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Old 2008-02-23, 19:51   Link #141
Mirrinus
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You know, I like that explanation too. I find it amusing whenever a show adds a meta element like that.
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Old 2008-02-23, 22:55   Link #142
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I like this explanation better than most reincarnation theories. I think it shows that in the future, the curse would be broken, and that human beings will accept the winged beings and learn from their inherited wisdom of the memories of earth, and thus know about the past. This would also coincide nicely with the "right" intepretation of that last spoken sentence. The children seem to be just one generation after Misuzu, so I guess that implies Misuzu has broken the curse for the next generation.

In a literary sense, the knowledge of the children of the events that lie ahead for Misuzu and Yukito also reflects the viewpoint of us, the viewers, at the end of the series.
Great insight All things considered, that does make a lot of sense

I couldn't figure why the "us" in that article was interpreted as being from Key's perspective; if it's from OUR perspective then that opens it up to the above. I like it!
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Old 2008-02-24, 21:56   Link #143
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I'm with you guys. It is nice to see it from our perspective.
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Old 2008-02-29, 01:46   Link #144
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"The author declared that those two kids were not the reincarnation of any of the characters and he doesn't want people think of air like that."
Then why do they show Kanna and Ryuuya holding hands (the last scene in the Summer Specials ED) in exactly the same way as the boy and girl at the end of the series ED?

Damn, talk about having the rug pulled out from under your feet. I just finished a second viewing of Air and I was really getting into all the discussion of possibilities about the boy and girl, then "thud!"

WTF!!!

Quote:
It's like themselves (KEY) are watching the story.
I think that sucks. I think that's a lame perspective.

NOT ONE PERSON INTERPRETED IT THAT WAY! Not even close... as best as I can remember from what I just read. The almighty KyoAni threw something in there that was completely out of synch with the way the events unfold, and now they blame it on poor wording of the lines from the boy? If that's the case they may as well have ended the story with Sora soaring into the sky and left it hanging there.

Just exactly who is this "author?"

Don't think of Air that way.... Pffft... too bad.... too late.

Just venting, btw... after spending an hour reading, looking for some glorious insight... only to have that come along and blow chunks all over the place. Bah!

Love the series! Love Kanon! Love Kyoto Animation, too! Their work is brilliant and I'll always keep going back for more "Air" in the years to come.
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Old 2008-02-29, 02:29   Link #145
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I find it easier (and makes more sense) to just go with what I feel the ending portrayed, even though questions remain when doing so. As quoted elsewhere (can't find it here), it makes more sense to "interpret intuitively rather than analytically". I like that better

In trying to "justify" the ending with regard to the un-named "author's" statement as quoted in that article, it feels a lot less true.

When I read:

Quote:
Quote:
It's like themselves (KEY) are watching the story.
I felt exactly like:

Quote:
I think that sucks. I think that's a lame perspective.
...and feel that the official "explanation" still rings false.

Incidentally, I think that the "Key" in parethesis was mistranslated and should mean "the viewer"; that we are watching the story. Still rings false to me, but in giving the benefit of the doubt to Key (for a moment), the "no-reincarnation" theory above is just to fit into that Key-note. I'm not comfortable with it, but it makes sense when trying to fit them together.

THEN we can take the benefit of the doubt back, shrug it off, and enjoy our own interpretations

I wish that the "author" hadn't gotten so miffed about it though, jeez Don't they need to get something together with which to follow Clannad?
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Old 2008-02-29, 03:04   Link #146
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Originally Posted by Ahasuerus View Post
...and feel that the official "explanation" still rings false.
I like unusual things. I'm all for unconventional points of view.

But, I just don't get why... oh, WHY... they would use a logo, the very thing that represents the entire series, of a girl that can so easily be connected to the main character in the story and then say she's just an abstract representation of the creators/viewers point of view?

I mean, the whole time... seeing that logo... I wonder, "Who's that girl?" "Who's she holding hands with?" "Why is she cropped so the only part of the boy you see is his hand?" "What's her significance?"

And then to find all the insightful discussion and interesting interpretations here, only to hear from this "author" that she's some "outsider viewpoint."

