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Old 2006-09-18, 21:02   Link #81
gibits
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No need to get emo with me son, you have your psychologist to help you with that.
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Old 2006-09-18, 21:12   Link #82
Sazelyt
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Originally Posted by gibits
No need to get emo with me son, you have your psychologist to help you with that.
Thanks, just like the suggestion I would expect from a wandering Kisame spirit.
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Old 2006-09-19, 07:30   Link #83
Rachy
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So if Itachi said Jiraiya and him could both end in them drawing in a fight(both dying) later in the manga he says only another MS user could kill him.

hum.
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Old 2006-09-19, 08:17   Link #84
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by miss rave
So if Itachi said Jiraiya and him could both end in them drawing in a fight(both dying) later in the manga he says only another MS user could kill him.

hum

He was probably referring only to that particular case, where Itachi had very little chakra left so he was vulnerable. With some effort and concentration, he was able to activate Amatseru so he and Kisame could escape, but if he had stayed to confront Jiraiya there's a good chance that the frog stomach would've crushed them by the time he activated MS.
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Old 2006-09-19, 09:36   Link #85
Rurik
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I did not want to comment on this but I think there is a “prejudice” against characters here, Sazelyt, your observation Kisame is a mindless beast just because He just want to fight wiht no apparent analyzys of the situation is flawed.

I agree with gibits, Kisame wanting to fight, is just that he feels those Konoha Junnins are a Joke, regardless if this is true or False, Just because this villains are too cocky and decide to fight instead of flee does not means they are mindless beast, it means they are confident in their abbilities. Myabe Itachi is not confident in his abilities, or maybe Itachi wants to do his thing as quiet as possible.

You Hold on to the Kisame asking Why they are retreating, I guess you should look for the answer, the Principal one that is, which is said Naruto is not needed, My take on that Kisame maybe had an idea that Itachi must have been tired, but did not knew about Narutos current condition. Hence why he was asking in the first place.
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Old 2006-09-19, 09:41   Link #86
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Last edited by Rurik; 2006-09-19 at 10:16.
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Old 2006-09-19, 10:24   Link #87
Sazelyt
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Originally Posted by Rurik
I did not want to comment on this but I think there is a “prejudice” against characters here, Sazelyt, your observation Kisame is a mindless beast just because He just want to fight wiht no apparent analyzys of the situation is flawed.

I agree with gibits, Kisame wanting to fight, is just that he feels those Konoha Junnins are a Joke, regardless if this is true or False, Just because this villains are too cocky and decide to fight instead of flee does not means they are mindless beast, it means they are confident in their abbilities. Myabe Itachi is not confident in his abilities, or maybe Itachi wants to do his thing as quiet as possible.

You Hold on to the Kisame asking Why they are retreating, I guess you should look for the answer, the Principal one that is, which is said Naruto is not needed, My take on that Kisame maybe had an idea that Itachi must have been tired, but did not knew about Narutos current condition. Hence why he was asking in the first place.
As you said Kisame "feels" the opponents are a joke. That is why he is a mindless beast acting on his "instincts", thanks for pointing out that.

Kisame before meeting with Jiraiya seemed to give importance to Jiraiya based on his status. But, after he met, he changed his opinion, and again tried to act on his instincts. Despite knowing that Itachi has used MS three times, he still questioned why they are retreating. I guess he wasn't planning on drinking tea and checking ladies with Jiraiya. He was definitely planning to fight against Jiraiya. And I really doubt he give a damn about Naruto's condition. Of course, at the end, he acted as a tamed puppy of Itachi, but that is besides the point.
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Old 2006-09-19, 10:56   Link #88
Rurik
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt
As you said Kisame "feels" the opponents are a joke. That is why he is a mindless beast acting on his "instincts", thanks for pointing out that.
Please, So we say Zabuza was a mindless beast when he thought Sasuke and Naruto was just a Joke? Do we see Kankuro is a Mindless beast when he Tough that Konoha Shinobies were a Joke? Do we Say Gaara is a Mindless beast when He tough the No Names genin he killed were a Joke? Do we say Jiraiya is a mindless beast when He tough The No-Name chuni from rock was a Joke? Do we say Orochimaru is a mindless beast when tough Kakshi was a Joke?

