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Old 2007-04-12, 12:30   Link #821
Nemo_N
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Separated at birth: Konata's seiyuu, Hirano Aya, has one there, too (see my avatar). Now we know why she just had to play this role.
Wow. Quite a coincidence. I noticed Aya's mole before, but didn't connect both until now.
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Old 2007-04-12, 12:38   Link #822
LCeh
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Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Separated at birth: Konata's seiyuu, Hirano Aya, has one there, too (see my avatar). Now we know why she just had to play this role.
Call me slow, but I actually didn't recognize her voice at all. I think that's pretty impressive since I thought her voice was quite recognizable, like in Sumomo, I was able to spot her right away. But this time, even after knowing it was her that played Kona-chan, I still couldn't really tell. Good job Aya-chan.
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Old 2007-04-12, 12:51   Link #823
kenjiharima
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Separated at birth: Konata's seiyuu, Hirano Aya, has one there, too (see my avatar). Now we know why she just had to play this role.
Not just that the way she smiles on your avatar seems catlike too :3
Maybe she's a little older now that's why the voice changed? Nahh...I think she developed something similar to Bugs Bunny's voice actor to make a unique voice for Kona-chan's character. Can't wait for episode 2!!!
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Old 2007-04-12, 13:00   Link #824
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Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
Eh, that's kind of an odd comparison to make.
Particularly when you have ero-games, and then you have ero-games; you have those that make for great stories like Kanon and AIR, and then you have those that's basically just fodder for a fapfest and not much else....wait. I just described Bible Black. >_<

Nevertheless, after thinking about it for a day, I think I finally realized just what it was that was bugging me about KyoAni's Lucky Star, or more specifically Episode 1. You see, it's not that I didn't like the gags, after all, Lucky Star is all about the gags, and I can actually understand a good deal of the content.....

However, it's the execution of the whole thing itself that I'm not so hot about. And it's really all down to two things;

1) The food talk. I mean, it's fine as a continuous sequence if we're talking about several day's worth of 4-koma in the papers (or the magazines, I don't know where Lucky Star publishes), but to turn it into six minutes of continuous talk about nothing but food, it just wearies me out, to put it mildly. Would it kill KyoAni's storyboarder, whoever she is, to cut the whole damned thing into more managable pieces, and sprinkle them throughout the episode instead of concentrating an entire chunk of it in the beginning? >_<

2) The fact that they don't have.....I'm not sure what they're called, but I call them "cut-to-the-next-scene" graphics.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about: Bow Wow Episode 1, 01:52-01:53, 04:36-04:37, and 05:08-05:09.

Now, maybe it's just because I'm not the most quick-witted bastard around to put it nicely, but from what I see, KyoAni tried to mesh together the seperate gags into one continuous slice-of-life sequence.....except that sometimes, it's just too jarring when I realize that the next gag had already commenced even before I had time to digest the previous one. Too many times I am left thinking, "...wait, it's the next one already?"

With the "cut-to-the-next-scene" sequences that Bow Wow employed, at least I get a second to prepare myself for the next gag, something I wished Lucky Star did. As it stood though, the pacing of Episode 1 shifted so quickly from one gag to another, that I'm left trailing behind a lot of the time, and it just detracts from my enjoyment of the content in the first place. >_<



LOL, it's strange that we have almost completely opposite views of the pacing of Lucky Star.
NO! No Storyboard, No Pacing! Moe Moe, More Important Damnit! *Smashes Table and fork flys across the room* Grah Not Enough Time To Get More Moe In, Need Think Less More Moe.

That aside I'd like to talk about one of the things that bothers me about Kyoto Animation. There seeming need to have every product they do be as emasculating as possible. So if we start with the series that made them huge, Haruhi is loud a loud bossy teenager with breasts that seem to get more shapely with each passing episode, and the men, specifically Kyon the more normal and level headed male and Itsuki who is arguably as level headed are forced to submit to her will. Then we have Yuki who is arguably just as powerful as Haruhi and so yeah, the men are pathetic. Then we move to Kanon where all the girls are like unrealistic angels in terms of their nature and then we have the one male presence in the entire series in Yuuchi who I think has a good shot at winning the annual biggest douche in the universe award. So again Kyoto Animation attempts to show that men suck and we've got men are weak and douches, oh and apparentely always wrong. Then we move on to Lucky Star and I learn from Konata that Foreigners are evil and she proceeds to beat the crap out of a western male. So now we are not only apparently subordinate to women and douches, but now we are evil "Evil Male Gaijin" and need to be taught a lesson by lolis. So my question to Kyoto Animation is.... Why do you hate my demographic so damn much?