Baffling....
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Old 2008-03-08, 10:11   Link #147
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About Yukito again...
He "died" in the TV series, but in the movie he was still alive, after Misuzu died TT_TT
Needed to say that XD
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Old 2008-03-10, 19:54   Link #148
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Is there a possibility of a 2nd Season, or no? I hope so, this was such a good anime T_T
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Old 2008-03-11, 16:07   Link #149
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I don't think so, unless Key decides for whatever reason to make a non-canon sequel like they did with Tomoyo After. Even then, it's kind of doubtful since AIR isn't one of those series with a "life goes on" kind of ending, like Kanon is.
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Old 2008-03-11, 17:51   Link #150
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I just rewatched episode 12 again just for a refresher. Here's why the reincarnation theory doesn't work: This last scene is simply a re-telling of that earlier episode, where Misuzu and Yukito are on the seawall watching these same children playing on the beach before they walk off-screen.

This latter scene is kind of like a reverse image, only using the children's points-of-view. On the seawall is our original Misuzu and Yukito, so these children can't very well be reincarnated entities of them. The boy does have some precognitive abilty, though, as he knows (and as we know) that the pair on the seawall have "tough times ahead."

So, perhaps using them as a logo, it does signify that with the succeeding generation, therein lies the hope (and the proof?) that the curse has (or will be) broken...

Just more afterthoughts
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Old 2008-03-12, 10:44   Link #151
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Originally Posted by Ahasuerus View Post
So, perhaps using them as a logo, it does signify that with the succeeding generation, therein lies the hope (and the proof?) that the curse has (or will be) broken...

Just more afterthoughts
That's as good of a take as any. It wouldn't be the first time I assumed something about an anime only to realize I was way off the mark.

I still think the comments of the kids are cryptic. The boy is talking about memories after that montage of images depicting the memories of stars... as told by someone similar to, if not just like, Yukito's mother. What is it he just remembered if not the things that were being shown previously and therefore associated with Yukito's memories?

I don't see anywhere that traditional ideas of reincarnation are used in the story. Yukito comes from a line of magic users and is thus subject to unusual experiences. How is it that Sora and Yukito can exist at the same time? Is Sora really Yukito, or is it just some of Yukito's memories that transfer to him?

I don't necessarily see Yukito as a reincarnation of Ryuuya. He is a descendant carrying out Ryuuya's will. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread the idea that Misuzu is not a reincarnation of Kanna, but just an unfortunate girl who happens to get caught up in Kanna's cycle... a vessel that becomes the next attempt of a winged being's spirit to find a place to exist. That makes as much sense to me as anything else.

Meh... I'm getting confused in trying to think back on what I've read and watched and tie it together, right now. I'll have to watch it again at a later time and try to re-digest it from a new perspective.

As far as the kids... I'm left with the notion, for now, that they are a representation of themes and ideas from the story... hence the logo of the girl. Even though it makes no sense at all.

Oh, well.... file parts of this one into the "WTF is going on here?" category.

I just know that I love all of the girls and I cry when I watch their stories. Stories about memories... which is really what life boils down to, I suppose. What are we without our memories, good and bad?
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Old 2008-03-12, 14:59   Link #152
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It wouldn't be the first time I assumed something about an anime only to realize I was way off the mark.
Ditto LOL I owe a lot to AnimeSuki's forums for illumination Even so, for some series things still aren't made absolutely clear, but I guess some anime is meant to be that way

Quote:
The boy is talking about memories after that montage of images depicting the memories of stars... as told by someone similar to, if not just like, Yukito's mother.
I was reminded of the very first scene in Air, and among the last, of those voice-over narrations, that this was in fact happening through these children, that the "Story" was, and is being, handed down parent to child over generations

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How is it that Sora and Yukito can exist at the same time? Is Sora really Yukito, or is it just some of Yukito's memories that transfer to him?
I had major problems with this as well, and had to chalk it up as just being a device of the story that I just needed to accept. One theory is that Yukito died offscreen due to the curse where Kanna's loved ones perished as well, but that's pretty unsatisfying to me; that ought to be something they'd have showed or explained.