AS the same as the other I mentioned, Kisame is only acting based on his confidence of his strength (not instinct as you trying to believe it is), as He is superior to those Konoha Jounins, so for him they are just Ants compared to his powers. As this was proven when Gai (the Strongest Jounin alongside Kakashi) was forced to open 6 gates to defeat a Kisame at 30%.

Quote:
Kisame before meeting with Jiraiya seemed to give importance to Jiraiya based on his status. But, after he met, he changed his opinion, and again tried to act on his instincts. Despite knowing that Itachi has used MS three times, he still questioned why they are retreating. I guess he wasn't planning on drinking tea and checking ladies with Jiraiya. He was definitely planning to fight against Jiraiya. And I really doubt he give a damn about Naruto's condition. Of course, at the end, he acted as a tamed puppy of Itachi, but that is besides the point.
Kisame was asking a question, which he did not find logical of a retreat given the situation he saw at hand, The Situation He saw is that they could had taken Naruto. So it is your Assumption that Kisame was asking based in Instinct. Maybe Itachi retreated based on Instinct….

Note than Kisame never talks about Fighting Jiraiya, Note how the first response from Itachi is Naruto is not needed, So “He was definitely planning to fight Jiraiya” is just your Assumption. As well as "He does not give a damm about Naruto" when that is his mission.

Not to mention we don’t even know If Kisame had any Idea that Itachi was already weary, Do we know if Kisame have seen Itachi doing MS like he did in this part? Did he knew that Itahci becomes a Pussy after not been able to conjure MS no more?
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Old 2006-09-19, 11:09   Link #89
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You are right(!), Kisame was intending to have a manly chat with Jiraiya, give money and girls to him so that he can be persuaded in giving Naruto to them. Are you joking? Do you really believe what you wrote?

After Itachi used MS, Kisame said something about the danger of using the eye, and after seeing Itachi used the MS 3-times , not once, not twice, but three times - and yes he knew when Itachi used against Kakashi, he knew when he Itachi used against Sasuke, and he should be definitely aware the black fire was caused by MS - he still wanted to go back. If Kisame was not aware of Itachi's condition, then he once again proves he is just like a mindless-beast.

Lastly, the strength of Gai at 6th Gate >>...> Kisame 1/3, not strength of Gai at 6th gate = Kisame at 1/3.
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Old 2006-09-19, 11:45   Link #90
gibits
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Like Rurik and I have said you are basing your assupmtions on Kisame as a "mindless beast" on your own biases (by your own admission). Evidence has shown otherwise, but you can only quote yourself as proof while me and Rurik have provided things that in fact did happen. They didn't agree with your bias so you dismiss them.

Rurik raised a good point, by your stadards Zabuza, Kankauro, Gaara, Jiraiya, and damn near anyone in this series wit any confidence is a "mindless beast".
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Old 2006-09-19, 11:56   Link #91
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
You are right(!), Kisame was intending to have a manly chat with Jiraiya, give money and girls to him so that he can be persuaded in giving Naruto to them. Are you joking? Do you really believe what you wrote?.
NO the question Is:, do you believe what you just wrote? I was asking for possibilities, Kisame talked about Dangers of using the MS, he did not talk about “You know Itachi when you use 3 times MS in a day we have to retreat, even if I’m 100%” Maybe Kisame still tough that based on what he have seen already they could still capture Naruto, Maybe including Itachi weariness, with it seems It was not of Kisame’s knowledge, Yes, even after he saw Itachi using it 3 times before. Maybe he knew that Itachi got tired when he use it 3 times, but not to appoint were he need to drop a mission completely. There are a lot of variables you don’t control to come up with the conclusion “Kisame only was thinking of Fighting”

