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Old 2006-09-08, 10:11   Link #41
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale
Fukuda's clearly not a big player in the establishment of Mars, but Astray seems to be the only deal going making Mars look like a genuine faction with it's own advantages and disadvantages. First, it was just a colonial establishment outside PLANT and Earth. Then it suddenly became a technology hub, where it's technology, while not being used for weapons, piss on everything Earth and PLANT have, and now it suddenly has a competitive social society where only the best humans thrive?
You and I both acknowledge the fact that the CE universe has some serious flaw in its writing (and that is an understatement, really). However, Astray may just give us enough clues as to how Mars will evolve later...

Superior technology? Check.

Secret labs? Check.

Harsh environment where people have little to lose? Check

Ultimate humies? Check.

Superior Complex? A big fat check!

Ladies and gents, what we have here is the perfect recipe for villian-dom.

You really have to wonder why Mars suddenly evolved to include all of the aforementioned 'categories'. There is a great possibility that they want to make Mars a major player later in the CE franchise. Of course, at this point, anything is just guesswork.

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Old 2006-09-08, 10:36   Link #42
Renegade334
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The problem is that so far Bandai/Fukuda has lent no ear or eye to Astray except for the few references I've written in my earlier post - so whatever happens in Delta Astray might not necessarily have a visible impact on whatever next series Bandai might be cooking up right now. Throughout SEED and Destiny (I'm talking anime here, not manga) Mars has benefitted from no attention from our part and the only colonies we've seen so far are only Copernicus and Heliopolis - both of which remain in Earth's immediate surroundings - and only George Glenn's trip to Jupiter was, IIRC, accounted as a trip beyond Earth's (and the Moon) perimeter. No attention so far has been given to research colonies based on Mars and whatnot. For all we might care, Mars' cities might have just been mech-fans' daydreams or a passing thought. And we all know that Fukuda has no damn to give about Astray - Astray is just there to patch things in the CE universe, not to influence his stories. It's a faint background layer, the foreground being SEED and GSD. Not all CE fans would bother buying the mangas so I guess the anime would be the first basis for a sequel, not the manga sidestories.

To sum it up, having a faction/country/planet/organization suddenly appearing out of nowhere and featuring enough strength to take on both ZAFT and EA is highly unlikely IMO. If the staff wanted to make it credible, they'd have made a smooth transition to a hypothetical Mars vs. Earth war and laid up clues and tidbits in the anime about Mars becoming a major power. Otherwise everyone'll go 'where did those guys come from? Another galaxy? wtf.'

I doubt we'll see Mars suddenly springing up, out of nowhere, as the next enemy in sight for the movie or whatever comes next - if such a possibility exists. Mars, for all I know, is only an area still being explored or that just focuses on making its life better since it seems that, according to Agnes, living conditions on the red planet are harsh enough to compel the colons to only accept those the community has a need for.

If they're still struggling with the environment there or trying to find a way to better their settlements, increase their research or at least make their lives easier, would it be easy for them to suddenly spare people that are needed for its survival and breed an army out of nowhere? Maybe in thirty years or in forty years, but right now I'm not sure it could be the case, especially since they are colons that do not expect any wars on their planet and invasions coming from afar - hence why they didn't mass produce any MSes. Right now I'll assume they don't either have the manpower or the wherewithal to start waging war with Earth or one of its main factions. They've other things to worry about right now.
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Old 2006-09-08, 11:02   Link #43
zgmf-x19a
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or just make it a 2 minute animation like how the war started between EA and ZAFT
"during the last years Mars has been developping at an extremely fast rate surprising both Earth and Plant both Earth and Plant fearing that would later cause trouble decided to send on their accord their own forces to occupy the planet and monitor its activity which ended up in an accident involving Plant citizens EA citizens and Mars citizen and starting a new war between the 3 parties : Plant EA and Mars"
no clues needed to be left in GSD to have that
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Old 2006-09-08, 11:11   Link #44
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Atleast it would be something new then another EA vs Zaft Vs Terminal/Orb.
Besides EA after Destiny is pretty much finished in my opinion and I just don't see Orb (witch Cagalli as leader) vs Zaft (witch Lacus as adviser).
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Old 2006-09-08, 11:18   Link #45
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Lacus would win that's all
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Old 2006-09-08, 11:35   Link #46
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X Astray's nameless character with one 2 panels worth of page-time went on to become one of the GSD's spotlight whore, Gilbert Dullindal.

Yes, I know Deacon says it's not stated anywhere that it is Gilbert, but looking at all the hints, it'd really all points to Gilbert. He never appeared anywhere anymore as the "Enigmatic Man" post-Canard persuasion, he speaks in the retero-metaphorical speech ala Raww and Gilbert, his fashion taste reflects Gilbert's, he wants Kira dead, he knows of the Ultimate Coordinator Project....Okay, Gil is not shown to have a certain degree of close unarmed combat, but the only time we see him hostile, he holds a gun facing another gun. Unless Astray states that that "man" is not Gilbert and turns out to be his clone/some secret member of something/ruler of Mars/whatever, I'm staying under the assumption that he is.

