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Old 2006-09-11, 12:59   Link #41
Hunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
What I meant is the sand that Gaara has used to attack Sasuke, and his other opponents. He can control any sand he likes but the one that has the biggest power and I guess fastest attack is the sand he carries, which is limited.
I understand better what you meant then.

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Anyway, that is just a matter of opinion, but for your chakra example, I don't really see the difference between pure chakra, and something that carries chakra. In humans Sharingan was able to predict movements because they can capture muscle movements etc. But, in the case of wooden spikes, if they are formed in a random manner, just like the chakra extensions, I don't see how Sharingan was able to predict its movement (a better choice of word will be generation). If something comes directly at the person, even someone without Sharingan can easily dodge that.
Well it's very different : a certain chakra flow inside the body and the Sharingan can interpret that as a Genjutsu, a certain chakra flow coming to the muscles and the Sharingan can predict what the body is coming to do, a certain chakra flow in a given jutsu and the Sharingan will break down its principles for its user to understand.
And then a chakra flow outside the body acting by itself without acting on another medium and the Sharingan is clueless about what it's gonna do.

Sasuke got hit by the Sand Spike when Gaara closed the Sand Egg before Sasuke tried the Chidori or used his Sharingan.
When he activated it and charged Gaara he was able to avoid all the spikes to strike the main body.

Didn't we have this very same discussion during the Naruto vs. Sasuke fight btw? -quick search-
Haha I knew it. Funny enough you were comparing Gaara's sand and the Kyubi's chakra because they don't show regular attack patterns which is precisely my point of comparison between Yamato's wood and this sand.

Which to repeat myself didn't stop Sasuke to succeesfully avoid them all when he attacked Gaara, hence not a very useful anti-Sharingan tool (not to say it can't hit mind you, just not a direct counter like Tailed-Naruto has).

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The closest part that is assumed to be cut seem more like a branch to me than a cut. And if I were Yamato I wouldn't charge with a single piece of wood to a person, rather create branches to tie him and restrict his movements. Anyway, that is the logic I used for that branch theory.
And personally I would have created an extention of wood out of my feet and attacked from underground but Yamato isn't either of us.
The pic where Sasuke uses the Chidori Nagashi just shows Yamato's wood as it was the pic before except the part inside the lightning field. This part simply looks pulverized.

Quote:
You are right, Sasuke has the right tools to avoid wood attack, but Yamato has also the right tools to prevent that defensive moves or attacks (such as powerful water and earth based techniques). At the end it all depends on Kishimoto's decision, but at this point, it all depends on how we look at it, either giving credit to Yamato or Sasuke.
And note I never say Yamato would have a disadvantage because of his fighting style. I was merely pointing out that why and how Sasuke's known attacks could deal with Yamato's known attacks.
In the same way Yamato seems to be able to do pretty much anything and everything with his wood without talking of Suiton or Doton.
I don't think this fight will ever happen but it would be an interesting one for sure.
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Old 2006-09-11, 13:25   Link #42
Sazelyt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Well it's very different : a certain chakra flow inside the body and the Sharingan can interpret that as a Genjutsu, a certain chakra flow coming to the muscles and the Sharingan can predict what the body is coming to do, a certain chakra flow in a given jutsu and the Sharingan will break down its principles for its user to understand. And then a chakra flow outside the body acting by itself without acting on another medium and the Sharingan is clueless about what it's gonna do.
I also believe chakra usage in the humans is different from a pure chakra flow. But, what if the chakra flows within the trees created by mokuton show similar patterns to the chakra sea. The user just pumps in the chakra, and the branches are created randomly at some locations (that is for instance determined not by chakra but the tree itself), and when it is created the chakra pumped into that tree starts to leak to that extension just like water flow and continue to make it grow. Due to the nature of the technique, if the chakra flow is unchanged then it would act more like the Kyuubi chakra extension.
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Old 2006-09-11, 13:43   Link #43
Hunter
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Hmmm interesting.
We're purely speculating here but can see that working or not, it really depends of the informations the Sharingan could take and compile for its user.
It would seem however quite difficult to attack with any precision in this fashion : the growth of the tree being almost "natural" and thus purposeless in term of battle anyway...
Then again Yamato alterning a system of the sort with quick "chakra instruction" could maybe sort it out.
I think it also depends if Sasuke avoided the spike of sand thanks to simple trajectory/speed prediction once they were appearing or if the chakra imbued inside was involved in this prediction.

Still overall I would say Yamaro's ability to grow trees remotely, in huge amount and from underground would be his most useful point in this fight. The Sharingan is good but it doesn't give eyes behind your back and given the way Yamato created a crazy waterfall I can see him making a killing forest all around his opponent(s).
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Old 2006-09-11, 15:12   Link #44
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yamato also has his scary face jutsu. The wood one he terrifies naruto with.

