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Old 2006-09-07, 16:21   Link #21
Obi-Wan
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Change your avatars. Fucking clones.
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Old 2006-09-07, 17:13   Link #22
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Even if they don't have any right now. That wouldn't be the case later if the story permits them. After all, they are busy bodies. I think they mass produce suits faster than Zaft or EA could.

Quote:
Gilbert:: I have heard that in your "Austrell Colony", you've managed to construct a special society. If I remember correctly, it is composed of members whose genes were manipulated in accordance with requirements of needed occupations. Am I mistaken?

Agnes:: Insufficient personnel! A harsh environment! Mars has no need for worthless humans!
Agnes:: Lets mass produce mobile suits. We can do it in a jiff.. We are efficient after all.
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Old 2006-09-07, 17:29   Link #23
anselfir
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The scale in SEED is pretty out of balance. We see centralized and militarized groups with enough resources to construct gigantic superweapons yet for each battle we see spaceships/mechas in hundreds rather than thousands. Sure the super godly gundams can kill 50 grunts, but for a fricking planet to not have thousands of these things at once is pretty unrealistic. The force invading JOSH-A is supposed to be the bulk of ZAFT, but how many is that, at most a few thousand by the looks of it.

Given the lack of presentation for realistic power balance, (lazy animators ) the sense of power balance then is created elsewhere, away from what is seen on the screen. Really, if we were to gauge the manufacturing capabilities of the two sides, there are quite a number of sources. For Mars to obtain this balance given the relative lack of population, they'd have to either get insane productivity, much higher tech, or some grand project that would showcase their capabilities. But I'm not buying how a young colony can field enough stuff to compete with earth or PLANT, let alone pose serious threat. But there is still that space whale, and for what it is worth there might be martians.
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Last edited by anselfir; 2006-09-07 at 18:18.
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Old 2006-09-07, 17:32   Link #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tritoch
Even if they don't have any right now. That wouldn't be the case later if the story permits them. After all, they are busy bodies. I think they mass produce suits faster than Zaft or EA could.
Given the fact that:

A). There is no conflict there.
B). They lack the technology to do so.
C). They are a peaceful society that is attempting to STOP the war that is taking place.

So, before you start dreaming up all these wonderful ideas of yours, try looking at the facts first. It doesn't say anywhere that they are busy bodies.

Now, if you'd all please change your avatars to something else, otherwise a bunch of us will start reporting you for idiocy.

Edit::

To clarify some missed points::

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak
I wonder if that is suggesting Agnes was the infamous Chairman's mentor?
Agnes would have to be 9 at the time. I think not.

Quote:
And a society that may be far more militant than Chairman-era PLANT? Quite interesting, lets up the ante (in gene manipulation), shall we (allow me to proudly introduce, the CE era's TITANS!)?
Militant... no.

Quote:
Of course, if PLANT humans are coordinators, than I wonder what Martians are designated as.
Naturals and Coordinators. Mars = Neutral.

Quote:
- Tak (And somehow I have a feeling that FATkuda's ambitions in regards to his CE universe won't end here. Welcome to a brand new era of Gundam kiddies...)
Fukuda doesn't touch Astray.
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「では、人間は、何故、戦うのか?
戦うことに存在意義があるのかもしれない。
戦っている人間には充実感がある。
そして、戦っている人間が汚れて見えないのも事実だ」

So why do people fight, anyway?
Perhaps the meaning of existence lies within their will to fight.
People feel a sense of accomplishment through battle.
And itís also a fact that the ones actually fighting are never perceived as being tainted.

Last edited by Deacon Blues; 2006-09-07 at 18:09.
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Old 2006-09-07, 19:18   Link #25
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon Blues
Agnes would have to be 9 at the time. I think not.
Mentor on the subject matter, ie. the Destiny plan. Nothing more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon Blues
Militant... no.
A strict society with a rigid social system has a significant possibility of going militant should it feel that it is threatened. Or it can easily be manipulated to become so. History has provided us with many examples in that regard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon Blues
Naturals and Coordinators. Mars = Neutral.
I was inquiring about a special designation for Martians. If humans are Naturals, and genetically modified humans are Coordinators, what are Martians? Being even more genetically altered than their Coordinator counterparts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon Blues
Fukuda doesn't touch Astray.
Didn't stop him from inserting Astray characters in cameo roles. We don't know what FATkuda might do in the near future.