Putting that aside, I'm under the believe that while Fukuda and co. develops the main story for the world of C.E consisting of his own cast, the world and universe of C.E as it's own is not wholly thought up and created by him and thus, he himself too works on a set formula of a world laid out for him. If the universe creates a presentation where Mars is legimately a susceptible force to be used in the marketing force of a new sequel/side-story/spin-off/cash cow/etc, I don't see why Fukuda would use this opportunity. He may distance himself from established Astray deals like Lowe, Canard, and co, but it's not like he ignores their existence.

Anyway, the SEED movie will make light on whether or not Mars can be a potential player in the game of C.E chess. I'd expect some light on the SEED movie probably by end of this year or early next year, because SEED always get early hype.

Frankly, I would love to see a C.E non-canon spin-off where Kira fights against Lacus.
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Old 2006-09-08, 11:51   Link #47
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People seem to have the idea where it would be ZAFT or Earth who'd bring trouble upon Mars. However, I tend to think of it as the other way around.

I know, at this moment, it looks like a far-fetched idea, with Mars being a new, legitimate threat to the stability and status quo that is ZAFT and Earth.

However, lets be serious. We have an upcoming movie, slated to become a sequel to Destiny. No doubt it'd contain a lot of mecha action and warfare, except you have to ask yourself, who'd be opposing the existing established order? Many have already mentioned that Earth is pretty much finished. ZAFT isn't doing much better. So that leaves who to be an enemy? Well, pretty much Mars, them being the more developed 'faction' out of the existing ones, all of which are exhausted by years of warfare.

Of course, there are other possibilities beside Mars, but to have a faction with enough power to challenge CE's existing order? It'd take a major transition, and one that is far more difficult, IMO, than if the writers were to use Mars...

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Old 2006-09-08, 12:09   Link #48
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It's true that most of EA forces are out and ZAFT seem to have suffered heavy losses too but ZAFT is still in a superior position but we haven't talked about ORB at the end of the war ORB emerged victorious so it's like the number 1 now (thanks to Lacus's support and her ace pilots)
but now that Lacus has returned to Plant Orb has lost much of his power.
I think that ZAFT and EA will likely be intertwined by Mars in this war. EA wouldn't want a new player that could disrupt the balance of power since EA and ZAFT are the main players they wouldn't want their position to be threatened the same would go for Plant if Mars houses coordinators that would mean they could have access to superior technology (in GSD Cagalli wanted her citizens returned to ORB because ZAFT has been exploiting their knowledge to improve their own technology and I don't think Plant would welcome Orb naturals but Orb coordinators more like)
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Old 2006-09-08, 12:32   Link #49
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I think there is a possibility for Mars to come into the main stage: if they "project" new members through the "Ultimate Coordinator Project"... or, to use other words, they're "produced" like Kira was. After all that project was done in a colony, so why not esporting it on Mars, especially after the reference that they use only "the needed persons", while the others are just trash. From Gundam Seed and GSD we have seen that normal Coordinators are imperfect, meaning they don't bore with the exactly projected features because of their mother's womb, and the production of children in artificial womb was the main aim of the Ultimate Coordinator Project.
If we have a huge group of "Ultimate Coordinators" on Mars then they're going to become problematic in the future for sure, especially in they aim at the egemony.
Other ways to alter CA status quo is destined to fail: Kira + Athrun + Shinn are simply overkill for any armies, that's pretty obvious.

More in general I wouldn't mind if they introduce remote colonies like Mars, Jupiter, Saturn and so on: but this would need severe scripting abilities and in this Fukuda greatly sucks, or his wife as she should be the script director.
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Old 2006-09-08, 14:31   Link #50
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if an army of Ultimate Coordinators were to exist that would change everything
I think that Kira Athrun and Shin even if they team up won't be able to cope with those enemies

Last edited by zgmf-x19a; 2006-09-08 at 16:28.
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Old 2006-09-08, 14:47   Link #51
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not with their X19, 20 and 42 MSes they cant....but when Lacus gives them their X29, X30 and 2nd-gen destiny the opponents will tremble in fear and crawl into a lil hole and die
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Old 2006-09-08, 16:29   Link #52
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hmm if they have access to the latest of technology then we'll have to wait to see I'd rather them having a hard time I wanna see them struggle because God like status for Kira seems a bit boring though I always liked it when he beat the crap out of grunts suits and Shin and Rey lol
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Old 2006-09-08, 19:58   Link #53
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After Destiny used up the two gigantic villain themes in hidden business conspiracy and total obliteration of individualism, matrix fashion, I'm having trouble seeing the big evil that would drive Mars. Aliens from space is like totally overdone already, and whatever Mars pulls will seem out of place with the traditional grand questions of life that SEED use.
What other grand questions of life are there that people can relate to, they are not that abundant. Without an overarching grand theme, Mars will just be another powerful external threat that must be fought with force, that just kills the show.

