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Old 2006-12-10, 11:15   Link #601
slates
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Quote:
Originally Posted by questmark View Post
To me, that obviously means he's going to have to side with Revy-- thus, I wonder what that'll mean.... re: him and Yukio and Balalaika. If he sides with Revy, someone's going to become his enemy, and for once, he's really going to have to ACT, and essentially do something irreversible, rather than watching from the sidelines. Also, I thought the ep was really interesting because it really demonstrated how this arc is bringing so much into focus from the rest of the series.
yes. what's at stake for rock is something very personal... the same thing he's got with revy, the fact that she's an unrepentent criminal and murderer, yet still someone he cares about. she's not coming back to his side, that's for sure. how does he resolve that? eventually, he'll have to give up a part of himself to commit to her and the others... so far he's just been lucky (and a good liar). he owes these people his life, and what have they asked in return? to stick around? not a whole lot. he judges the people around him and the bad things they do, but it's false economy.

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Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
I sure hope there's a reason behind showing these Balalaika flashbacks. This arc is pretty much just another shop for her, but the flashback make you look at it more in a personal way. Watch her die or something like that.. :3
i was wondering the same thing. after 22, i thought those flashbacks were perhaps meant to show how far balalaika has come from that time. in 22, you get a juxtaposition between balalaika ordering the death and destruction of the washimine with a scene of her as a carefree child. in the context of the episode, i felt like that was saying that "there's no going back" once you cross over. small bits of humanity here and there, like loyalty to the people around you ... and that ties in to so many things, like takenaka and the fact that revy DID rescue rock; the conversation between chang and balalaika in the twins arc, revy & rock's fight, on and on. just like questmark said. i don't see "pity" coming into play because that would be contrary to a lot of things, including the entire point of yukio's speech in 22, revy's sub speech, etc.

and i don't want to go off topic, but one tangential note... i saw the new u.s. movie "blood diamond" this weekend. pretty good. anyone who likes these aspects of BL would probably like that movie a lot.

Last edited by slates; 2006-12-10 at 11:41.
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Old 2006-12-10, 11:51   Link #602
Soulcatcher
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Originally Posted by MrProphet View Post
"Visotniki" (высотники) is a Russian word. Means "mountaineers". Usually refers to alpinists, but can mean anyone who works "up high".

To translate for our non-russian-speaking friends.

Visotnik 1) Construction worker on high-rise buildings; a specialist, who works in high places. 2) Person specializing in high-altitude flying, climbing. A pilot. An alpinist. (Ozhegov dictionary)
Lol, it's pretty humiliating, thx for the info. Didnt think of checking Ozhegov.

Still, my point stands - it has nothing to do whatsoever with soldiers :) Moreover, it's very specialized word that isnt used widely.

Quote:
PS: And Balalaika did not serve in Spetsnaz, she apparently served in the Airborne troops. The difference between them would be somewhat equal to the difference between US Army Rangers and the Marine Corps.
Nah, i just called that group "spetsnaz" to differentiate them from her ordinary underlings.
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Old 2006-12-10, 12:11   Link #603
flosduellatorum
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Having read the perceptive comments of both slates and questmark, I'd like to give my non-romantic opinion of how I would resolve the dilemna of our dear rock-san.
He obviously has a thing for Yukio, she being japanese, a nice philosophy-reading schoolgirl(didn't we all expect the schoolgirl "motif" to appear eventually?), but he's really stupid if if he doesn't know where his loyalties should lie.
His loyalty should be to his crew, that's all. With Revy risking her life to save him on that island(with Shen), all Yukio has shown is that she likes to talk to him, nothing more. Maybe she would sacrifice him in a blink of an eye for her own organisation, we don't know.
And Revy has followed Rock("to be his gun")even though she disapproves of him complicating matters, and possibly arousing bala's wrath. So Revy has done a lot for Rock in her own way and he would be stupid to take it for granted. For a person like Revy, who initially shot at him many times, she has come a long way and it means she really likes him.
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In life one thing I have learnt is never to really give your loyalty to an organisation. It will always let you down. But if you give your loyalty to a team or to people, they may come through for you. This is something Bala probably has learnt. She gave her loyalty to the motherland, got her face burnt, lost her chance at the olympics, and was part of a losing war. Now she realizes, she is only loyal to her own men and her own welfare.
The only friends rock has now is the BL crew and his IQ would be very low if he were to let them down because of Yukio.
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About cigarette kisses and panty-shots. I only learnt about the term "fan-service" a week ago. So I guess I'll be rooting to see Rock in his underwear.
For the cigarette kiss, I can understand qmark seeing it as a great anime moment.
I respect his opinion as he obviously has seen a lot of anime. I just have a suspicion that japanese writers are shy to show facial kissing in anime. Everything else is OK, cruel violence, panty shots, rape, everything except your standard at-the-airport kiss. Guess it is "cultural differences".
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I see slates has slightly changed his view of whether rock has caused problems for bala. I don't think rock is the problem, it's mainly how yukio and bala want to deal with each other that is going to determine the outcome.
Perhaps there will be a "mexican standoff", with everybody ready to shoot each other, but rock, with his wonderful diplomatic skills will get both gals to cut a deal at the last mooment, thus avoiding bloodshed, like he did in Eda's church when Eda's boss didn't want to give em the RPG launcher.
After that Revy is bound to really look up to him.......and rock will be in a really good position to bonk her socks(cause that's what he wants, as we all know).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by questmark
Well, I love the cigarette kiss, so there!! neener neener neener!!