I guess then if the trend continues I am to assume that Clannad is about a white American jerkass males relationship with the most moe and angelic looking loli ever and him getting put in his place and pummeled every episode by her to the cheers of the fanbase?
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Old 2007-04-12, 13:07   Link #825
kenjiharima
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Well one man or delinquent doesn't suck, though the anime he's in was not made by Kyoto Animation
Spoiler:


The only thing that 4koma anime lacks are good men or boys for the girls like Azumanga Daioh's wierd teacher though he has beautiful MOE wife and kid, but hey who wants men when you have the MOE MOE MOE girls!!!
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Last edited by kenjiharima; 2007-04-12 at 13:10. Reason: typo error
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Old 2007-04-12, 13:09   Link #826
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Originally Posted by kenjiharima View Post
The only thing that 4koma anime lacks are good men or boys for the girls like Azumanga Daioh's wierd teacher though he has becaustyful MOE wife and kid, but hey who wants men when you have the MOE MOE MOE girls!!!
Isn't there a man ogling school girls in the OP?
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Old 2007-04-12, 13:10   Link #827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama View Post
NO! No Storyboard, No Pacing! Moe Moe, More Important Damnit! *Smashes Table and fork flys across the room* Grah Not Enough Time To Get More Moe In, Need Think Less More Moe.

That aside I'd like to talk about one of the things that bothers me about Kyoto Animation. There seeming need to have every product they do be as emasculating as possible. So if we start with the series that made them huge, Haruhi is loud a loud bossy teenager with breasts that seem to get more shapely with each passing episode, and the men, specifically Kyon the more normal and level headed male and Itsuki who is arguably as level headed are forced to submit to her will. Then we have Yuki who is arguably just as powerful as Haruhi and so yeah, the men are pathetic. Then we move to Kanon where all the girls are like unrealistic angels in terms of their nature and then we have the one male presence in the entire series in Yuuchi who I think has a good shot at winning the annual biggest douche in the universe award. So again Kyoto Animation attempts to show that men suck and we've got men are weak and douches, oh and apparentely always wrong. Then we move on to Lucky Star and I learn from Konata that Foreigners are evil and she proceeds to beat the crap out of a western male. So now we are not only apparently subordinate to women and douches, but now we are evil "Evil Male Gaijin" and need to be taught a lesson by lolis. So my question to Kyoto Animation is.... Why do you hate my demographic so damn much?
And what about their work on Full Metal Panic: the Second Raid......? There's enough tough guys in that show.
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Old 2007-04-12, 13:12   Link #828
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Umm, Kaioshin, I don't know how to put this, but...

What about, "Welcome to the world of anime!"? Female characters are the lead of most shows out there, and there are lots of shows out there (especially harems) that portray male leads as a loser/dork/whatever.

Besides, I must disagree on the portrayal you seem to have seen in Yuuichi and Kyon. I didn't see them portrayed as jerks. In fact, Yuuichi had a hell of development and wasn't the jerk of the show for the most part. And, then again, I'm forced to remind you of what bishoujo games, like Kanon, are all about. Women!
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Old 2007-04-12, 13:12   Link #829
kenjiharima
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we still dunno if he's character will be developed well along with the MOE girls of Lucky Star, so let's stay tuned for his development. But I really don't care about him let's just see the MOE girls especially Kona-chan.
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Old 2007-04-12, 13:14   Link #830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkchibi07 View Post
And what about their work on Full Metal Panic: the Second Raid......? There's enough tough guys in that show.
Quite possibly the last time that ever happens in a Kyoto Animation work too. There having way too successful a run with the moe gig to return to that anytime soon if ever. Guess Full Metal Panic Film Partners will pass the torch to another animation studio again like they did with Gonzo.

@Wanderingknight: Yeah in the Haruhi books Kyon was much better and I'm sure unvoiced Yuuchi was a fairly nice guy, but Sugita Tomokazu has the uncanny ability to make every character he does come across as a complete and unmitigated jerkoff. I don't know how he does it, but it could serve him really well in the right role. He should be playing villain characters that get under your skin, not a harem guy. That being said, yes recently females have been the lead in most shows recently and the men are now fairly weak. I guess its revenge for all the times the female characters got slapped around in Gundam and 70's/80's mecha anime, which would be a hell of a lot. I think they have about 20 years to make up for now. Better get a helmet guy's its going to be all 12 rounds.
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Old 2007-04-12, 13:18   Link #831
cmage
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama View Post
Quite possibly the last time that ever happens in a Kyoto Animation work too. There having way too successful a run with the moe gig to return to that anytime soon if ever. Guess Full Metal Panic Film Partners will pass the torch to another animation studio again like they did with Gonzo.
I hope not. I wanna see the rest of the novels animated by KyoAni.