At this point the main story of kira's uniqueness and all that remains undeveloped, maybe they'll find something to develop that, but leaving it open ended is also fine, but please please show some more lacus. T_T
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Old 2006-09-08, 23:50   Link #54
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Quote:
...hence why they didn't mass produce any MSes
Yeah, and Iran isn't trying to manufacture nukes.

We can't really say what Mars is doing or has done. We really know nothing about what's going on over there.

Could they be a threat? Was Axis a threat in UC? After all, it was just an asteroid base... What about the AEUG, Char's Neo Zeon, the Crossbone Vanguard/Cosmo Babylonia, or the Delaz Fleet?
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Old 2006-09-08, 23:55   Link #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anselfir
After Destiny used up the two gigantic villain themes in hidden business conspiracy and total obliteration of individualism, matrix fashion, I'm having trouble seeing the big evil that would drive Mars. Aliens from space is like totally overdone already, and whatever Mars pulls will seem out of place with the traditional grand questions of life that SEED use.
Well big evil is a bit too strong as word I think. Let's speak clearly: EA vs ZAFT is boring... we all know how it would end, especially after Destiny.
There is the need of some new force to come into play to make the show more refreshing to see!
If the guys on Mars are all Ultimate Coordinators I don't think they are as dumb as Blue Cosmos wanting total destruction: but to enslave all yes!
To their eyes Coordinators would be just imperfect guinea pigs to use just as low-middle managers, while Naturals would be slaves for manual works.

Quote:
What other grand questions of life are there that people can relate to, they are not that abundant. Without an overarching grand theme, Mars will just be another powerful external threat that must be fought with force, that just kills the show.
Of course to use the Mars theme it's needed lots of scripting skill...
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Old 2006-09-09, 03:28   Link #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anselfir
Aliens from space is like totally overdone already
- Not to mention thast this is Gundam. Even if it's not UC gundam, and that Aliens have been hinted at in the series before, I somehow don't think it'll work with Alien weapons landing and nuking the planet. A properly done Gundam is about human beings versus other human beings, you put humans against aliens and that totally throws that ambiguity out the window.

Maybe it's Mars. Or maybe it's a series of smaller battles with insurgent forces of either or both PLANT and Earth. I don't know. In any way, you'd have to be a damn good writer to pull off something that doesn't seem pasted on if a Destiny movie comes to light.
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Old 2006-09-09, 07:55   Link #57
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Originally Posted by wavehawk
- Not to mention thast this is Gundam. Even if it's not UC gundam, and that Aliens have been hinted at in the series before, I somehow don't think it'll work with Alien weapons landing and nuking the planet. A properly done Gundam is about human beings versus other human beings, you put humans against aliens and that totally throws that ambiguity out the window.

Maybe it's Mars. Or maybe it's a series of smaller battles with insurgent forces of either or both PLANT and Earth. I don't know. In any way, you'd have to be a damn good writer to pull off something that doesn't seem pasted on if a Destiny movie comes to light.
Aliens? What Aliens are you guys talking about? We are talking of HUMAN colonies on Mars, not alien civilizations...
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Old 2006-09-09, 09:05   Link #58
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The story so far is not about fighting new world powers, it is about the enlightenment of Kira. In SEED he learned war, in Destiny a whole bunch of enlightened stuff that are either too numerous or too unclear to list, and what will he learn in the third installment/movie? That Lacus is really hot and she should have his babies?
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Old 2006-09-09, 15:21   Link #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anselfir
The story so far is not about fighting new world powers, it is about the enlightenment of Kira. In SEED he learned war, in Destiny a whole bunch of enlightened stuff that are either too numerous or too unclear to list, and what will he learn in the third installment/movie? That Lacus is really hot and she should have his babies?
That will be the Ultimate Enlightenment for this Ultimate Coordinator.
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Old 2006-09-09, 15:25   Link #60
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccardoso
Aliens? What Aliens are you guys talking about? We are talking of HUMAN colonies on Mars, not alien civilizations...
And he is saying just that, its a Gundam franchise, and therefore, it'd be a bit far of a stretch to actually include ALIEN CIVILIZATIONS invading Earth or human colonies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife
That will be the Ultimate Enlightenment for this Ultimate Coordinator.
Oh yeah, absolutely. 100% in agreement there, but at least in that, we are getting very close Or if you prefer a quantum leap... there are always Doujins

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