Big smooches are all well and fun, and I love them too, but the cigarette kiss was not only truly novel, but, for me, was so memorable because despite the fact that it wasn't a "real" kiss it was actually more intimate than many typical "true" kisses are on screen. For me, what makes it so hot, and wonderfully revealing, is how much the both of them can't say with words or a big kiss (which would have been waaaaayyyy out of character for them at that time), and therefore how much is said instead through the very understated action of the cigarette kiss. It's an action that normally wouldn't really be loaded with as much meaning, but between the two of them it becomes something much more-- which to me is something very sexy and intriguing. Just my take on it.
Dear Qmark, since you still are so enamoured with the cigarette kiss, please let me humbly, humbly explain it to you from a girl's point of view. It is really nothing significant or great.
1)Revy is all upset from the church. She is irritated that rock has solved the matter when she couldn't.
2)Little things become a shouting match. "I'm not eating", "I'm not driving".
3)She loses her temper and points her cocked piece at rock, because rock "dares" her to. This is her normal behaviour, anyway, pointing guns at people.
4)We can't even be sure she intentionally rolled the trigger, cause rock may have pulled/jerked the gun up and made her roll the trigger(in SA mode maybe 5lbs?) accidentally. So it could be she didn't shoot at rock, but of course pointing a cocked gun at someone's head with safety off is exceedingly reckless.
5)If she really wanted to off rock, she had her other gun. With rock crunching his hand on the slide and frame of her first gun, it's cycling might have been impaired, although it did eject brass properly, we don't know if it cycled the next round, returned to battery, etc, properly.
6)Thus she probably didn't have a strong intent to kill rock.....just was recklessly angry. But if he gets killed, hey, it's too bad.
7)She never went for her second gun.
8)She punches rock on his jaw, but curiously does not move him. Obviously she wasn't putting her heart into it.
9)Rock explains, she is the reason why he has changed so much, he doesn't want to see her as those that would have let him die, and this is very, very touching to her.
10)OK, she calms down.....starts feeling regretful, decides to make a gesture to show that things are OK between them. Thus cigarette kiss.

There, you see! Nothing exceptional.