Quote:
I don't necessarily see Yukito as a reincarnation of Ryuuya. He is a descendant carrying out Ryuuya's will. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread the idea that Misuzu is not a reincarnation of Kanna, but just an unfortunate girl who happens to get caught up in Kanna's cycle... a vessel that becomes the next attempt of a winged being's spirit to find a place to exist. That makes as much sense to me as anything else.
These two points do make sense; since I believe in reincarnation I might be bolstering my "Yukito IS Ryuuya" theory by attributing it to that where it may not be accurate with regard to the story. But then, with Misuzu/Kanna... Kanna still exists somewhere above the skies, while on Earth Misuzu suffers Lady K's curse(s), so again the problem arises where the same "person" seems to co-exist with themselves

Quote:
I'm getting confused in trying to think back on what I've read and watched and tie it together, right now. I'll have to watch it again at a later time and try to re-digest it from a new perspective.
I think that the more we think about it the more thinking is required LOL Perhaps it is better to "interpret intuitively" after all By the way, for another perspective, try Air the Movie, which does a nice job of it. The cover showing Misuzu with wings seems a dead giveaway It's not as bad as some make it out to be; it just pales in the magnificence of Air TV.

Quote:
Stories about memories... which is really what life boils down to, I suppose. What are we without our memories, good and bad?
That seems to be key (no pun intended) to the Key/KyoAni "trilogy" of Air, Kanon, and to a lesser extent (so far) of Clannad. Since memories, as are dreams, are so intangible, maybe it is this that makes these series so magical, and why they resonate so strongly with those that Feel...

Just another theory, I guess
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Old 2008-03-13, 10:34   Link #153
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There was another thing that i notice....that kinda weakens the "official explanation" upon the boy and the girl.
there was someone who said "why did the logo only showing the girl and a cropped boy?"...then i noticed the logo doesn't only consist of the girl and the boy, but with a bird hanging above the letter "I". I am thinking that the logo is actually reflecting upon the "AIR arc", in which that sora was with misuzu and we never see yukito's face thus making the boy cropped away from the logo except his hand.

well these are just some of my thoughts~
ah~im all confused now- -... by the way i just finished rewatching AIR for the 3rd time^^ still awesome as the first time seeing it~
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Old 2008-03-16, 00:00   Link #154
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There's just one point that I want to make here. This is KyoAni's adaptation, and the "misrepresentation" of the last lines of the series might just be KyoAni's own take at Air, so whatever Key says, it applies for the visual novel all right, but not for the series. I think that it's still an open ending, and we're free to interpret it in any way we choose.

Basically what I'm saying is because they messed up those lines, we don't have to interpret them as what wasn't there to begin with.

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Old 2008-03-18, 06:22   Link #155
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Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
There's just one point that I want to make here. This is KyoAni's adaptation, and the "misrepresentation" of the last lines of the series might just be KyoAni's own take at Air, so whatever Key says, it applies for the visual novel all right, but not for the series. I think that it's still an open ending, and we're free to interpret it in any way we choose.

Basically what I'm saying is because they messed up those lines, we don't have to interpret them as what wasn't there to begin with.
Thank you!

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...then i noticed the logo doesn't only consist of the girl and the boy, but with a bird hanging above the letter "I".
Not to discount your obversation, but I think that's more of an artistic embellishment on the logo than something symbolic. The bird is more like a dot on the "i"... Like here:





And it looks more like a seagull than a crow, to me. Plus, the whole "wings and feathers" thing is represented by birds in general.
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Old 2008-03-25, 13:54   Link #156
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Originally Posted by Ahasuerus View Post
I had major problems with this as well, and had to chalk it up as just being a device of the story that I just needed to accept. One theory is that Yukito died offscreen due to the curse where Kanna's loved ones perished as well, but that's pretty unsatisfying to me; that ought to be something they'd have showed or explained.