Quote:
Lastly, the strength of Gai at 6th Gate >>...> Kisame 1/3, not strength of Gai at 6th gate = Kisame at 1/3.
I never implied any other way, I said Gai was forced to open 6 gates against 1/3 Kisame.
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Old 2006-09-19, 12:15   Link #92
Sazelyt
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Originally Posted by Rurik
NO the question Is:, do you believe what you just wrote? I was asking for possibilities, Kisame talked about Dangers of using the MS, he did not talk about “You know Itachi when you use 3 times MS in a day we have to retreat, even if I’m 100%” Maybe Kisame still tough that based on what he have seen already they could still capture Naruto, Maybe including Itachi weariness, with it seems It was not of Kisame’s knowledge, Yes, even after he saw Itachi using it 3 times before. Maybe he knew that Itachi got tired when he use it 3 times, but not to appoint were he need to drop a mission completely. There are a lot of variables you don’t control to come up with the conclusion “Kisame only was thinking of Fighting”

I never implied any other way, I said Gai was forced to open 6 gates against 1/3 Kisame.
I wrote what I believe. And considering that you are suggesting nothing but assumptions while I am directly avoiding making an assumption here, shows how much I believe (or trust) my opinion regarding Kisame's intention of what he was planning to do against Jiraiya.

When their plan of distracting Jiraiya "that would avoid a fight against him" failed, there was no option but fighting against Jiraiya to capture Naruto. You can see other options, assumptions are always possible, but the result will be the same. If you assume he was thinking of capturing Naruto without a fight, again he proves how much of a mindless beast he is. If he assumes he can capture Naruto with a nearly depleted Itachi from a Sannin after a fight, after the praises he heard from Itachi regarding Jiraiya, he again proves how much of a mindless beast (or maybe idiot) he is.

Your comment on Gai came after you talked about Konoha jounins being a joke/ants in front of the godly Kisame (as thought by Kisame). My comment was just a reminder of not using Gai's strength as a joke when compared to Kisame at 1/3.
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Old 2006-09-19, 12:37   Link #93
Rurik
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt
I wrote what I believe. And considering that you are suggesting nothing but assumptions while I am directly avoiding making an assumption here, shows how much I believe my opinion regarding Kisame's intention of what he was planning to do against Jiraiya.
You are directly avoiding making assumption here, and this is exactly what you are doing???? Your belief as strong as it could be for oyu, it is still your opinion, which is an assumption; I forgot the part where we now need to take your opinions as the only fact to an unexplained phenomenon.

Quote:
When their plan of distracting Jiraiya "that would avoid a fight against him" failed, there was no option but fighting against Jiraiya to capture Naruto. You can see other options, assumptions are always possible, but the result will be the same. If you assume he was thinking of capturing Naruto without a fight, again he proves how much of a mindless beast he is. If he assumes he can capture Naruto with a nearly depleted Itachi from a Sannin after a fight, after the praises he heard from Itachi regarding Jiraiya, he again proves how much of a mindless beast (or maybe idiot) he is.
I could think of possibilities where Kisame and Itachi in their condition could had captured Naruto without actually fighting Jiraiya there-is all in the perspective of who is making the story.

Point is, Itachi decided to retreat, because he saw the Risk was too high for something they did not even had the need of anymore. Itahci had information Kisame did not, Especifically Naruto not been needed,You are giving to much benefit to Itachi, and no benefit To Kisame.