Last edited by flosduellatorum; 2006-12-10 at 12:58.
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Old 2006-12-10, 12:52   Link #604
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Originally Posted by Soulcatcher View Post
Still, my point stands - it has nothing to do whatsoever with soldiers :) Moreover, it's very specialized word that isnt used widely.
I think the fact of its not being used widely is part of the reason she picked it; its usage is so relatively rare that it'd readily stick in people's minds, as well as foster a sense of unit identity. Or something. And/or she decided to interpret definition 2 ("Person specializing in high-altitude flying, climbing...") with a tiny bit of dramatic license.
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Old 2006-12-10, 13:35   Link #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flosduellatorum View Post
Dear Qmark, since you still are so enamoured with the cigarette kiss, please let me humbly, humbly explain it to you from a girl's point of view. It is really nothing significant or great.
1)Revy is all upset from the church. She is irritated that rock has solved the matter when she couldn't.
2)Little things become a shouting match. "I'm not eating", "I'm not driving".
3)She loses her temper and points her cocked piece at rock, because rock "dares" her to. This is her normal behaviour, anyway, pointing guns at people.
4)We can't even be sure she intentionally rolled the trigger, cause rock may have pulled/jerked the gun up and made her roll the trigger(in SA mode maybe 5lbs?) accidentally. So it could be she didn't shoot at rock, but of course pointing a cocked gun at someone's head with safety off is exceedingly reckless.
5)If she really wanted to off rock, she had her other gun. With rock crunching his hand on the slide and frame of her first gun, it's cycling might have been impaired, although it did eject brass properly, we don't know if it cycled the next round, returned to battery, etc, properly.
6)Thus she probably didn't have a strong intent to kill rock.....just was recklessly angry. But if he gets killed, hey, it's too bad.
7)She never went for her second gun.
8)She punches rock on his jaw, but curiously does not move him. Obviously she wasn't putting her heart into it.
9)Rock explains, she is the reason why he has changed so much, he doesn't want to see her as those that would have let him die, and this is very, very touching to her.
10)OK, she calms down.....starts feeling regretful, decides to make a gesture to show that things are OK between them. Thus cigarette kiss.

There, you see! Nothing exceptional.

Wow. I don't think the cigarette kiss was the end-all-be-all but you just totally dismissed it as nothing when it indeed was a VERY important scene.

You make it sound like she was just in a pissy mood that day and that was her way to make up. The whole reason why she was laying into Rock was that she felt he wasn't one of them, that he was an outsider that needed to return where he should be. She was intentionally being mean to him to make him want to leave.


1) Yes she was irritated that Rock solved the problem but what bothered her more is that he was becoming like them.

2)Again she is purposely making things out of nothing in order to make him leave. The whol ep she is thinking it would be better for mhim to go back to the way he was.

3)Yes its her normal behavior but she resorts to pulling the gun on Rock because he is showing balls that he never showed before, and her intimidation is not working.

4) You are right I don't think she meant to shoot as she was surprised when the gun went off

5-7) Again she never wanted to kill him she was just trying to scare him away.
You seriously do not see Rock's determination in that episode. He has never stood up to Revy like this before and it catches her off guard

8) Oh she went at him full power all right, which is why she is stunned that not only is he not down, he is still all up in her face

9) true, and this is the whole reason why her attitude toward him would change forever.

10) No way this was just a im sorry. Had the stuff in the ep not happened she would have just asked the cop for a light too. She made a point to do it with him. This is a gesture that she finally accepts him as one of them. would she have ever tried to cigarette kiss him the way things were between them before? never, not even as an apology. The guts he showed that day totally changed her view of him and how she treated him from that point on.

I don't think it was as romantic as other people think it is, but more of a turning point. It's definately not a alrite we cool now thing lol
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Old 2006-12-10, 13:38   Link #606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulcatcher View Post
Still, my point stands - it has nothing to do whatsoever with soldiers Moreover, it's very specialized word that isnt used widely.
Well, there are mountain infantry brigades (горно-стрелковые бригады), so why not have something like that for the paratroopers as well.

I mean, yeah, it's all pretty hokey, but like I've mentioned before, it's just a fantasy setting.
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Old 2006-12-10, 14:06   Link #607
questmark
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Well, I didn't mean to imply that the cigarette kiss was somehow the end all be all of romantic moments, but I really do feel there's a wonderful understated sexual tension going on in that moment-- almost as if the two of them don't want to admit the attraction they're starting to feel for each other. True, a "true" kiss has that sense of a definitive decision being made-- it has a lot of intent to it, that I don't think the cigarette kiss has. I liked the cig-kiss though because of what it said about the characters that they themselves didn't really seem to know.

But, if you watch that scene and don't really see it as a really central turning point in Rock and Revy's relationship, then I guess it wouldn't mean that much to you. I don't think it has much to do with whether or not we're guys or girls when viewing it. To me, there was a lot of build up to that moment over the last few eps, and the intimate, partnerly cig-kiss (almost surprising Rock by how intimate it is, he obviously is a bit embarrassed at first) is the pay off for that.