I think he's supposed to be slightly weaker than kakashi, even though his mokuton stuff looks unreal
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Old 2006-09-11, 17:04   Link #45
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It's difficult to compare because Sasuke is very good in taijutsu and genjutsu because of his sharingan and probably also Oro's teachings. Yamato is very good with ninjutsu, his chakra nature and shape manipulation seems to be above the others, just think about him being able to build a house, that must be a high level shape manipulation besides the nature manipulation of already 2 mixed natures. So one is better with tai and genjutsu while the other with ninjutsu, it's difficult to compare based on different kind of abilities.
However i think Sasuke's ninjutsu skills may rival that of Yamato, not equal in the ability of shaping+2natures manipulation, but better with raw power, that is he probably has some "that" jutsus and more chakra then Yamato to use them (especially in CS2 mode). So it's 2:1 or even 3:1 for Sasuke.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese4u
This would be true in any other situation except for the fact that Kikashi said himself that Naruto would be stronger than him. Meaning that currently Naruto is on the brink of surpassing Kikashi.
I meant that kakashi said it to cheer up Naruto, you know in the same chapter they say how good Kakashi is with words, look how he made Yamato pay the bill I agree that Kakashi thinks seriously that Naruto will surpass him in the long run ( that would mean 10-20 years), however i think in the short term he was more likely just trying to give Naruto the needed self confidence that he can do what others were not able. But that one super-jutsu will not make Naruto instantly surpass Kakashi. For example Naruto still is not able to stand the genjutsu of sharingan masters, Naruto is still hot blooded in battles which means certain death against people like Sasori, Naruto still cannot understand more complex theory of chakra and therefore probably not able to do more advanced seals (like Kakashi did to Sasuke to suppress the CS), etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese4u
That's true but Naruto has beaten smart and experience ninja.
I agree, but an akatsukian is still too strong and smart for Naruto, i mean if he goes alone, look at the battle against the already crippled Deidara. Also Sasori would have poisoned him to death in a second.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese4u
Kikashi can barely use Sharingan without passing out. MS is formidable but not something to be used often, like Naruto's techniques. Even Itachi seems to have a little trouble with MS.
I disagree with this, Kakashi used the MS 3 times in a short period of time. His limit may be 1 or 2 (like he had with chidori, just less), he overused it. And the 3rd time he saved 2 konoha teams from certain death, nobody else had a proper jutsu against that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese4u
He's weaker but not by as much as you seem to be implying. Naruto never actually fought Sasuke so we can't say for sure.
I think Kishimoto will follow the same path in part 2 as he did in part 1: Naruto begins as a dropout (he is the only genin, plays only a minor role in the actual fight against Sasori/Deidara, goes berserk, cannot control his power properly) and then as the story progresses he approaches Sasuke's/akatsuki's level from fight to fight becoming better and better. That allows Kishimoto to set up those situation where the hero seems to have no chance, and ... you know that

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese4u
That's debatable. I'm almost ninety percent certain that "That Jutsu" is not 4-tails.
I was too, however most people on the forum say it's simply the 4-tail mode, and also it has not been mentioned ever after that. I still hope it will be a surprise from Kishimoto in a future fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese4u
Nothing is instantaneous, and if this jutsu doesn't make Naruto at least equal in strength to Sasuke then what's the whole point in doing it?
I think right after the training Naruto might be able to face a weaker akatsuki, but Kishimoto will make us wait more time, so that Naruto can grow until the last moment to save Sasuke, that is about half years from now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese4u
Yamato is a jonin with experience and a kekkei genkai. The only thing Sasuke has is a kekkei genkai, CS, and an attitude. We haven't seen Yamato go all out in one fight yet so we can't say for certain what he can do. But we do know what Sasuke can do and more importantly what he cannot do, he cannot copy Yamato wood jutsu so that puts him at a disadvantage, since Yamato does almost exclusively wood jutsu. That's not going to completely rule out Sharingan but it's most certainly going to knock it down quite a few notches, then Sasuke would have to rely on his non Sharingan strength. Which would mean we'd basically be looking at Wood jutsu(Kekkei genkai-advantage), and not being able to use Sharingan completely(very slight kekkei genkai, disadvantage) You do the math.
Why would wood jutsu nullify sharingan powers??? I don't understand your logic here.