Quote:
Your comment on Gai came after you talked about Konoha jounins being a joke/ants in front of the godly Kisame (as thought by Kisame). My comment was just a reminder of not using Gai's strength as a joke when compared to Kisame at 1/3.
Yes, I see Gai strength as a Joke- when I see a Full powered Gai been forced to almost do a Suicide Jutsu against one single Shinoby that was not even in half of his strength. To me Gai was just a Joke compared to Kisames powers.
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Old 2006-09-19, 12:42   Link #94
Zek
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Originally Posted by Rurik
Yes, I see Gai strength as a Joke- when I see a Full powered Gai been forced to almost do a Suicide Jutsu against one single Shinoby that was not even in half of his strength. To me Gai was just a Joke compared to Kisames powers.
To be fair, 6 gates did not appear to be a big deal for Gai, and he did absolutely decimate Kisame in that form. I'm sure he can go up to 7, if not 8. Also, most people like to forget the fact that Neji/Lee/Tenten did not actually need help - they all escaped on their own thanks to Neji and could have joined the fight again had Gai not finished it himself. I think if everyone present really went all-out it's very possible that Team Gai could beat full-power Kisame, unless he has some insane ability that he hasn't shown yet.
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Old 2006-09-19, 12:51   Link #95
Sazelyt
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Originally Posted by Rurik
I could think of possibilities where Kisame and Itachi in their condition could had captured Naruto without actually fighting Jiraiya there-is all in the perspective of who is making the story.

Point is, Itachi decided to retreat, because he saw the Risk was too high for something they did not even had the need of anymore. Itahci had information Kisame did not, Especifically Naruto not been needed,You are giving to much benefit to Itachi, and no benefit To Kisame.
Yes, you can think of anything within the boundary of your imagination, but apparently Kisame and Itachi did not think so. Full powered Itachi and Kisame thought of distracting Jiraiya before taking Naruto with them, cause guess why? I got it... They just wanted to make a joke against a joke ninja so that they can laugh afterwards while drinking their sake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik
Yes, I see Gai strength as a Joke- when I see a Full powered Gai been forced to almost do a Suicide Jutsu against one single Shinoby that was not even in half of his strength. To me Gai was just a Joke compared to Kisames powers.
Did I miss something? I thought Gai with opened gates represents full-powered Gai, just like MS using Itachi represents a full-powered Itachi. I guess in your opinion, Itachi without MS needs to be considered as a joke against Jiraiya and Orochimaru and etc. Good luck with your jokes, and don't forget to give whoever laughs it my greetings.
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Old 2006-09-19, 13:12   Link #96
Rurik
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Originally Posted by Zek
To be fair, 6 gates did not appear to be a big deal for Gai, and he did absolutely decimate Kisame in that form. I'm sure he can go up to 7, if not 8. Also, most people like to forget the fact that Neji/Lee/Tenten did not actually need help - they all escaped on their own thanks to Neji and could have joined the fight again had Gai not finished it himself. I think if everyone present really went all-out it's very possible that Team Gai could beat full-power Kisame, unless he has some insane ability that he hasn't shown yet.
Of course he Owned Kisame at that stage, but before it, he was getting creamed, And team Gai here is not really a point, I never even touch that dial, that this team Can beat Kisame alone, could be possible. it's really a one on one comparison; I will take a line form a movie and applied it to this:

This is Gai: the fool who thought he killed Kisame


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
Yes, you can think of anything within the boundary of your imagination, but apparently Kisame and Itachi did not think so.
Apparently, they tough that before Seen Jiraiya, the comment you are questioning came after Seen Jiraiya. Apparently, Kisame changed his mind or maybe even analyzed better the situation than Itachi. There are lot of thing we don’t know to be concluding: “Kisame was thinking of Fight” and “Kisame is a mindless beast.”

Quote:
Full powered Itachi and Kisame thought of distracting Jiraiya before taking Naruto with them, cause guess why? I got it... They just wanted to make a joke against a joke ninja so that they can laugh afterwards while drinking their sake.
Correction, and already weary Itachi as he already did a MS (remember how you made empahis of 3 MS, not 2?) and a Bunch of Jutsus including Kage Bushin..

They made the distraction, because it was A) better to take Naruto that way-If you can avoid a confrontation, why not? B) The were not even aware on how strong Jiraiya was really, C) etc etc etc. As I said, there are a lot of Variable you don’t control, don’t act as if your Opinion can be the only possible reason.

