and create the usual "offical stance", and everyone who has to do the dirty work is very much aware that brutal honesty alone won't get Britannia very far. Even Clovis was aware of that, not to mention Schneizel. He was pissed enough at his father to want to take over immediately for a reason.



Well, at least in our world we can speak up against this and actually have a chance of achieving something, however small.
The thing is in Britannia there are no pretenses, there is no such thing as "dirty work". Charles is the Emperor, and his stance is well known. Britannia fights to propagate his ideal, the strong and best fit to rule conquering the weak and prospering in their glory.

Our world is full of lies, even our so called "leaders" are nothing but puppets of their masters, those who fund their campaigns. These people have no nation, or ideology, they just believe in money. Wars are not fought for good or bad reasons, they are fought for the simple fact that they create debt. In the end it doesn't matter who wins or loses, because there will still be an enormous debt to be paid off.

In Britannian society, those people who irresponsibly lend out money would be left out to rot and die like they should, instead of getting bailed out by the governments they control. This whole financial debacle was created by these very same people who control and manipulate things from the shadows. How can people with such wealth lend out money so a guy on a 30k a year salary can buy several 200k+ properties? They have to be deliberately trying to create chaos and instability. They can't be dumb enough to not see the risks.
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Old 2010-10-17, 18:03   Link #7851
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Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
The thing is in Britannia there are no pretenses, there is no such thing as "dirty work". Charles is the Emperor, and his stance is well known. Britannia fights to propagate his ideal, the strong and best fit to rule conquering the weak and prospering in their glory.

Our world is full of lies, even our so called "leaders" are nothing but puppets of their masters, those who fund their campaigns. These people have no nation, or ideology, they just believe in money. Wars are not fought for good or bad reasons, they are fought for the simple fact that they create debt. In the end it doesn't matter who wins or loses, because there will still be an enormous debt to be paid off.

In Britannian society, those people who irresponsibly lend out money would be left out to rot and die like they should, instead of getting bailed out by the governments they control. This whole financial debacle was created by these very same people who control and manipulate things from the shadows. How can people with such wealth lend out money so a guy on a 30k a year salary can buy several 200k+ properties? They have to be deliberately trying to create chaos and instability. They can't be dumb enough to not see the risks.
If you know that so much of our society is built on lies, they can't be very well hidden, can they? While I don't exactly disagree, I think you're greatly exaggerating. Besides which, considering how Right Wing Britannia is, I'm pretty sure the exact same thing you're describing goes on there. Just because it's less under the table doesn't make it better.

Personally, I'll take lies and being patronised to over a fascist regime where only only one race of people are allowed to live decent lives while the rest of the population are discriminated against, oppressed, and killed without a moments thought.

Also, Britannia is very much a fascist empire. You know what fascism is traditionally very fond of? Propaganda and brainwashing. And they actively disprove of rationalism, just so you know.
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Old 2010-10-17, 22:01   Link #7852
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The bigger the lie, the easier it is to conceal because people simply will not believe it.

The puppet masters based everything on the fact that people, the masses, are ignorant and predictable and thus easy to manipulate.
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Old 2010-10-17, 22:11   Link #7853
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Britannia was just as much a joke as the real world. Charles preached survival of the fittest so he'd have an excuse to raid other countries for their Geass ruins. He didn't actually believe a word he said. He didn't care about the world, he just wanted to force a mental connection with everyone to remove all lies in a hissy fit because his stupid brother killed his wife.

Meanwhile of the actual leaders we see in Britannia, only Schnizel and Cornelia are actually good leaders, and possible Euphie (who was naive but might have been competant at least) as well. Oddessus was a nice guy but didn't have a clue about anything ever, and the other two Princesses were spoiled bitches who wasted their money and power for their own amusement and did nothing else.
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Old 2010-10-19, 23:11   Link #7854
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
Britannia was just as much a joke as the real world. Charles preached survival of the fittest so he'd have an excuse to raid other countries for their Geass ruins. He didn't actually believe a word he said. He didn't care about the world, he just wanted to force a mental connection with everyone to remove all lies in a hissy fit because his stupid brother killed his wife.