I guess if you read Rock's embarrassment as simply being some sort of Japanese cultural moment that has nothing to do with it being Revy he's doing it with, or that their arguments and discussions (both in the ep itself and in the submarine ep) don't have a lot of intimate psychological dancing around, as the two of them try to figure each other out, and why they're so attracted to each other in some strange way-- then yeah, I guess the cigarette kiss wouldn't mean much.

I don't mean to say it's the same as a "real" kiss-- it's not, and is very different, as you've pointed out flos. For me though, I guess it's just sort of emblematic of the very real, never-spoken, subtly growing intimacy between them. That sort of understatement is a viewing experience I really like. Just preference and opinion I suppose.
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Old 2006-12-10, 14:10   Link #608
Crystal_Method
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Does anyone else here look at the whole cigarette kiss thing as not actually being a cigarette kiss. The way I look at it is that revy just wanted a light for her cig, I don't think she is that creative to think of a "cigarette kiss". I'm not saying she has no feelings for him, it's just I look at it at a logical point of veiw. Why waste a match when you already got one cig lit.
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Old 2006-12-10, 14:40   Link #609
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Originally Posted by Crystal_Method View Post
The way I look at it is that revy just wanted a light for her cig, I don't think she is that creative to think of a "cigarette kiss". I'm not saying she has no feelings for him, it's just I look at it at a logical point of veiw. Why waste a match when you already got one cig lit. :D
Hmmmm, that's true. Indeed, I would be quite amused if the writers later reveal that the scene was intended as a 'red herring'...
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Old 2006-12-10, 15:03   Link #610
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there is no way in hell the cigarette kiss has no meaning. In fact i would label it as the most potent scene in the entire BL anime. Both main characters exhude great moments of catharsis and the cigarette kiss symbolizes their recognition and appreciation for each other. A real kiss would ruin the entire perception of both characters.
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Old 2006-12-10, 15:44   Link #611
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Originally Posted by Crystal_Method View Post
Does anyone else here look at the whole cigarette kiss thing as not actually being a cigarette kiss. The way I look at it is that revy just wanted a light for her cig, I don't think she is that creative to think of a "cigarette kiss". I'm not saying she has no feelings for him, it's just I look at it at a logical point of veiw. Why waste a match when you already got one cig lit.
Well, I'm sure you know my take on it. But as before, in my mind, what makes it so interesting to me is that they don't really seem to know what it means before they do it. As you said so well Crystal_Method, "I don't think she is that creative to think of a "cigarette kiss".' Agreed. They don't know it's loaded with meaning per se, they just sort of feel it (particularly if you see Rock's original reaction), but as a viewer, we do see its significance (or at least it seems that way to me).

I thought kauldron26 really nailed it for me-- it sort of symbolizes "their recognition and appreciation of each other" at the least, whether or not you want to read something romantic in to it.

Still, its funny-- I never recognized how much that moment is a sort of litmus test for BL viewers-- people seem to really respond to it in one of two ways.
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Old 2006-12-10, 15:59   Link #612
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High are the hopes of many here for conventional romance to occur between the two main characters, and perhaps that may yet come about as a result of this anime-original ending I keep hearing about, but in so far as I've read in the manga (still the standard) that is, at this point, unlikely.

The cigarette-lighting moment didn't impact me so deeply, even if I am a hepless romantic, because Black Lagoon did not build up my expectations for that sort of development. It'd be quiet a challenge in fact for the author to turn away from his present train of style and cram in some conventional romance... difficult, but not impossible. Cameraderie would be the word at the moment, IMO.

The latest manga arc, Maid to Kill, seems to continue the author's preference for the gritty rather than the sentimental, as it is set off by this event:

Spoiler for Minor spoiler:


Comes as close to the killing of a "good character" the storyline has seen so far. I still haven't had a chance to read the manga, but am tremendously happy about this inclusion of Garcia, Roberta and Co. as part of the reoccurring character lineup.
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Old 2006-12-10, 17:42   Link #613
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The whole deal with the cigarette kiss is more about its execution than the fact that they were smoking. Watching that scene was different in a sense, considering the nature of the story and its setting—and not to mention, this happens after that whole argument between Rock and Revy.