Quote:
Did I miss something? I thought Gai with opened gates represents full-powered Gai, just like MS using Itachi represents a full-powered Itachi. I guess in your opinion, Itachi without MS needs to be considered as a joke against Jiraiya and Orochimaru and etc. Good luck with your jokes, and don't forget to give whoever laughs it my greetings.
.

You are not reading My post:

Why Gai, the god, need to unleash the power of his Gates, to a dummy Kisame? I’m not saying Gai gates is not part of his strength, But every time I’m referring to Gai, is without doing a Jutsu that was 2 Gates Shy of been a suicide Jutsu, So once again, Gai Was A Joke compared to Kisame, when Gai needed to open Gates to Defeat someone who was not even Kisame.

You mentioned Itachi, Do we know if Itachi really needs MS jutsu to be on Par with Jiraiya or Oro??? No we don’t.
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Old 2006-09-19, 13:43   Link #97
Sazelyt
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Originally Posted by Rurik
Apparently, they tough that before Seen Jiraiya, the comment you are questioning came after Seen Jiraiya. Apparently, Kisame changed his mind or maybe even analyzed better the situation than Itachi. There are lot of thing we don’t know to be concluding: “Kisame was thinking of Fight” and “Kisame is a mindless beast.”
Yes, and after seeing Jiraiya, with one look, they found out that he is actually a joke (!) - actually they is wrong, the almighty intelligent Kisame found out that Jiraiya was a joke(!). And Kisame is really a better analyzer than Itachi (!), so much that, he listens Itachi's order as a tamed puppy listens to its master's orders. Itachi was the one who made the decisions to avoid a fight, whereas Kisame is the one who questioned such decisions and made the comments of cutting/beating/fighting/etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik
Correction, and already weary Itachi as he already did a MS (remember how you made empahis of 3 MS, not 2?) and a Bunch of Jutsus including Kage Bushin..
Right, and that makes a really "great" difference. Even using one MS is enough to be cautious, but two more MS, Kisame automatically assumes they need to be in a less cautious mode.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik
You are not reading My post:

Why Gai, the god, need to unleash the power of his Gates, to a dummy Kisame? I’m not saying Gai gates is not part of his strength, But every time I’m referring to Gai, is without doing a Jutsu that was 2 Gates Shy of been a suicide Jutsu, So once again, Gai Was A Joke compared to Kisame, when Gai needed to open Gates to Defeat someone who was not even Kisame.

You mentioned Itachi, Do we know if Itachi really needs MS jutsu to be on Par with Jiraiya or Oro??? No we don’t.
Believe me I read your post. And seeing that I am not the only one who questioned your comment regarding Gai being a joke, I think I didn't get the comment wrong. If Gai opens 8 gates and dies after using that, that is a suicidial jutsu. If he walks on perfectly fine after opening 6 gate, then it is not. You seem to be mixing the capability of a 13-14 year old one (or two) year trained Lee versus 15+ years trained Gai.

Again, you make the impression that 6 gate opened Gai is very similar in strength to a Kisame-doll. Gai's jutsu is no different than MS in my opinion, even if it is 2/3 Kisame or maybe whole Kisame, it would have still worked. And that does not make Gai any weaker compared to the original Kisame.

For Itachi, I think we know enough that his MS is the key reason for Oro to consider him stronger (11 year old Itachi with MS versus Oro). And do we really know if Gai wouldn't have beaten Kisame's doll without opening the 6th gate? No we don't, cause we didn't see how the fight would have continued in another way.
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Old 2006-09-19, 14:18   Link #98
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
Yes, and after seeing Jiraiya, with one look, they found out that he is actually a joke (!) - actually they is wrong, the almighty intelligent Kisame found out that Jiraiya was a joke(!). And Kisame is really a better analyzer than Itachi (!), so much that, he listens Itachi's order as a tamed puppy listens to its master's orders. Itachi was the one who made the decisions to avoid a fight, whereas Kisame is the one who questioned such decisions and made the comments of cutting/beating/fighting/etc.
Please, the one giving orders, does not means is the one who can make the most logic decisions, he is just the one in charge. (Certain Presidents???)

