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Old 2006-09-21, 17:24   Link #61
Sazelyt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik
Learn to read I said: could, and I also said: "And The point here is not weather if he can’t be killed, because it seems there must be a way," So don't twist my opinions, Ok?

Yes we do, There is no realation between the Circle and Hidan and his inmortallity because Hidan has shown he can't be killed even before doing this circle, meaning before the circle existance. Im saying what the manga already showed more than once, anything else about this are just speculations.
By the way I forgot to ask earlier. What is the invention made by me here? Kakuzu's comments, or using Kakuzu's comments directly without using any "ehem's" or "look, ..."s or "that's not what he wanted to say, the desire for money must have mixed the circuits in his brain" or etc....

Also, since we are talking about his immortality, his being killed is obviously a part of the point. and whatever the point is, you are the first one who quoted Kakuzu's opinion regarding Hidan, so you shouldn't complain when another person also use a comment from the same person on the same topic.

Again, you are claiming that seal has nothing to do with his immortality. I gave you a pretty simple case suggesting that "maybe" that seal is originally the source of his immortality and maybe it has something to do with his immortality. Do we know anything about that validates or invalidates that? No. So, why must we automatically reject it?

Lastly, I call this very interesting: "Rurik: Im saying what the manga already showed more than once,anything else about this are just speculations.". I should keep this in my mind "anything I see once in the manga is just a game my mind plays for me and I should consider it as speculation. To make sure it really happened, I need to be shown at least twice".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik
EDIT:Lets make something clear, because I wont continue to argue about this, There could be some relation as you are Impliying, but current facts Tell otherwise.
Current facts do not tell anything at all.
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Old 2006-09-21, 17:27   Link #62
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Hidan may be immortal, but the damage inflicted to his body is very real. If his body is organic, which it probably is since we’ve seen him bleed, then we can suppose Hidan has some sort of rapid regeneration ability. I hope that’s not the case, since rapid healing has already been played out by so many Naruto characters.

Yeah…maybe it’s all just a very elaborate Genjutsu.
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Old 2006-09-21, 17:42   Link #63
tramadrama
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The circle has nothing to do with is immortality. Otherwise, he'd be living in that same circle 365 days out of the year. All that circle represents is a ritual to what we are currently seeing. That's the only thing that shows. Nothing else shows otherwise. Come on Sazelyt, rethink that statement. "Current facts do not tell anything at all." What you just said acknowledges that it is indeed fact, and that's all it needs to tell. Don't set yourself up for a signature. I've seen some crucial ones around here.
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Old 2006-09-21, 17:47   Link #64
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to me i think all immortal / invincible characters can be killed with a certain method. like take Achilles for example, he can't be killed (please don't ask me why i had to relate Greek Mythology and Naruto) and basically an invincible because his mother bathed him in sacred water when he was a baby. but then he had a vulnerable spot since his mother didn't bathe him completely which was his heel. so basically nothing can kill Achilles unless you shoot his vulernable spot. well i to me i think Hidan has a vulernable spot but then we have to find out sooner.
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Old 2006-09-21, 17:50   Link #65
tramadrama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a03
to me i think all immortal / invincible characters can be killed with a certain method. like take Achilles for example, he can't be killed (please don't ask me why i had to relate Greek Mythology and Naruto) and basically an invincible because his mother bathed him in sacred water when he was a baby. but then he had a vulnerable spot since his mother didn't bathe him completely which was his heel. so basically nothing can kill Achilles unless you shoot his vulernable spot. well i to me i think Hidan has a vulernable spot but then we have to find out sooner.
That's what I think Shik found out. As a matter of fact, part of his analysis, ironically, showed Hidan's feet. Coincidence?
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Old 2006-09-21, 17:52   Link #66
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I say I wont reply to you, but let see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
By the way I forgot to ask earlier. What is the invention made by me here?
Your Inventions: the circle is tied to Hidan Ability, That HIdan ability is made by Healing, If you don't have Manga reference, they are your inventions.

Quote:
Also, since we are talking about his immortality, his being killed is obviously a part of the point. and whatever the point is, you are the first one who quoted Kakuzu's opinion regarding Hidan, so you shouldn't complain when another person also use a comment from the same person on the same topic.
Once again, We are talking about what happens outside the circle, That he can be killed or not is irrelevant, its about what happens outside the circle.What happens outside the circle, Not the ability itself.

And Im not complaining on anything, Im using the facts that has been said, Kakuuzu is talking about someone of Death partners and how HIdan can't be killed,

The quote you used had a response from Hidans part.

So your line about Kakuuzu, could be a JOke, a Joke thas been running between them since they have been introduced. And still does not change the fact and is irrelevant to the fact that HIdans Ability works without the circle.

IF It does needs the circle Show me Manga chapter where it was stated or Shown, And explain to me what Happened in Chapter 322 and 323.