Also, if you're just going to offer a light, just pass your cigarette. But no, the anime (and the manga to a lesser extent) goes as far as dramatizing it in a specific, laid back way. It has a degree of sexual tension, I agree—but who knows where this will lead? The manga is still far from the final chapter after all.

If there's going to be romance between these two characters, I think it won't be the of conventional kind. Probably something mixed in along with themes of loyalty and trust between two partners in crime, or something to that effect.
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Old 2006-12-10, 18:57   Link #614
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God watching Revy work is like waking up to your dream girl standing over you with nothing but a smile . The fact that Revy talks smack while bustin a cap in ya only adds to the insult of death. Her and Gin work well together natural born killers usually dont need much direction when teaming up. The move with Revy bending backwards while Gin Side slash was excellent not to mention splinting that bullet in half. Iv never been so happy to watch a bad guy suffer and die as i did in this one. THe fact that his hands were cut off then he was tossed in a pool was so damn cruel and i loved every min of it (yes i am a sick bastard)

It seems our princess is not as innocent as she seems, and as much as i like Rock her call on him was direct and pretty much right. Rock has some choices to make and they hard ones he cant stay between the light and dark he has to pick one its shitty and unfair but thats the way life goes. Revy is going to be an important factor in this as its obvious there are things going on between her and Rock. IMO Rock does not belong in Japan anymore even though he does not want to admit it he has become accustom to the life he is living now. I got the feeling the entire time he was in Japan he felt out of place like he didnt belong, he couldnt even go see his parents. The fact remains the old Rock is gone deep down inside he has made his choice he just has to have the balls to stick with it. Things are going to get worse before they get better and Rock better decide whose side he is on. As much as i feel for Yukio she made it perfectly clear that she chose this. Bala is ruthless and humanity has been stripped away by years of fighting and scratching to get to the top. In the end i dont Yukio will survive even though her and her group will put a hard fight. The flashback in 22 shows Bala as child when ordering the destruction of the Yukuza group. to me this ment there is no turning back and Yukio could end up just like Bala. The possible feelings that some think that Rock might have for Yukio is just not there if you ask me. I think Rock has taken an interest in her because of Revy. The flashback of Revy telling Rock about her past while talking to Yukio is proof. I think Rock seems what Revy could have been like before these things changed her. Thats just my take on it i find it interesting that Yukio has shares traits with Bala and Revy. 2 more episodes to go the second season is living up to waht i had hoped it would now im just hoping for a great ending

As for the the Cig kiss i think it ment a lot more than just Revy wanting a light that scene has so much undertone it was important scene for the whole series honestly if they would have really kissed i would have been disappointed thats too easy and not the style of BL. The understanding between the 2 during that scene is what makes it great it was an aknowledgement of respect and more from both charcters
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Old 2006-12-10, 20:29   Link #615
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Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
Iv never been so happy to watch a bad guy suffer and die as i did in this one. THe fact that his hands were cut off then he was tossed in a pool was so damn cruel and i loved every min of it (yes i am a sick bastard)
Understanding of such a sentiment has always eluded me; after all, I've long ago figured that if I want someone dead, it's best done in a quick and sure manner; clean, if possible.

Quote:
- second paragraph redacted -
The meat of this brings to mind a quote originally addressed to Sark, but it's perfectly applicable to our favorite ex-salaryman as well:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCP
"You've almost reached your decision gate. I can't spare you any more time."
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Old 2006-12-10, 22:16   Link #616
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Understanding of such a sentiment has always eluded me; after all, I've long ago figured that if I want someone dead, it's best done in a quick and sure manner; clean, if possible.
Yeesh. With the way you worded that, I sure wouldn't want to be the one prying up your floorboards anytime soon.