These two points do make sense; since I believe in reincarnation I might be bolstering my "Yukito IS Ryuuya" theory by attributing it to that where it may not be accurate with regard to the story. But then, with Misuzu/Kanna... Kanna still exists somewhere above the skies, while on Earth Misuzu suffers Lady K's curse(s), so again the problem arises where the same "person" seems to co-exist with themselves
From my viewing, I believe part of the issue that viewers, especially Westerners, have with the reincarnation issue that seems to come up in AIR is because of our misconceptions about reincarnation.

The basic issue is we often mistake the Buddhist teachings of reincarnation to mean the same conscious personality of a person we know once existed in a previous time in a different body, under a different name. HOWEVER, the teachings of the Buddha directly reject this. The concept of anātman contradicts this in that the elements that compose the body and mind are ever-changing and that no immutable self lies within us. The easiest way to put it is how Wikipedia states it:

"The consciousness arising in the new person is neither identical to, nor different from, the old consciousness, but forms part of a causal continuum or stream with it."

So, despite how Misuzu and Yukito seem completely different from Kanna and Ryuuga because their personalities differ so greatly (Kanna vs. Misuzu really highlights this), they can be the reincarnation of the skandhas, or aggregates, that made up those individuals and have been changed by each subsequent rebirth. In this interpretation, because skandhas continue to exist beyond the body, Kanna and Ryuuga would live on and be reborn subsequently, but these aggregates that once formed them will be changed in the person they now reside in resulting in a different personality. This also explains why Sora can be a reincarnation of Yukito despite living in the same time period.

That probably made no sense, but Buddhism is pretty dense in its theology, so I have a hard time verbalizing it . If someone can do better, please do.
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Old 2008-03-25, 14:45   Link #157
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The basic issue is we often mistake the Buddhist teachings of reincarnation to mean the same conscious personality of a person we know once existed in a previous time in a different body, under a different name.
Speaking for myself, I wasn't referring to the Buddhist concept of reincarnation, but rather the concept of the immortality of the soul and its neccesary rebirths throughout time in order to cleanse itself of the bad karma accumulated in previous lives, eventually purifying itself until no further incarnations are neccesary. Personalities can always be different, but the soul remains the same; there is only one, which is the "I am" of the individual.

To explain further would be to delve deeper into theosophy and metaphysics, so I'll leave it at that
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Old 2008-03-25, 15:53   Link #158
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Originally Posted by Ahasuerus View Post
Speaking for myself, I wasn't referring to the Buddhist concept of reincarnation, but rather the concept of the immortality of the soul and its neccesary rebirths throughout time in order to cleanse itself of the bad karma accumulated in previous lives, eventually purifying itself until no further incarnations are neccesary. Personalities can always be different, but the soul remains the same; there is only one, which is the "I am" of the individual.

To explain further would be to delve deeper into theosophy and metaphysics, so I'll leave it at that
Karma, huh? Well, that still mostly aligns with the basic concept I was trying to convey about Reincarnation 1 != Reincarnation 2. I tried going from the Buddhist approach since they do make several mentions to monks during the Summer Arc (who are mostly likely Buddhist) and during the Summer Special 2 is when Kanna mentions a "dream" of having her mother beside her in some distant land. Kanna's description mostly fits the Buddhist interpretation in how she describes she was different in shape and form and questioning if it really was her or not.
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Old 2008-03-25, 16:16   Link #159
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^ I agree that it makes more sense to approach it from the Buddhist perspective, but to be honest I don't know much about that religion though I've studied other aspects of reincarnation for many years (and in fact incorporated it in my own story). But I've found that Air has diverse elements to it (like the cross pendants on the uniforms) so probably have superimposed my own ideas onto it where it actually is not meant to support any of them. Since it's essentially a fantasy, I let my imagination go with it
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Old 2008-05-04, 07:05   Link #160
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Originally Posted by Thinkersblock07 View Post
It says here that the little kids shown at the end of Air aren't Yukito's or Misuzu's reincarnations.



So I suppose all theories of Yukito and Misuzu being reincarnated are false. Maybe only Sora and Haruko know Misuzu's and Yukito's tale and they'll pass it on so other people could know...

I thought they were. Then who were thouse little kids anyway.

And I think the ending was just too plan sad. I mean I almost cried whne Misuzu died and all of those scenes when she was crying and stuff.
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