Once again, we don't know anything. It was implied in SEED that ORB was a neutral, peaceful and non-militant country, except we later knew it not to be so.

Mars was depicted in a similar manner, but we don't know all of its secrets. The conflict may not reach there, but I would find it difficult if they wouldn't at least be on the defensive. Once again, nobody knows anything. If anybody want to create another CE franchise with Martians as enemies, they very well can do just that (and we all know CE is intended to become the 21st century's UC, so we will just wait and see).

- Tak (At that, I leave everything to the writers...)
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Old 2006-09-07, 19:47   Link #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak
A strict society with a rigid social system has a significant possibility of going militant should it feel that it is threatened. Or it can easily be manipulated to become so. History has provided us with many examples in that regard.
Except we don't know whether their social structure is rigid or not. Mars wishes to solve the problem, so therefore they have no desire to take up arms.

Quote:
I was inquiring about a special designation for Martians. If humans are Naturals, and genetically modified humans are Coordinators, what are Martians? Being even more genetically altered than their Coordinator counterparts.
To quoteth from the site that I am building for an 'unofficial Delta Astray page':

Quote:
WHAT ARE "MARTIANS"?
In the Cosmic Era world where we live, they discovered a giant space whale and from that point on, people began to have a passion towards space. Everyone in the DSSD are representatives of that. Every Martian was apart of a space venture and are now people who permanently stayed on Mars from the "Mars Immigration Plan."

ARE ALL MARTIANS COORDINATORS?
The three that arrived on Earth are all coordinators. On Mars, each colony had groups. Agnes' colony, the Australis (the name of Southern hemisphere of Mars), where everyone who lives there seems to be coordinators. There might be Naturals on other colonies, but I don't know. Maybe there could are coordinators (who are accustomed to Mars) that are like Squids. If that's true, I want to see them.
Quote:
Didn't stop him from inserting Astray characters in cameo roles. We don't know what FATkuda might do in the near future.
Uh... what? No Astray characters appeared in the series.

Quote:
Mars was depicted in a similar manner, but we don't know all of its secrets. The conflict may not reach there, but I would find it difficult if they wouldn't at least be on the defensive. Once again, nobody knows anything. If anybody want to create another CE franchise with Martians as enemies, they very well can do just that (and we all know CE is intended to become the 21st century's UC, so we will just wait and see).
There's really no reason to quarrel with Mars, really. Why? Simple:

Quote:
WHAT ABOUT INTERACTIONS BETWEEN EARTH AND MARS?
Once per year, there is a scheduled space ship going back and forth. Besides that, there are also ships going by themselves (Lowe's Re HOME, for example). They transport the rare metal from Mars, and as an exchange, they bring foods that can't be produced at Mars. Although Mars can produce their own food, it's not necessary to import. However, they probably want to eat food that is exclusive to earth.

WHAT ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGICAL STRENGTH OF MARS?
The immigration to Mars is been aided by various colonies, and DSSD acting as the leader. Therefore, their technical strength is extremely high. Like previously said, there is an exchange once per year, the newest techs are also brought over. But since Mars don't have large scale wars, Mobile Suits were not produced. However, it was possible to develop the Delta Astray with assistance from Lowe, I believe the ability to make them existed from the beginning. Wings of Light (Volture Lumiere) isn't a decoration!