So, um...I'm a girl, so I don't completely get the mo~e thing. Is Lucky Star that moe? Maybe this is like how I can never tell the difference between shoujo and seinen 'cause they both have cute girls. >.<
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Old 2007-04-12, 13:21   Link #832
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Quote:
Maybe this is like how I can never tell the difference between shoujo and seinen 'cause they both have cute girls. >.<
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

Shoujo = something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from seinen. Artwork, for starters.

Take the highly popular NANA, for example. Shoujo character designs recognizable from miles away. Now compare it with Lucky Star, seinen character designs recognizable from miles away. And now you'll start seeing the differences.

Then again, there's the matter of the themes they touch. Shoujo is directed at girls, while seinen is directed at young men. Themes will certainly be different, by market's standards.

Quote:
That being said, yes recently females have been the lead in most shows recently
I wouldn't say recently. I would prefer to say since the broadcasting of Sailor Moon
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Old 2007-04-12, 13:23   Link #833
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Originally Posted by cmage View Post
I hope not. I wanna see the rest of the novels animated by KyoAni.

So, um...I'm a girl, so I don't completely get the mo~e thing. Is Lucky Star that moe? Maybe this is like how I can never tell the difference between shoujo and seinen 'cause they both have cute girls. >.<
I'll let the others answer that as I don't want to get lynched. Really though, not really, people are kind of exagerating it a bit I think. Moe has become a desired commodity so people want it in any capacity so they go looking for instances of it, but I think its something we can do without. As far as I can tell the show is predominantly comedy and the Moe element is deliberately played for laughs as a bit of self-parodying/self-deprication by Kyoto Animation.

Sailor Moon eh: Sailor Senshi get kicked around by the enemy in still images. *Cue jazzy music* "I am Tuxedo Kamen, Encouraging Speech" The Girls: "Yay Tuxedo Kamen, So Handsome". And this must occur before the Sailor Senshi can do any real damage.
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Old 2007-04-12, 13:24   Link #834
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

Shoujo = something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from seinen. Artwork, for starters.

Take the highly popular NANA, for example. Shoujo character designs recognizable from miles away. Now compare it with Lucky Star, seinen character designs recognizable from miles away. And now you'll start seeing the differences.

Then again, there's the matter of the themes they touch. Shoujo is directed at girls, while seinen is directed at young men. Themes will certainly be different, by market's standards.
Eh, I always thought NANA was josei.

My problem is when it gets to the cute character designs and content. Magical girl stuff like Cardcaptor Sakura has cute character designs, as does Azumanga Daioh. I find both entertaining, so when I heard that AzuDai is seinen, I went . I don't see the appeal for guys in watching girls go to school.

Yeah, I definitely don't get the guy mentality....
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Old 2007-04-12, 13:29   Link #835
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Ok, this is going a bit offtopic, but this'll be my last post on the shoujo/seinen stuff.

Quote:
Magical girl stuff like Cardcaptor Sakura has cute character designs, as does Azumanga Daioh.
Note the difference in the stereotypes of the design. Cardcaptor Sakura retains many of the classical shoujo stereotypes (sparkling eyes, wide-shoulder men, bishounen faces for most of men), and they touch subjects that most men (by market's standards) would find unappealing.

AzuDai is often classified as seinen because it gives a nostalgic feeling to people who are past their highschool age, as far as I'm concerned. And, their design isn't certainly shoujo. And there's Chiyo-chan moeness all over it, so yeah, it'd classify as seinen .

(PS: The difference between josei and shoujo is very slight, IMO).
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Old 2007-04-12, 13:32   Link #836
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Nana is definately a girl's show.