Last edited by Ero-Senn1n; 2006-09-11 at 17:32.
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Old 2006-09-11, 21:59   Link #46
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Looking back I don't think "that Jutsu" that Jiraiya mentioned was the 4-tails...because it doesn't appear that Naruto really even know of the 4-tails until Yamato told him about it...It doesn't seem that Jiraiya told Naruto either, even though he tells Kakashi about it.
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Old 2006-09-13, 21:58   Link #47
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Looking back at 308, Yamato was serious. He realized how dangerous Sasuke was and look at the end result. Complete surprise at all of Sasuke's attacks.
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Old 2006-09-13, 23:54   Link #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tramadrama
Looking back at 308, Yamato was serious. He realized how dangerous Sasuke was and look at the end result. Complete surprise at all of Sasuke's attacks.
The fight was interrupted when Yamato was about to get serious. I guess Yamato didn't expect Sasuke to try to kill the people who still consider him a very precious friend. And when he finally realized that, he changed his mode of operation.
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Old 2006-09-14, 02:17   Link #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
The fight was interrupted when Yamato was about to get serious. I guess Yamato didn't expect Sasuke to try to kill the people who still consider him a very precious friend. And when he finally realized that, he changed his mode of operation.
I agree with Sazelyt. What i get from what he said was that with Naruto and Sakura there, he hoped he would not have to get serious but was forced to after witnessing Sasuke's power and intentions. Thats when Sasuke started doing that 'jutsu' and was then interrupted. So we can only speculate as to how the fight would have become but remember that Tenzou wasnt serious.
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Old 2006-09-14, 06:34   Link #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
The fight was interrupted when Yamato was about to get serious. I guess Yamato didn't expect Sasuke to try to kill the people who still consider him a very precious friend. And when he finally realized that, he changed his mode of operation.
Yeah that was the basis of this discussion when I started it, not the attacks before it.
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Old 2006-09-14, 09:19   Link #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DriftingShinobi
I agree with Sazelyt. What i get from what he said was that with Naruto and Sakura there, he hoped he would not have to get serious but was forced to after witnessing Sasuke's power and intentions. Thats when Sasuke started doing that 'jutsu' and was then interrupted. So we can only speculate as to how the fight would have become but remember that Tenzou wasnt serious.
Maybe that's true, but he noticed just how fast Sasuke was; he saw the Chidori Negashi; witnessed Sasuke's intent to kill; and got stabbed all before he said the "It's time to get serious" statement. Look how much happened before he said that. Why couldn't it be interpreted as a bluff?
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Old 2006-09-14, 09:44   Link #52
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Yamato will still lose. Even if all of Sasgay cheesy skills failed, kishi will give him another jutsu/sharingan application/kuchiyose/bijuu.
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Old 2006-09-14, 10:13   Link #53
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I wonder what jutsu Sasuke was about to use though, I don't think it was sealinvolved seeing how he just raised his hand. Was it a DBZ kind of blast LOL?
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Old 2006-09-14, 10:18   Link #54
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I wonder what jutsu Sasuke was about to use though, I don't think it was sealinvolved seeing how he just raised his hand. Was it a DBZ kind of blast LOL?
Come forth~SUZAKU!!!!

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Old 2006-09-14, 10:20   Link #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tramadrama
I wonder what jutsu Sasuke was about to use though, I don't think it was sealinvolved seeing how he just raised his hand. Was it a DBZ kind of blast LOL?
There was 1 seal, like the Katon one. Or is Katon 1 finger up on each hand? i dnt remember.

Edit: Nevermind, Katon is 2 fingers up on each hand ^^'.
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Old 2006-09-14, 21:32   Link #56
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Originally Posted by Blaster
Yamato will still lose. Even if all of Sasgay cheesy skills failed, kishi will give him another jutsu/sharingan application/kuchiyose/bijuu.
It is quite sad that i have to agree with you Kishi probably dreams of being Sasugay at night
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Old 2006-09-14, 21:40   Link #57
bested
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think sasuke woulda definitely beat him... But i don't know, im not the writer =)

ps. can someone tell me what happened to my posts? about the game, they keep getting trashed, or deleted...
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Old 2006-09-14, 22:32   Link #58
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Man when sasuke fought it didnt even seem like he was trying and he was still able to stave him so i dont think hell be able to hold his own agaisnt Sasuke
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Old 2006-09-15, 03:51   Link #59
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Originally Posted by animefullmetal
Man when sasuke fought it didnt even seem like he was trying and he was still able to stave him so i dont think hell be able to hold his own agaisnt Sasuke
Yes just like his older brother, both have an annoying attitude...
But i do believe that they were serious...it's just that they know what's coming (Sharingan)

Sasuke was only 1 time suprised by Yamato's counter because he knew it would happen but never believed it himself...
(he was like: what the my special blade is getting pushed back?!)

Anyway i really hoped that Yamato would wait till Sakura punched the Sh|t out of Sasuke...but that was stopped...(so Sasuke still thinks Sakura is quite the weakling )

What a suprise eh? [Sakura -> Sasuke] [Tsunade -> Orochimaru]
(Oro: come to think of it...i've never fought you before. - Sannin Arc)
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Old 2006-09-15, 03:57   Link #60
Wrath of the Uchiha
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Emphasis was placed on Sasuke to stop his jutsu, Orochimaru knew he was about to kill them and stopped him. Team 7 as it was stood no chance against him.

It's the reason Naruto's training right now, to get stronger than him. The gap between Naruto and Sasuke will close after Naruto finishes training, Yamato will be behind them. IMO it would be Kakashi who would have held his own somewhat.
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