THE MARTIANS MET WITH THE ALLIANCE AFTER INTERVIEWING PLANT. SINCE THE TWO ARE ENEMIES, WHICH IS AN ALLY OF MARS?
The Martians are "neutral individuals" who treat everyone equally well. With Mars being the first location for space development, other than PLANT and the Alliance, there were only Orb and a few other nations to contribute workforce and resources. Because of this, the representatives of Mars have the right to meet with any nation.
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「では、人間は、何故、戦うのか?
戦うことに存在意義があるのかもしれない。
戦っている人間には充実感がある。
そして、戦っている人間が汚れて見えないのも事実だ」

So why do people fight, anyway?
Perhaps the meaning of existence lies within their will to fight.
People feel a sense of accomplishment through battle.
And itís also a fact that the ones actually fighting are never perceived as being tainted.
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Old 2006-09-07, 19:53   Link #27
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon Blues
Uh... what? No Astray characters appeared in the series.
Shiho Hahnenfuss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon Blues
There's really no reason to quarrel with Mars, really. Why? Simple:
You are missing the point. I never implied that others will bring quarrel to Mars. However, as I have stated earlier, Martians may just be ambitious individuals who might bring quarrels to others. We have established that Mars is especially harsh. Therefore, to acquire excess materials by other alternatives, particularly a militant one, does not seem all that far-fetched at all.

- Tak
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Old 2006-09-07, 20:02   Link #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak
Shiho Hahnenfuss.

- Tak
Shiho was originally an anime creation. She was supposed to be played by Nami, but since she turned down the role, she was reduced to being a MSV character instead.

Oh, and don't mention Shiho around Deacky.
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Old 2006-09-07, 20:11   Link #29
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer
Shiho was originally an anime creation. She was supposed to be played by Nami, but since she turned down the role, she was reduced to being a MSV character instead.
Yes she was, but that does not change the fact that she is now primarily a MSV character who appeared in both SEED and DESTINY. She however, does have a voice actress behind her now, so its all fine and dandy.

Besides, its a good thing Nami turned down the role. Otherwise, we'd have a pretty creatively killed Shiho, and a Yzak with absolutely no chance in the future for a girlfriend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer
Oh, and don't mention Shiho around Deacky.
I dunno, I'd be more careful not to mention his ex-girlfriend (and vise versa)

- Tak
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Old 2006-09-08, 01:15   Link #30
Renegade334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak
Shiho Hahnenfuss.
It's the other way around - it's because she appeared in the anime that whoever wrote Astray decided to pick her (and a few others like DaCosta, Malchio, Waltfeld, Isaac Mau and Julie) and use her for Astray, which doesn't seem to have any incidence at all on the main tv shows unless it's for references like Actaeon Industries and whatnot. Otherwise he seems to favor MSV suits...which are also used by the Astray mangakas.

Fukuda doesn't seem to give a damn about Astray since basically those stories are made after his and are basically there to tie loose ends abandoned by the anime itself, not to create links for possible sequels. So basically Fukuda's series can exist without the sidestories.
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Last edited by Renegade334; 2006-09-08 at 01:32.
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Old 2006-09-08, 01:28   Link #31
Obi-Wan
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Shiho Sucks ©2002-2006 Obi-Wan
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Old 2006-09-08, 01:53   Link #32
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade334
It's the other way around - it's because she appeared in the anime that whoever wrote Astray decided to pick her (and a few others like DaCosta, Malchio, Waltfeld, Isaac Mau and Julie) and use her for Astray, which doesn't seem to have any incidence at all on the main tv shows unless it's for references like Actaeon Industries and whatnot. Otherwise he seems to favor MSV suits...which are also used by the Astray mangakas.
*Shrug* Does not change the fact that Shiho is primarily a MSV character. It also does not change the fact that, unlike most of her counterparts, she appeared in both SEED and DESTINY, and obviously the only one still alive. One thing happened to every character who had the luck of being transferred to MSV from the anime, they all died.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-Wan
Shiho Sucks ©2002-2006 Obi-Wan
Yes yes, we all know how you feel about poor Shiho. You need not repeat yourself, or even going as far as to drop me a private msg regarding the subject matter. Yeesh, give it a rest, will ya?

- Tak
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Old 2006-09-08, 01:55   Link #33
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This is making me skeptical on how I'll view Delta Astray once the Chinese tankoubons are released here. I for one don't like the idea that Dullindal borrowed his vision of humanity's future and a his Brave New Worldish world from some crack-pot policy implemented by Martians on thier red soil for efficiency and maximized output. If this is how Astray plans to cover up the vaguely explained Destiny Plan, the TV series's "We do not live for the sake of the world, but where we live, that is the world" and the random talks sound better than this.