Also if oyu don't like my opinions or you feel treaten by them, don't reply, but your mocking is uncalled for, as Im not doing the same to you, AS that how much I respect you stance.

As I said, and it seems you have hate this reallity, (And mock it also if you like):

“there are a lot of Variable you don’t control, don’t act as if your Opinion can be the only possible reason.”

So my opinions about why Kisame was asking about retreat are good as yours, the only difference is that mines don’t have a sense of hatred towards an specific Character.

That why I said you are giving to much benefit to Itachi, maybe the one who tough wrong was Itachi, and he is just a chicke,n which is was make him re-think doing something risky to a point where he will not do it. also Point me out where Kisame made the comments of cutting/beating/fighting/etc.

Quote:
Right, and that makes a really "great" difference. Even using one MS is enough to be cautious, but two more MS, Kisame automatically assumes they need to be in a less cautious mode.
Do I need to repeat quotes from me now?: -Kisame talked about Dangers of using the MS, he did not talk about “You know Itachi when you use 3 times MS in a day we have to retreat, even if I’m 100%”-

Not to mention, You avoided the point, You talked about Full powered Itachi, I pointed out your mistake, as you fanatically made emphasis, as it was 3, like this one:

Quote:
….and after seeing Itachi used the MS 3-times , not once, not twice, but three times

Quote:
Believe me I read your post. And seeing that I am not the only one who questioned your comment regarding Gai being a joke, I think I didn't get the comment wrong. If Gai opens 8 gates and dies after using that, that is a suicidial jutsu. If he walks on perfectly fine after opening 6 gate, then it is not. You seem to be mixing the capability of a 13-14 year old one (or two) year trained Lee versus 15+ years trained Gai.
Not only mines, but not even the other person Observations?,Zek was talking about Gai with 6 gates open and Gai + the entire Team Gai, and not Gai alone. I always referred to Gai without Opening Gates, Just as Kakashi did not need to use MS to fight Itachi and he only needed Narutos help to kill his Dummy.

Quote:
Again, you make the impression that 6 gate opened Gai is very similar in strength to a Kisame-doll. Gai's jutsu is no different than MS in my opinion, even if it is 2/3 Kisame or maybe whole Kisame, it would have still worked. And that does not make Gai any weaker compared to the original Kisame.
NO, If you are getting that impression read my posts again, I’m carefully separating Gai, and Gai after opening the 6 Gates, that why I have always said He was forced to open 6 Gates.

And no, You don’t know if a full power Kisame would had been defeated by 6 gates Gai, that you assumption based on your bias.

Quote:
For Itachi, I think we know enough that his MS is the key reason for Oro to consider him stronger (11 year old Itachi with MS versus Oro). And do we really know if Gai wouldn't have beaten Kisame's doll without opening the 6th gate? No we don't, cause we didn't see how the fight would have continued in another way.
No, we don’t know enough to say the MS is the reason why Oro feels inferior to Itachi.

About Gai, read the Manga we do know: His words before Opening the Gates: “there is no other way” So no, Gai alone could not defeat Kisame 1/3 without opening the gates.
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Last edited by Rurik; 2006-09-19 at 14:30.
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Old 2006-09-19, 14:24   Link #99
Sabaku Kyu
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Wow.This turned into a really intense discussion. Please, allow a humble n00b to state his opinion about a few things.

Regarding Kisame's personality:

First of all, I'm going to make a reference to (please bear with me) DBZ, b/c Kishimoto has stated that he was influenced heavily by that manga. To me, it seems that Itachi and Kisame's relationship is heavily based on that of Vegeta and Nappa. Where you have a large, intimidiating and powerful individual (Kisame=Nappa) paired with a smaller but somehow stronger and more intelligent individual (Itachi=Vegeta). The larger of the two is more brutish and eager to fight, but that eagerness also causes him to make rash decisions and mistakes that even weaker enemies can take advantage of. Nappa pwned all his enemies, but was almost defeated couple times when he got too cocky. Now I don't think Kisame is anywhere near as stupid Nappa. He's not a "mindless beast", but he is overconfident. Even if he realized his own limitations against Jiraiya, he was too confident in Itachi's abilities. Just the fact that he suggested to stay and fight when they were being overtaken by a fatal, nigh-inescapable jutsu demonstrates this.