as for Moe, yeah, I also dont like it when they try to force Moe on characters. but some characters have true Moe like maybe Nanoha, Fate, and Vita from Nanoha A's, or Kozue from mahoraba, among others.
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Old 2007-04-12, 13:33   Link #837
Proto
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That aside I'd like to talk about one of the things that bothers me about Kyoto Animation. There seeming need to have every product they do be as emasculating as possible. So if we start with the series that made them huge, Haruhi is loud a loud bossy teenager with breasts that seem to get more shapely with each passing episode, and the men, specifically Kyon the more normal and level headed male and Itsuki who is arguably as level headed are forced to submit to her will. Then we have Yuki who is arguably just as powerful as Haruhi and so yeah, the men are pathetic. Then we move to Kanon where all the girls are like unrealistic angels in terms of their nature and then we have the one male presence in the entire series in Yuuchi who I think has a good shot at winning the annual biggest douche in the universe award. So again Kyoto Animation attempts to show that men suck and we've got men are weak and douches, oh and apparentely always wrong. Then we move on to Lucky Star and I learn from Konata that Foreigners are evil and she proceeds to beat the crap out of a western male. So now we are not only apparently subordinate to women and douches, but now we are evil "Evil Male Gaijin" and need to be taught a lesson by lolis. So my question to Kyoto Animation is.... Why do you hate my demographic so damn much?
Hmm... well, I may be misunderstanding or completely missing your point, but aren't you confusing the work of the animators and the work of the writters/mangakas? Apart from adapting the story from its original media they have little to no hand in the actual content. Some may say that this makes for better adaptations, some may say that this just demonstrates that they don't have any imagination at all, but in either case I don't think you can't blame them for the story and characters of the series they animate. You could contest their taste for choosing series though ^_^
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Old 2007-04-12, 13:34   Link #838
DannoHung
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Hmm, thoughts: It was amusing, but also kinda boring.

The food gags in the first 8 minutes just didn't have really good punchlines. It's the first episode though, so I guess they were going for more "establish character personality" jokes than stuff that was actually supposed to be, y'know, funny.
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Old 2007-04-12, 13:36   Link #839
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Just to destroy the humor... the punch line is Kona doing a discussion loop about choco-cones at the end. Other parallels that come to mind are those rambling jokes George Burns would tell - minutes of mild disorientation while the listener wondered where the hell he was going and then a mild gag that would startle the listener and they'd laugh.
Humor is sometimes thought of as the "execution of the unexpected" that triggers the social bonding experience of shared discomfort release called laughter.

There, now I've killed the specimen and dissected it.
Excellent analysis of the scene. I think there is a bit of teasing the viewer going on here, playing upon the audience expectation that the scene is going to move on and instead it keeps going...until the conversation finally hits the full circle point. That's a really subtle form of humor as it depends partly on whether the audience knows it is being deliberately led on or not.

That said, I still think it's a fun conversation, and my roommate and I often have these kind of talks, so I really empathize.

Quote:
As I said, I really *liked* the a.f.k. translation work except for what I'll call "overtranslation" of the food, little of which is alien to anyone who has ever looked at a teriyaki bar menu (sukiyaki, yakitori, etc) (I notice they used "natto" rather than "fermented bean curd" though they used the term "parent child bowl" instead of the japanese term, it got kind of inconsistent). This is PURELY a personal preferential difference though.
Hm, haven't had a chance to look at the AFK version just yet (but am eager to do so), but I'm of a mixed mind on that issue. This is all strictly uber-IMHO, but I personally feel that foreign otaku ought to as a matter of course develop a good knowledge of Japanese cuisine...preferably first hand experience, but otherwise from context in manga, anime, and dorama. However, I know that Japanese food can be really, well, foreign to new fans in particular and even daunting or very "alien".

Generally speaking I think in these cases, the people familiar with the food in question will already know what it is, so beyond that, it's a matter of whether the translator wants to simplify to keep the flow, add liner notes (IMHO preferably after the program so as to not clutter text over the animation), or stick to the literal original "untranslated" names and leave it to the fans to look up the stuff they don't know on their own (wikipedia is your friend!). I think each approach has its own merit, really.
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Old 2007-04-12, 13:38   Link #840
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
Ok, this is going a bit offtopic, but this'll be my last post on the shoujo/seinen stuff.



Note the difference in the stereotypes of the design. Cardcaptor Sakura retains many of the classical shoujo stereotypes (sparkling eyes, wide-shoulder men, bishounen faces for most of men), and they touch subjects that most men (by market's standards) would find unappealing.
Hey, I like Cardcaptor Sakura so far. I've only seen about 3 episodes subbed, but I was quite amused at just how abusive she is to Touya (Such as routinely stomping on his foot or smashing his shins with her rollerblade). Oh and Tomoyo is also very very creepy in her obvious attraction to Sakura.

To me its all in what the material contains. It can be Shoujo and if its well done I'll like it and it can be Shounen Mecha action, but if its not well written then I won't even bother. Everything deserves a fair chance though. And yeah, hopefully that's the end of that subject.
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