And stop this whole Shiho talk. Shiho is irellevant to the whole issue here.
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Old 2006-09-08, 02:12   Link #34
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale
This is making me skeptical on how I'll view Delta Astray once the Chinese tankoubons are released here. I for one don't like the idea that Dullindal borrowed his vision of humanity's future and a his Brave New Worldish world from some crack-pot policy implemented by Martians on thier red soil for efficiency and maximized output. If this is how Astray plans to cover up the vaguely explained Destiny Plan, the TV series's "We do not live for the sake of the world, but where we live, that is the world" and the random talks sound better than this.
I agree.

MSV, as far as I am concerned, is an attempt to fulfill plotholes, except in this case, its creating more holes than fills. I thought Dully was deeper than this, but if it is implied that he had his lesson from a 9 year old... well, heh, talk about a shattered image...

- Tak
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Old 2006-09-08, 02:54   Link #35
grandmaster192
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Who the fuck is Shiho?
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Old 2006-09-08, 03:40   Link #36
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Originally Posted by grandmaster192
Who the fuck is Shiho?

She is a ZAFT red suit
http://images.gundams.net/displayima...bum=36&pos=554
the girl behind Lacus in the red suit
she was part of Yzak's squad in both Gundam Seed and Gundam Seed Destiny
that's all I know of her
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Old 2006-09-08, 05:04   Link #37
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After reading Deacon Blues post I thought of something. We all know that there is SEED movie planned. Maybe the movie will be Mars vs Earth. Ok I know that they don't have mobile suits now or any military power (Mars), but after thinking about it maybe Agnes came to Earth , because he knew that Mars is starting preparations for war so he came in order to stop the war between Zaft and Earth Alliance from happening to not weaken Earth,Zaft military power so they would be prepared for upcoming one?

Either way thanks for the info Deacon.
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Old 2006-09-08, 07:08   Link #38
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Hmm interesting, you have a slim chance of being right. Perhaps the martian's are examing the earth to see how much damage was done between the two wars. perhaps they want to return to earth. I know they aren't jupitor, but jupitor from UC always wanted to get control or return to earth.
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Old 2006-09-08, 09:32   Link #39
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasn
After reading Deacon Blues post I thought of something. We all know that there is SEED movie planned. Maybe the movie will be Mars vs Earth. Ok I know that they don't have mobile suits now or any military power (Mars), but after thinking about it maybe Agnes came to Earth , because he knew that Mars is starting preparations for war so he came in order to stop the war between Zaft and Earth Alliance from happening to not weaken Earth,Zaft military power so they would be prepared for upcoming one?
When you think about it, in post-Destiny CE, you have to wonder who or what is left to actually fight a war between PLANT and Earth?

Now, if they made such a big deal off Mars, obviously because it mattered somewhat. We know CE is trying to become the 21st century's UC, and if they want to make Mars the Jupitor of CE, it is entirely a possible affair. After all, like Jupitor back in the day, we knew almost nothing of it until it came smashing everyone right out of the blue.

I can just imagine what the next franchise of CE might look like, pfft~

- Tak
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Old 2006-09-08, 10:02   Link #40
Nightengale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak
I can just imagine what the next franchise of CE might look like, pfft~
What? Mars secretly training state-of-the-art MS pilots combining coordinatorism and extendism while covertly constructing Gundams with anti-matter engines and black-hole cannons? XP

In all seriousness, before getting ahead of ourselves with the establishment of Mars as a possible threat, (( not saying that it's impossible, why give it super l33t tech and superior beings but no weapons? )), I've got to wonder how the universal establishment of C.E makes use of this Mars plotline. Fukuda's clearly not a big player in the establishment of Mars, but Astray seems to be the only deal going making Mars look like a genuine faction with it's own advantages and disadvantages. First, it was just a colonial establishment outside PLANT and Earth. Then it suddenly became a technology hub, where it's technology, while not being used for weapons, piss on everything Earth and PLANT have, and now it suddenly has a competitive social society where only the best humans thrive?
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