Meanwhile of the actual leaders we see in Britannia, only Schnizel and Cornelia are actually good leaders, and possible Euphie (who was naive but might have been competant at least) as well. Oddessus was a nice guy but didn't have a clue about anything ever, and the other two Princesses were spoiled bitches who wasted their money and power for their own amusement and did nothing else.
Besides... Charles did nothing during the wars... Just sat their and planned what to do about his Geass ruin obsession..

I do agree with Cornelia and Schnizel being good leads, Euphie was an excellent motivating leader in a way, if all things went well, it probably could have worked out with what she was planning to do.
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Old 2010-10-19, 23:26   Link #7855
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Except Cornelia and Schneizel would still front an unfavorable government.
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Old 2010-10-20, 02:29   Link #7856
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Yes but at least they'd be capable favorable government or not. The other princes and princesses were completely useless in every way and wouldn't have gotten anywhere were it not for their noble born status.

Wait I forgot Clovis. He was also shown to be at least somewhat capable.

The point I'm trying to make is that despite their survival of the fittest ramblings and all that Britannia was shown to have incompetant people in high positions they didn't deserve screwing things up much like the real world. Because said Emperor was all talk and just let his people amuse themselves until he linked them to the Ragnarok connection.
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Old 2010-10-20, 17:32   Link #7857
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Originally Posted by Hooves View Post
Besides... Charles did nothing during the wars... Just sat their and planned what to do about his Geass ruin obsession..

I do agree with Cornelia and Schnizel being good leads, Euphie was an excellent motivating leader in a way, if all things went well, it probably could have worked out with what she was planning to do.
It's such ashame that Cornelia and Lelouch never had the chance to work together. I believe that had she had known what Lelouch would become before being sent to Japan, she might have convinced the Emperor to place Lelouch and Nunnally into her custody. All we got was just a two brief moments between them that was never resolved. She only knows that Geass turned her half brother into a monster who killed Clovis and Euphemia.
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Old 2010-10-22, 11:15   Link #7858
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Originally Posted by darthfury78 View Post
It's such ashame that Cornelia and Lelouch never had the chance to work together. I believe that had she had known what Lelouch would become before being sent to Japan, she might have convinced the Emperor to place Lelouch and Nunnally into her custody. All we got was just a two brief moments between them that was never resolved. She only knows that Geass turned her half brother into a monster who killed Clovis and Euphemia.
You think Cornellia who was still rather young at the time too would have been able to protect the two from V.V.?
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Old 2010-10-22, 17:05   Link #7859
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Originally Posted by darthfury78 View Post
It's such ashame that Cornelia and Lelouch never had the chance to work together. I believe that had she had known what Lelouch would become before being sent to Japan, she might have convinced the Emperor to place Lelouch and Nunnally into her custody. All we got was just a two brief moments between them that was never resolved. She only knows that Geass turned her half brother into a monster who killed Clovis and Euphemia.
I agree with eaglei3, even if Cornelia knew about the incident, it would be impossible to protect Lelouch and Nunnally from V.V
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Old 2010-10-23, 04:26   Link #7860
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You think Cornellia who was still rather young at the time too would have been able to protect the two from V.V.?
What threat would a 10 year old Lelouch have over V.V. ? The fact that he killed Marianne out of jealousy led to his undoing when C.C. formed a contract with Lelouch. In turn, Lelouch turned against Charles and Marianne immoral plans with regards to the Ragonook. What sort of protection is it to send Lelouch to Japan by Charles decree, only to have Lelouch socially damaged to the extent that he wanted to destroy his father's plans. It might have been better for Charles to geass Lelouch as well in the same manner as Nunnally from knowing the truth. Perhaps Charles wanted to show Lelouch the pain and suffering that he and V.V. went through as children.
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