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Old 2006-09-15, 15:21   Link #21
wsheit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86

FF7 AC was beautiful, yes, but after all the flash was over, I stepped back and said "so...what the hell did that movie achieve?"
Beauty is an achievement in and of itself. Socrates mused that the pursuit of beauty was perhaps THE true aim of life. Both the graphics and the fighting choreography were superlative in their beauty. So....right there...mission accomplished. Other than that, it can be argued that FF7 came from an era where graphics couldn't adequately depict how larger-than-life and over-the-top Cloud's struggle was. I think AC further equips our imaginations in this sense.
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Old 2006-09-15, 16:14   Link #22
ImperialPanda
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Sorry for going on topic, ;P but I hate how Square-enix is releasing ff on multiple platforms now. Want to just buy one system and be done with it.

Why release revenant wings as ds when pretty much every ff(12) fan has a ps2? At least with xenosaga the ds release was just a compilation of the ps2 games. Porting is good. Splitting a series among several platforms is bad.
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Old 2006-09-15, 17:58   Link #23
arias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsheit
Beauty is an achievement in and of itself. Socrates mused that the pursuit of beauty was perhaps THE true aim of life. Both the graphics and the fighting choreography were superlative in their beauty. So....right there...mission accomplished. Other than that, it can be argued that FF7 came from an era where graphics couldn't adequately depict how larger-than-life and over-the-top Cloud's struggle was. I think AC further equips our imaginations in this sense.
Socrates was wrong.

Don't pull that ancient famous Greek shit on me, I know my philosophy.



Anyway, as long as you conceded that FF7 AC was only beauty and attempted to downplay the importance of the plot and solidity, that's fine. I couldn't care less about opinions like these.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ImperialPanda
Sorry for going on topic, ;P but I hate how Square-enix is releasing ff on multiple platforms now. Want to just buy one system and be done with it.

Why release revenant wings as ds when pretty much every ff(12) fan has a ps2? At least with xenosaga the ds release was just a compilation of the ps2 games. Porting is good. Splitting a series among several platforms is bad.
It's not really clear that Sony will be the winning platform. Squeenix has become VERY profit oriented in recent years, as I've noted. I would think they want to secure themselves across all bases. The Revenant Wings on DS is because DS has a much larger RPG consumer fanbase than the PSP has. Bling bling spiks.

Anyway, Squeenix is creating games for the Wii as well, so I'm guessing they're just going to try and reap as much bling.
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Old 2006-09-15, 18:01   Link #24
Iron Maw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImperialPanda
Sorry for going on topic, ;P but I hate how Square-enix is releasing ff on multiple platforms now. Want to just buy one system and be done with it.

Why release revenant wings as ds when pretty much every ff(12) fan has a ps2? At least with xenosaga the ds release was just a compilation of the ps2 games. Porting is good. Splitting a series among several platforms is bad.
They have been doing this since NES era, so it's nothing new.
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Old 2006-09-15, 18:13   Link #25
Demongod86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsheit
Beauty is an achievement in and of itself. Socrates mused that the pursuit of beauty was perhaps THE true aim of life. Both the graphics and the fighting choreography were superlative in their beauty. So....right there...mission accomplished. Other than that, it can be argued that FF7 came from an era where graphics couldn't adequately depict how larger-than-life and over-the-top Cloud's struggle was. I think AC further equips our imaginations in this sense.
But it wasn't a remake. It was a sequel. So it should push the story rather than just give characters an attire change. In fact, I think it would have been better had they NOT given Tifa an attire change. Just to see her in her tanktop/shorts/suspenders in full CG woulda been a lot better I think.

But if you make a sequel, MAKE IT A CONTINUATION.

Actually in FF7, I was disappointed that you never actually got to fight regular sephiroth. You just fought some ugly boss mutation of sephiroth, and then in cloud's head, one omnislash was GG and he never attacked
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Old 2006-09-15, 18:17   Link #26
arias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86
Actually in FF7, I was disappointed that you never actually got to fight regular sephiroth. You just fought some ugly boss mutation of sephiroth, and then in cloud's head, one omnislash was GG and he never attacked
That fight was symbolic.
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Old 2006-09-15, 19:28   Link #27
Daniel E.
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First pic of Vaan and Penelo.

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Old 2006-09-15, 21:54   Link #28
wsheit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arias
Socrates was wrong.

Don't pull that ancient famous Greek shit on me, I know my philosophy.
So do I...was a phil major.
I hated Plato's Socratic works when I first read them (I still much prefer more modern philosophers such as Hobbes and Descartes), but ever since, the talk about beauty has seemed to become more and more pertinent. What is life about if not the pursuit and endurance of all things beautiful?