Quote:
Again, you are claiming that seal has nothing to do with his immortality. I gave you a pretty simple case suggesting that "maybe" that seal is originally the source of his immortality and maybe it has something to do with his immortality. Do we know anything about that validates or invalidates that? No. So, why must we automatically reject it?
We Know that he cant be killed before the seal is made, or you just decide to forget what Happened in Chapter 323 For this Debate???

Maybe is not Reality, Reality it was been shown in the Manga, If Kishimoto decides to Change this, then we will have a different POV, but the actual facts is what counts, not your speculation based on Nothing.

Quote:
Lastly, I call this very interesting: "Rurik: Im saying what the manga already showed more than once,anything else about this are just speculations.". I should keep this in my mind "anything I see once in the manga is just a game my mind plays for me and I should consider it as speculation. To make sure it really happened, I need to be shown at least twice".
Please you go so far just for the sake of Disagreeing??? so we can say: Who cares about what the Manga has shown??? because Sazelyt Opinions are the best? Because he is the best and other people are just Stupid??? Because your IQ is to high for Human comprehension??? This quote of yours only shows How arrogant you can become when someone disagree with you.

Quote:
Current facts do not tell anything at all.
So, HIdan been stab by two person in vital places and not dying as observed and The answer HIdan gives and Kakuuzus comments does not Say Anything at all???? Yeah Because You decided they don tell anything at all, thats denial.
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Old 2006-09-21, 17:52   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tramadrama
That's what I think Shik found out. As a matter of fact, part of his analysis, ironically, showed Hidan's feet. Coincidence?
wooooo kishi's been reading some Greek Mythology... I'm impressed
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Old 2006-09-21, 18:00   Link #68
tramadrama
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You, know, it's his feet that keeps him in the circle. Well, his feet and balance. i wonder if Asuma would feel something if Hidan's feet were attacked. The circle itself could be the source of power for that jutsu, or it could be transfering from the ground up, travelling through the course of his feet to the top of his body. When you think about it like that, something out of that jutsu couldn't possibly be getting the same amount of energy. Maybe that energy isn't getting dispersed equally. So, then that would mean there is a part of his body where when you stab Hidan, Asuma won't feel it.
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Old 2006-09-21, 18:08   Link #69
Sazelyt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tramadrama
The circle has nothing to do with is immortality. Otherwise, he'd be living in that same circle 365 days out of the year. All that circle represents is a ritual to what we are currently seeing. That's the only thing that shows. Nothing else shows otherwise. Come on Sazelyt, rethink that statement. "Current facts do not tell anything at all." What you just said acknowledges that it is indeed fact, and that's all it needs to tell.
I don't know how you come up with that, but if you know there is a relationship between two cases (immortality and a bloodline kind of ability that uses a seal and makes perfect use of the immortality), then there is always the possibility that one might have triggered the other. Maybe, he used the characteristic of that ability and seal to genetically modify his body or to create a different body like Sasori, maybe those two are related to each other in a way resulting in an egg-chicken relationship. Personally I don't know. And I don't think you know more than I do here.

And since when a person needs 365 days of immortality. I thought he only needed it during his fights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik
Once again, We are talking about what happens outside the circle, That he can be killed or not is irrelevant, its about what happens outside the circle.What happens outside the circle, Not the ability itself.
Once again, "If something is irrelevant to the discussion, then don't use it first yourself to support your argument".

Quote:
We Know that he cant be killed before the seal is made, or you just decide to forget what Happened in Chapter 323 For this Debate???
And we really gave him enough time to prove that. Tsunade's body was cut multiple times by Oro's sword, and she continued to live. What does that prove, she can't be killed?
Quote:
Maybe is not Reality, Reality it was been shown in the Manga, If Kishimoto decides to Change this, then we will have a different POV, but the actual facts is what counts, not your speculation based on Nothing.
You have a twisted sense of reality. You are completely rejecting quotes made by the characters, and assume them as sarcasm. I still remember your discussions regarding Kisame to make him seem more intelligent than Itachi, please don't give me that "I don't approve anything other than the facts" lie.
Quote:
Please you go so far just for the sake of Disagreeing??? so we can say: Who cares about what the Manga has shown??? because Sazelyt Opinions are the best? Because he is the best and other people are just Stupid??? Because your IQ is to high for Human comprehension??? This quote of yours only shows How arrogant you can become when someone disagree with you.
I gave you a quote from the manga that says Hidan can be killed. Then you brought two quotes from Hidan and Kakuzu (to increase the number of "can be killed" cases to two) to invalidate the quote I gave, which is made the latest, then come up with a new fact-accepting theory of "my facts can beat yours, since my count is two". I don't even have a desire to laugh at that, that much tragicomic.