Anyway, I can totally dig the "slow and painful" death for your enemies. What's not to get? If someone tortured and pretty much raped a close friend, it'd be a treat to watch that guy's hands cut off, then slowly drown to death. Tis a fitting end.
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Old 2006-12-10, 23:07   Link #617
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Can anyone right now really imagine a relationship between rock and revy? I mean I hate to say this, but I just don't think it's a good match right now considering rock is to much of indecisive hypocrite. (As of now, how yukio confronted him, can't jump into conclusions yet not knowing the reasons for his decisions.). Maybe if rock kills someone or does some kind of thing like that, then a relationship can ignite. I can just imagine revy pointing her gun at rocks head and saying, "drop your pants now." And rock taking a big gulp, and relunctantly doing it. As much as that might be funny to some of you, to me thats just something that I just can't handle yet. However, that is something that defintely would fit revy's character.
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Old 2006-12-10, 23:21   Link #618
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"Relationship" is a big word. For that, I'd say no-- you're completely correct IMO Crystal_Method, but I think there could be some sort of mutual recognition that they've got something a little bit special going on between them.

However, I don't think it'd work just as much because Revy's a borderline occasional psychopathic murder who has difficulty relating to the people she kills without remorse, as it does Rock being an indecisive hypocrite. I think Rock gets a hard time from viewers compared to her, mostly because it's so much more fun to watch someone go around and be a total kickass badass with a gun than it is to see someone be indecisive and morally confused. And I think your description of Revy is really more of how she was 15 or 20 eps ago. I don't think she'd ever do a thing like that now with Rock.

Lets just say-- they both still have a lot of issues to work out. Revy's are just more entertaining.
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Old 2006-12-11, 01:14   Link #619
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Crystal_Method, may I humbly commend you upon your imagination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalM
I can just imagine revy pointing her gun at rocks head and saying, "drop your pants now." And rock taking a big gulp, and relunctantly doing it.
But no way he would be reluctant about it, he has the hots for her, he admitted it when he said he enjoyed seeing her shoot up the pirates in episode 2 or 3?? Anyway, since Revy likes him now, she wouldn't point her piece at his head now. She's more likely thinking of putting other things on his head, let me tell you this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyDevil
Anyway, I can totally dig the "slow and painful" death for your enemies. What's not to get? If someone tortured and pretty much raped a close friend, it'd be a treat to watch that guy's hands cut off, then slowly drown to death. Tis a fitting end.
Anything that is worth doing is worth doing slowly.

I'd like to thank Sinestra, Wadjet, Cal-Reflector and Kujoe for their perceptive comments. I feel honoured to be amongst forumites who are able to analyse an anime to this extent, almost making this like a classroon discussion of Shakespeare.

Back to the cig-kiss, looks like every discussion of BL is gonna be incomplete without ppl analysing that cig-kiss. I can tell you as a girl, that cig-kiss means absolutely nothing except what I said. Also I suspect ppl who smoke alot often do this(I don't smoke so I don't know), ie: sharing lights.
Think of the cig-kiss as just a girl having a run-of-the-mill argument with her boyfriend over his loyalty or suitability, then she feels regretful and makes a gesture to make-up. That's all it is! Sheesh, don't you boys have girlfriends who behave like that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by questmark
Well, I'm sure you know my take on it. But as before, in my mind, what makes it so interesting to me is that they don't really seem to know what it means before they do it. As you said so well Crystal_Method, "I don't think she is that creative to think of a "cigarette kiss".' Agreed. They don't know it's loaded with meaning per se, they just sort of feel it (particularly if you see Rock's original reaction), but as a viewer, we do see its significance (or at least it seems that way to me).

I thought kauldron26 really nailed it for me-- it sort of symbolizes "their recognition and appreciation of each other" at the least, whether or not you want to read something romantic in to it.

Still, its funny-- I never recognized how much that moment is a sort of litmus test for BL viewers-- people seem to really respond to it in one of two ways.
If you want to see romantic gestures, see korean drama, OK? Of course Revy doesn't purposely think, "OK, I feel bad now that I punched and almost offed this handsome but irritating goofball, so I'll ask him to press his cigarette into mine, and do cigarette-sex to show him we are OK."

I agree it means revy sees rock differently from then on, and also will start to treat him different. I think she actually said, she was not going to give him any more trouble from now on? And she saved his butt on that island with Mr.Terrorists on it.