As to other saying that FF:AC should have been a strong story continuation rather than a send-off of the characters. FF7 takes scores of hours to complete; the story was reasonably deep. Do you really expect a 90 minutes film to be capable of delivering a deep response to a 40 hour opus? To me, the purpose of AC was clear from the start.
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Old 2006-09-15, 23:20   Link #29
arias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsheit
So do I...was a phil major.

I hated Plato's Socratic works when I first read them (I still much prefer more modern philosophers such as Hobbes and Descartes), but ever since, the talk about beauty has seemed to become more and more pertinent. What is life about if not the pursuit and endurance of all things beautiful?

As to other saying that FF:AC should have been a strong story continuation rather than a send-off of the characters. FF7 takes scores of hours to complete; the story was reasonably deep. Do you really expect a 90 minutes film to be capable of delivering a deep response to a 40 hour opus? To me, the purpose of AC was clear from the start.
Then you should know better than to quote someone who, while important to philosophy, is merely expressing an opinion. I think in your desperation to find some sort of meaning in life you have vouched for something faulty. It is too hasty a decision.. If you haven't read on existential literature, you should do so. Most US colleges don't do continental philosophy so I am not sure you would have read them. Basically, read up on "throwness" and other basic tenets of existentialism.

I think the value-neutral fundamentals of existentialism should make much more sense to you than Socrates or other opinions of some other dead Greek or famous figure. If you aren't devoted to value neutrality promoted in analytic philosophy, then I guess we won't be getting anywhere anytime soon. Regardless, bringing in some Socrates quote about pursuit of beauty is really, really poor. You still have to account for aesthetic standards being objective. If they were subjective, then your statement made no sense.

Finally, life being the pursuit of all things beautiful seems to me to be just another variation of hedonism. If you're stretching your notion of beauty to encompass more factors than just the aesthetic, then.. ; ) Let's just not even go there.



To me, the purpose of AC was clear from the start too. Nipple. Squeeze. Milk.
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Old 2006-09-15, 23:21   Link #30
Demongod86
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A 90 minute film? Of course, as a hollywood embrace between cloud and tifa would take all of 1 minute, if that.

In 90 minutes, I don't expect an entire new story, but I expect at least some semblance of something to say "yeah, cloud and tifa are hitched. Yeah, XXXX is doing soandso." Because clearly, it WASN'T a sending off of the characters. Because DoC proves that wrong.
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Old 2006-09-16, 00:03   Link #31
Shinoto
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First off, Best way to describe FFVII is a Spooge of FanService. The movie really did nothing but offer a very pretty picture and a ton of fan service for VII fans

Second. I mean I really dont see the problem here with XII going to DS or even a Prequel. Doesnt mean it can not be a quality game now. DS has a great number of great RPGs comming out...Just add this on to it.
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Old 2006-09-16, 00:04   Link #32
wsheit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arias
If you aren't devoted to value neutrality promoted in analytic philosophy, then I guess we won't be getting anywhere anytime soon. You still have to account for aesthetic standards being objective. Finally, life being the pursuit of all things beautiful seems to me to be just another variation of hedonism. If you're stretching your notion of beauty to encompass more factors than just the aesthetic, then.. ; ) Let's just not even go there.
That's the thing: A) my take on beauty is that standards can be simultaneously subjective and objective, and B) I take that stance because my philosophical stances are decidedly theistic and thus defy a good deal of modern philosophic/analytic thought; my philosophy professors thought I was crazy, too. So no, I don't think we're gonna get anywhere. Besides, as I interpreted the passage, Socrates' idea of beauty encompasses far more than the aesthetic.

Philosophy, IMO, has reached a real impasse in modern times. A very intelligent friend of mine put it best when he said that the problem with philosophy is words, themselves. But perhaps worse is the idea that philosophy can actually arrive at any truth. My stance is that all non a-priori philosophical claims will always be only opinions. So what's wrong with tossing out the opinion of one of the world's most revered philosophers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by arias
To me, the purpose of AC was clear from the start too. Nipple. Squeeze. Milk.
ouch! we have to agree to disagree here, clearly.[/QUOTE]
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Old 2006-09-16, 02:27   Link #33
arias
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Edit: The philosophy discussion moved to PM. Actually it was just the final message.



I like the cute look of young Vaan and young Penelo XD
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Old 2006-09-16, 05:26   Link #34
kujoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arias
I like the cute look of young Vaan and young Penelo XD
So is it a sequel or a prequel? I guess this is why some people figured it's going to be a prequel because they look somewhat younger.