Quote:
So, HIdan been stab by two person in vital places and not dying as observed and The answer HIdan gives and Kakuuzus comments does not Say Anything at all???? Yeah Because You decided they don tell anything at all, thats denial.
??? I talked about egg, the answer is about meat...

Last edited by Sazelyt; 2006-09-21 at 18:32.
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Old 2006-09-21, 18:10   Link #70
tramadrama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
I don't know how you come up with that, but if you know there is a relationship between two cases (immortality and a bloodline kind of ability that uses a seal and makes perfect use of the immortality), then there is always the possibility that one might have triggered the other. Maybe, he used the characteristic of that ability and seal to genetically modify his body or to create a different body like Sasori, maybe those two are related to each other in a way resulting in an egg-chicken relationship. Personally I don't know. And I don't think you know more than I do here.

And since when a person needs 365 days of immortality. I thought he only needed it during his fights.
What I mean by the 365 thing is simple. Using your claim that the seal may have something to do with his immortality, then he would be confined within that seal at all times. Now, the only way I can see that seal being the cause of his immortality, is if the neckless that he is wearing, which captures the same pattern, is the cause of his "immortality." Then, in that case, he is confined within the seal 365. How many times have we seen a movie or anime that once they are released from a certain barrier or whatever, they immediately die?

But this guy is definitely off somewhere in the course of "immortality." Hidan did get stabbed in his vitals without being within the circle. That's part of the theory of him being immortal, even outside the circle. He may not want 365 of immortality, but he's got it, even outside of fights. And I repeat, the neckless is the only thing that is keeping your arguement alive. Because that neckless has the seal on it and it is on his person.

The seal that was drawn on the ground seems to be for his current jutsu.

Edit: About healing within the circle, the reason that may not be right is because this guy was flipping around dodging and ducking Asuma's attacks before even getting into the circle, all after being stabbed in two vital points. That's ridiculous!
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Last edited by tramadrama; 2006-09-21 at 18:22.
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Old 2006-09-21, 18:21   Link #71
gibits
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
Lastly, I call this very interesting: "Rurik: Im saying what the manga already showed more than once,anything else about this are just speculations.". I should keep this in my mind "anything I see once in the manga is just a game my mind plays for me and I should consider it as speculation. To make sure it really happened, I need to be shown at least twice".

Current facts do not tell anything at all.
The one speculating there is a connection between the circle and Hidan's immortality is you. You're free to do so but you shouldn't just go out a say others are wrong, especially when they have the manga to back it up.

The first page of 323 shows clearly that Hidan is impaled and no circle is on the floor. Even if he is healing as you say it doesn't change the fact that he's still impaled.....

Maybe his partner was just concrened about him Either way your arguement fails.
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Old 2006-09-21, 18:25   Link #72
Ero-Senn1n
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airaku
Hidan may be immortal, but the damage inflicted to his body is very real. If his body is organic, which it probably is since we’ve seen him bleed, then we can suppose Hidan has some sort of rapid regeneration ability.
The lethal wound means that it cannot be healed, because it's lethal. And the 2 guys both aimed and striked on lethal organs, probably they cut organs like the heart and lungs. When Sasori did inflict a lethal damage to Sakura she could not be healed by any known healing jutsu, so the grandma explained that she used a special jutsu which was not medical. So i'm sure whatever Hidan uses is not simply medical jutsu, it's something more than that, something that exceeds normal human capabilities. For example a blood pact with a death god (he made the seal with his own blood, which was spilled by the 2 swords). We know that to summon creatures from the other world (Gamabunta, Enma, ...) the ninja needs a previous blood pact and he also needs his own blood for the actual summoning jutsu. So if he did some kind of pact, than he needed his own blood for the seal, and he needed Asuma's blood for the jutsu of human sacrifice.
The elements of other jutsu which we saw in previous fights:
- blood needed for the jutsu
- a mark made on the ground (when summoning the mark just appears from the user's palm)
- Hidan is indestructible like the 2 hokages summoned with Edo Tensei
- here the opponent is the human sacrifice, Edo Tensei also needs human sacrifice
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Old 2006-09-21, 18:39   Link #73
Sazelyt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gibits
The one speculating there is a connection between the circle and Hidan's immortality is you. You're free to do so but you shouldn't just go out a say others are wrong, especially when they have the manga to back it up.

The first page of 323 shows clearly that Hidan is impaled and no circle is on the floor. Even if he is healing as you say it doesn't change the fact that he's still impaled.....