Thus the cig-sex is a partial mixture of bg/f run-of-the-mill arguing and making up and also, I-accept-you-as-part-of-our-team now(even though you are weird).

Anyway, Dutch is smart to make them pair off, cause he knows they'll either resolve their issues, or only one will come back. That way the team will work.

I see Revy as not stupid, she needs to know whether she can trust this goofball and if his thinking is so different from hers, she won't be confident with him during work. But after understanding him better, she is OK with him(after all he is handsome, and you can't play with non-human guns all the time).

It's true that rock shows some guts, at least Revy now knows he has that. her thinking is, this guy at least is brave, even though his way of thinking is weird. Hmmm, maybe I can tolerate him. OK, let's have cigarette-sex.

From my own personal experience if I am forced to have somebody on my team that I am not confident of, I'll invariably try to see what he is really like, and that means giving him a hard time, not because I want to hurt him, but because I need to know whether he can be trusted. This is exactly what revy is doing and I sympathize totally with her.
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As a last note, in real life, with your gf or bf, you're gonna have tonnes of moments that have 100 times the psychological impact of such cigarette-sex.
So sorry, but that ciggie-sex doesn't do it for me? But maybe it was good for you, so to each his/her own.
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Some trivia:
We're gonna see lots of russian guns in the next episode, so if you are interested in looking at nice AKs, this collectors site is for you.
http://tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/default.html
Every once in a while, I get the urge to buy an AK, but I always demure. I find the ARs easier to shoot(I had to qualify with the AR-15), but the AKs are strangely lefty friendly, because since the cocking handle and safety are on the right side, I can operate em without taking my left hand off the grip which a righty would have to do.
In any case they have a full lefty AR already(in the US).
In the US, the best ARs are supposed to be the VEPRs sold by Robertson Armaments. They use a RPK receiver(AK machinegun variant) and the best parts from all over to make the rifle.
http://www.robarm.com/

Last edited by flosduellatorum; 2006-12-11 at 03:56.
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Old 2006-12-11, 01:57   Link #620
Tempest35
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Orlando
Rock could have rebutted Yukio's statements, in my opinion, but that would be me staring through Rock's eyes. Yukio was brought up around the yakuza. Sure they hid it from her as best she could but she had known they were always there - the death of her father really brought it home to her.

Rock might have had a year to get used to Ronapaur, Black Lagoon, and to Revy, but even so, I wouldn't expect Rock to be begging Revy to show him how to shoot a gun - that's not his MO. He doesn't want to turn into some heartless cynic who does what he does just because 'it's a job' as Dutch often says. It's a part of Rock that I hope will never die and I think that Revy would rather take a bullet than let that little part of Rock die as well - it's what attracts her to him.

Rock is a 'light' that she never really had - a chance to be 'normal'. With him around, I bet she feels as though she can act like a 'normal young woman' even though she knows she's not. She wants to protect him with as much zeal as Rock wanted to 'protect' Yukio for similar yet different reasons. She knows that Rock's not down with how things are served 'Ronapaur style', especially since it's in his home country so she's procted him - allowed him to live a year without really dirtying his hands on anything. She probably knows on some level that the way Rock is now, he can never be with BL (or with her for that matter) for very long. Rock will have to make the decision to jump to the light or to the dark and his dealings with Yukio will force it - it's just in a harsher way than Revy would have liked for Rock.

If Rock goes back to Ronapaur with Revy, it will be because, this time, he's not being dragged off at gunpoint, or because he doesn't have anywhere else to go (he's back in Japan) - he'd be going back because it's his own choice to be with her (and the crew).

Why is she so gentle with Rock - she likes him - durrrh. They both started at opposite ends of the spectrum of morality and everything else but they are slowly meeting in the middle. Rock's become slightly darker but Revy's outpaced him in her growing 'lighter'. Seen throughout this arc are demonstrations of Revy being considerate, protective, jealous, thoughtful, cute, smiling (genuinely), blushing, and other things that would make the Revy of old retch or at least go into denial about. Revy is ready to accept Rock but Rock still is clinging to his old self/Japan. Unless Rock lets go of his old self, he'll never fully embrace his new self, his new life, and most importantly, Revy herself (embracing as in accepting fully).

Okay, I'm done...@.@
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