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Old 2009-12-29, 15:36   Link #961
Daiz
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If you're dealing with 480p material, just do a CRF 16 encode and if it turns out in the 140-260 MB range, you're good to go!

If it's 720p try something like CRF 17-19.

There's really no reason at all to do 2-pass these days unless you really, really want to have exactly the same filesize for everything (which is stupid, since it can hurt the quality of some episodes and might be overkill for other).
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Old 2009-12-29, 22:55   Link #962
Zergrinch
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Hm, interesting proposition you got there, Daiz. All the stuff I read sing praises for two-pass over one-pass encoding. I'm all for saving time, definitely, especially if what you say is true. I shall give it a shot.

Thanks for the feedback, TheFluff and Daiz.
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Old 2009-12-30, 00:01   Link #963
Dark Shikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zergrinch View Post
Hm, interesting proposition you got there, Daiz. All the stuff I read sing praises for two-pass over one-pass encoding.
All the stuff you read is written by idiots.

Also, the general rule is that 99% of "encoding guides" consist almost entirely of cargo-cult options added by people who have no idea what they're doing.
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Old 2009-12-30, 00:30   Link #964
Quarkboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
All the stuff you read is written by idiots.

Also, the general rule is that 99% of "encoding guides" consist almost entirely of cargo-cult options added by people who have no idea what they're doing.
I haven't done a 2-pass encode with x264 in a long time.

Then again I'm doing silly things like setting qpmin to 4
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Old 2009-12-30, 02:24   Link #965
Dark Shikari
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Originally Posted by Quarkboy View Post
I haven't done a 2-pass encode with x264 in a long time.

Then again I'm doing silly things like setting qpmin to 4
Nothing silly about that if you're trying to keep absurdly subtle dither because you won't run gradfun2db on playback
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Old 2009-12-30, 07:18   Link #966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
Nothing silly about that if you're trying to keep absurdly subtle dither because you won't run gradfun2db on playback
Actually it's more like CRF = 8 doesn't look much better when qpmin is 10.

Basically it's the answer to the question: "I have a 50 gigabyte uncompressed raw I need to send overseas..."
Well, I could use something lossless but we're still talking 10 gigs or so...

a reasonable CRF like 14 gets me macroblocks in the 20s sometimes and ends up with ~1 gig files, but 2-3 gig is not an issue, so why not preserve what I can with going way lower? Especially when it's going to get re-encoded anyway.
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Old 2009-12-31, 07:55   Link #967
getfresh
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It seems like this thread is starting to go in the standard asuki forum direction again, i.e. encoding and typesetting. Both have numerous threads already. Some variety in the questions asked and discussions engaged in would make the thread more inviting to subbers with specialized skills which are unrelated to Encode/TS. Not trying to pick a fight at all or get anyones nickers in a twist. Simply a suggestion from someone who would be interested to read such a thread. Sorry for posting off topic.
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Old 2010-01-09, 22:36   Link #968
Zergrinch
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I'm trying to create a profile in the patched meGUI to work with what was suggested (CRF instead of two -passes). I'd like to check if the settings are fine:

program --profile high --preset veryslow --tune animation --crf 16 --thread-input --bframes 5 --ref 6 --vbv-maxrate 40000 --output "output" "input"
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Old 2010-01-10, 00:27   Link #969
Dark Shikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zergrinch View Post
I'm trying to create a profile in the patched meGUI to work with what was suggested (CRF instead of two -passes). I'd like to check if the settings are fine:

program --profile high --preset veryslow --tune animation --crf 16 --thread-input --bframes 5 --ref 6 --vbv-maxrate 40000 --output "output" "input"
maxrate does nothing if a bufsize isn't specified.

--thread-input is on by default.

--profile high is on by default.
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Old 2010-01-10, 08:28   Link #970
Zergrinch
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Alright, tweaked the advanced settings in the x264 configuration GUI, so the final setting is:

program --preset veryslow --tune animation --crf 16 --bframes 3 --ref 6 --output "output" "input"

For a test 21 minute episode, stripped of the opening, it produces a file that's approximately 100 MB larger than the old settings I used. I guess I can live with 300 MB encodes... not doing two passes really speeds up encoding, and I guess it frees me from making arbitrary decisions about the proper bitrate to use.

Thanks again, folks!
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Old 2010-01-10, 14:50   Link #971
Dark Shikari
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Or just don't use such a low CRF value.
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Old 2010-01-10, 14:57   Link #972
Daiz
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CRF 16 isn't that low with mbtree, you know.
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Old 2010-01-10, 16:57   Link #973
Dark Shikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daiz View Post
CRF 16 isn't that low with mbtree, you know.
No, it's still "that low".
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Old 2010-01-10, 19:35   Link #974
jpc
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It depends on the source, but I have seen cases where crf 16 was too high and I had to resort to crf 14 to hit a filesize approaching anywhere near 300 MB

In the case for Zergrinch, it seems that crf 16 is actually a tad too low, so 17 or 18 might be a better option if the filesize is larger than expected
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Old 2010-01-10, 20:00   Link #975
jfs
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Why do you keep talking about file size when it would be more appropriate to talk about perceived quality? ("Can my eyes see any problems during casual viewing?")
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Old 2010-01-10, 21:35   Link #976
Dark Shikari
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If you want to completely ignore quality and instead get a specific filesize, why in the world are you using CRF?
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Old 2010-01-11, 06:39   Link #977
jpc
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I agree, perceived quality is the most important thing where bitrates and filesizes can vary.

But for typical 24 minute anime the bitrates sufficient to achieve "good perceptual quality" tends to fall around the 300 MB mark, although it depends entirely on the source how low the bitrate (thus video filesize) can go before quality becomes undesirable.

I only used the filesize as an initial point of reference, but I should have made myself clearer:
after hitting a desired filesize using crf (typically the filesize expected to be obtained using 2-pass), different crf values should be tried until "perceived quality" falls below a certain threshold (typically the encoders own standards of "minimum perceptual quality").

This way, encodes will have sufficient quality whilst retaining the benefits of using crf (namely smaller bitrates AKA filesizes).

Although the time-consumption required for multiple crf encods in this way suggests 2-pass would be a better option to begin with.

I am not a x264 guru by any stretch of the imagination, but I found that this method usually works for me.
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Old 2010-01-15, 01:09   Link #978
fireshark
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uhhhhhhhhh the benefits of CRF are consistent quality, not smaller filesizes. So you just choose some decent CRF and encode your file already.
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Old 2010-01-17, 04:33   Link #979
CryptWizard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfs View Post
perceived quality? ("Can my eyes see any problems during casual viewing?")
But to some people it's more like "Do my eyes see the file size then think it will be shit".
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Old 2010-01-17, 16:20   Link #980
tz2012
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hi im trying to put the [gg] sub of Bakemonogatari onto the [qIIq-THORA] blue
ray versions of it and have been using Aegisub and MkvMerge Gui to try and achieve that.


i load the .ass files into Aegisub after i put the [gg] episode of bmg into mkvmerg gui and then only check the subtitles then mux it (so splitting the text from the video/audio).


then i have to go through the episode and retime the subs with the audio because the blue ray versions have extras so the subs get out of time


ive gotten the gg subs to align almost perfectly with the blue rays but now i want to add the [qIIq] typesetting for all the signs because gg didnt bother to sub those.


i can load the qIIq subs into the same aegisub ive been working on with gg subs and the signs will show on the episode once i mux everything but it has the gg formats for the letters which becomes out of place because the words become oversized for some reason.


how do i get my desired version of the blue rays to have gg as dialogue and qIIq as typesetting. keeping the formats of both subtitiles the original formats?
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