Regarding Kisame's strength:

Quote:
Originally Posted by gibits
Kimase 33% > Gai 33%
Kisame 33% < Gai 66%-80%
Kisame 100% > Gai 100%
When Itachi and Kisame referred to their clones as being 33% they were talking in terms of chakra. As we know, the amount of chakra is not directly linked to strength. More chakra provides an advantage because it allows greater stamina, performance of better jutsu etc, but it doesn't increase attributes like speed, agility or physical strength unless the nature of the chakra is special (like the Kyuubi's) or the chakra is being manipulated in a special way (Tsunade's strength). If it were a simple matter of more chakra=greater strength, Kisame should be stronger than Itachi because he supposedly has a greater amount of chakra. But that is not the case.


Regarding Gai's strength

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik
Why Gai, the god, need to unleash the power of his Gates, to a dummy Kisame? I’m not saying Gai gates is not part of his strength, But every time I’m referring to Gai, is without doing a Jutsu that was 2 Gates Shy of been a suicide Jutsu, So once again, Gai Was A Joke compared to Kisame, when Gai needed to open Gates to Defeat someone who was not even Kisame.
Opening all 8 gates is a suicide jutsu, but it is obvious that opening 6 gates is not a last-resort attack for Gai. He used it because he wanted to defeat his foe quickly so he could hurry to help Naruto's group. He wasn't even fatigued after the fight so why would it be assumed that he was pushing his body to it's limits? The way he obliterated that clone, he probably could've done the job at 4 or 5 gates. As it's been said before, we don't know how powerful opening the other two gates will make him, but if the 8th gate makes him Kage level, wouldn't it be safe to assume that 7th gate would at least put him at Kisame's level?. This isn't Gai fanboyism or Kisame-hatin'. I'm just saying that to assume that Gai was on his last leg while Kisame was only using the tip of his power seems an underestimation of Gai's strength. Whew, that's all

Last edited by Sabaku Kyu; 2006-09-19 at 14:40.
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Old 2006-09-19, 14:38   Link #100
Rurik
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu
When Itachi and Kisame referred to their clones as being 33% they were talking in terms of chakra. As we know, the amount of chakra is not directly linked to strength. More chakra provides an advantage because it allows greater stamina, performance of better jutsu etc, but it doesn't increase attributes like speed, agility or physical strength unless the nature of the chakra is special (like the Kyuubi's) or the chakra is being manipulated in a special way (Tsunade's strength). If it were a simple matter of more chakra=greater strength, Kisame should be stronger than Itachi because he supposedly has a greater amount of chakra. But that is not the case.
Tehy were talking that there abbilities were limited, reason why Itachi could not do the MS to beggin wiht, it was just not only Chakra.


Quote:
Opening all 8 gates is a suicide jutsu, but it is obvious that opening 6 gates is not a last-resort attack for Gai. He used it because he wanted to defeat his foe quickly so he could hurry to help Naruto's group. He wasn't even fatigued after the fight so why would it be assumed that he was pushing his body to it's limits? The way he obliterated that clone, he probably could've done the job at 4 or 5 gates.
Well, the Manga disagree with that, Gai said: "there is no other way". How I mentioned Gates I’m not talking about the physical damage it could do to Gai (because it does) I’m talking that Gai was forced to Open the Gates to defeat Kisame.

Quote:
I'm just saying that to assume that Gai was on his last leg while Kisame was only using the tip of his power seems an underestimation of Gai's strength. Whew, that's all
The same goes with the underestimation of Kisames real strength that is unknown to us right now, but as Akatsuki goes, and the small display His 1/3 self make, Kisames is in a different level that Gai.
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