However, I've seen some footage of the ending of FFXII. And... (Be prepared for a minor spoiler. Yes, it's just minor and trivial; trust me.)

Spoiler:

Maybe my logic is rather faulty there, but it's something to think about at least.

So yes, maybe it is indeed a sequel of sorts. Maybe.
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Old 2006-09-16, 13:53   Link #35
arias
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Shit.. I've been coming across too many FFXII spoilers

I'm going to stay off these threads until I get and complete the ENG version. I'm 40 hours into the Japanese one.. My guess is that it's a prequel, though I much prefer sequels. I quite dislike people creating stories just to fit it into current standing works..

Anyway, are you keeping track with Otome & Tsuyokiss? There may be light
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Old 2006-09-17, 10:36   Link #36
kujoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arias
Anyway, are you keeping track with Otome & Tsuyokiss? There may be light
Hah. Well, maybe in the manga version. I hope.

Anyway, we'll see how this prequel/sequel goes. I on the other hand prefer if this would become a prequel, but my sixth sense is telling me that it won't be one. Then again, I've been wrong before.
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Old 2006-09-17, 23:41   Link #37
Kaioshin Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSanninWa
How many years has it been since the release of ff VII? Quite a few, eh?

Milking a product's success means to quickly release a whole bunch of related products that capitalize on a success while it is still hot. (It is done immediately since popularity is usually fleeting.) As a result most of the secondary products are sub-standard, but their quality has nothing to do with the accusation of "milking." Once the original product's popularity wans, then the secondary products are simply forgotten.

In this case, FF7 was released many years ago. Despite those years, it is still hot and fans have been calling for more ever since. To release related products now is not called "milking a cash cow," it is called "bowing to fan pressure." If they were "milking" it as some of you say, then these products would have been released long ago, before FFVII withstood the test of time.
Yes thank you, your always a clear headed one.

For the record

Megaman=milking
Sonic= milking
Madden= milking

Final Fantasy/= milking especially since this is only the second game game in the FFXII timeline, by that definition you could say Valkyrie Profile II is milking or God of War II is.

Heres my two cents, the It's A Wonderful World one turns me off immediately because you know the characters are all just going to end up looking like this http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7.../Gackt2015.jpg and the villain will have silver hair, oh and lets not forget about the inevitable ten thousand belts and zippers. Seriously Nomura, crawl back into the black hole of talent your crawled out of and take Gackt with you if you love him so much, everything you've touched in recent years has been a pox on Squeenix's relatively good track record of storytelling and character presentation. I really hate this guy.

Finally Heroes of Mana: Why not? I'm always for strategy games and Square has made two famously good ones already that I can think of off hand (FFT and FFTA), and since the Mana series has been getting stale in my opinion, its a good direction to attempt. Now if we can just keep Square from ever releasing another SaGa game all will be good in RPG land.

And for those who seem to not like reading for some reason, it says right on the RPGamer link that the story will follow Vaan and Penelo's actions after FFXII.

FINALLY (For Real) Advent Children was about Cloud's Motorcycle and Tifa's Cell Phone.
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Old 2006-09-18, 09:48   Link #38
wsheit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama
And for those who seem to not like reading for some reason, it says right on the RPGamer link that the story will follow Vaan and Penelo's actions after FFXII.
.
If you read the IGN link, it becomes clear that NOBODY knows whether its a sequel or a prequel. Looking at the promo shots, it seems likely, though, that it's a prequel.
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Old 2006-09-18, 14:15   Link #39
Kaioshin Sama
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Well did this RPGamer link just pull its information out of its ass or what. If so I'm never using it for anything, ever in the future.
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Old 2006-09-21, 14:10   Link #40
Dark`
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According to a new article on IGN, S-E isn't really labelling this as a sequel or prequel...instead calling it a spin-off/side-story of sorts.

http://ds.ign.com/articles/733/733945p1.html

Some quotes from the article:

"To make a game suitable for inexperienced gamers, Torishima and crew planned to make something that uses the touch pen for control. They also decided to get rid of overly complicated elements from the battle system. While Torishima wouldn't provide specifics, he said we can expect a system that will allow you to defeat your enemies with minimal controls."

"Yokoyama added that the game isn't a sequel to FFXII. It's not, for instance, FFXII-2."
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[14:22] <~lucifer> since you guys won't
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[14:22] <@Dark`> =D
[14:22] <~lucifer> Then after I finish Genshiken S2 dvd rips, he's free game.
[14:22] <~lucifer> (Read: Canada's getting blown up.)
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