Maybe his partner was just concrened about him Either way your arguement fails.
I believe I clearly talked about this as if it is an assumption. And I am really glad that my argument is a failure for you. If it would have become a success for you, I would have really started to doubt my argument.
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Old 2006-09-21, 18:49   Link #74
Souten no Seigyoku
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In pg5 Hidan indicates he feels pain when ppl die so the circle doesnt block the pain. Second, in pg9 or 10 where Shikamarus shadow intersects with Hidan's circle and we get a reaction from hidan. Also, in the previous chapter and in shikamaru's remembering flashback, Hidan is shown avoiding leaving the circle. Lastly, the circle isnt for pain transference cus he had already burned Asuma before the circle was ready in pg2

All seem to indicate to me that he must stay in the circle. If the circle doesnt prevent pain, then theres another reason for wanting to stay in it.
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Old 2006-09-21, 18:50   Link #75
tramadrama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Souten no Seigyoku
In pg5 Hidan indicates he feels pain when ppl die so the circle doesnt block the pain. Second, in pg9 or 10 where Shikamarus shadow intersects with Hidan's circle and we get a reaction from hidan. Also, in the previous chapter and in shikamaru's remembering flashback, Hidan is shown avoiding leaving the circle. Lastly, the circle isnt for pain transference cus he had already burned Asuma before the circle was ready in pg2

All seem to indicate to me that he must stay in the circle. If the circle doesnt prevent pain, then theres another reason for wanting to stay in it.
I thought Asuma burned himself. Asuma attacked him in Chapter 323 towards the end and right at that point, Hidan was already in the circle, causing Hidan and Asuma to be burned. That's how I interpreted it. The after effects were shown at the beginning of this chapter.
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Old 2006-09-21, 18:58   Link #76
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
Once again, "If something is irrelevant to the discussion, then don't use it first yourself to support your argument".
Please, You are the on who are using the Death part, I’m just saying How Kauuzu and HIdan always refer he can’t Be killed, and never said He can’t be killed only when he is in the circle. Don’t try to change the view of things now.

Quote:
And we really gave him enough time to prove that. Tsunade's body was cut multiple times by Oro's sword, and she continued to live. What does that prove, she can't be killed?
If he is stabbed and said he is immortal and repeated many times before and after this, then yes we did, Tsunade was never said to be immortal and we se her healing her wounds after this. I don’t care if there are nanomachines that heal Hidan wounds, I’m talking about how this Nanomchines worked outside the Circle.

Quote:
You have a twisted sense of reality. You are completely rejecting quotes made by the characters, and assume them as sarcasm.
Really can you point me out what Quote made by what character in what Chapter I rejected?

Quote:
I still remember your discussions regarding Kisame to make him seem more intelligent than Itachi, please don't give me that "I don't approve anything other than the facts" lie.
Are you still resented about that? Is it all this because of that debate??? The Kisame part Is similar to this, it was a case of you thinking your opinions are the only answer to something.

I never said Kisame is more intelligent than Itachi Don’t twist my points, I told you we don’t know why Kisame was asking about the retreat, which the answer we don’t know and not because Kisane is a mindless beast as you claimed.

Quote:
I gave you a quote from the manga that says Hidan can be killed. Then you brought two quotes from Hidan and Kakuzu (to increase the number of "can be killed" cases to two) to invalidate the quote I gave, which is made the latest, then come up with a new fact-accepting theory of "my facts can beat yours, since my count is two". I don't even have a desire to laugh at that, that much tragicomic.
Yes I used that to show you how it was stated more than once that he cant be killed, and the time said he can be killed had been said more than the ones I showed you, but he either cant be killed or he can be killed, as of Know We know he cant, I believe he can, but Even if he is outside the circle this fact does not change, as my first post you quoted said.

Quote:
??? I talked about egg, the answer is about meat...
The answer you deserved, everything state that the manga has showed you that he cant be killed outside the circle.
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Old 2006-09-21, 19:05   Link #77
Sazelyt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik
The answer you deserved, everything state that the manga has showed you that he cant be killed outside the circle.
The manga has also stated that "Hidan can be killed" from the mouth of Kakuzu, and at the time that comment made, Hidan was outside the circle.
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Old 2006-09-21, 19:17   Link #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
The manga has also stated that "Hidan can be killed" from the mouth of Kakuzu, and at the time that comment made, Hidan was outside the circle.
You know how many times I repeated you this?, You are either doing this on purpose or you just avoiding my points: Is not abaout if HIdan can or cant be killed, Im talking abaout how the Manga show you how his " Abbility" Works outside the circle.

Just because you deserve special attention let me explain you what this means, when I said this : He can’t be killed only when he is in the circle, is talking about an entire quote saying “He can’t be killed only when he is in the circle” and not a quote “He can’t be killed” and the character saying this while Hidan is in the circle
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Old 2006-09-21, 19:40   Link #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
I believe I clearly talked about this as if it is an assumption. And I am really glad that my argument is a failure for you. If it would have become a success for you, I would have really started to doubt my argument.
ROFL
It fails for most proplr here too, i guess this just proves you live in your own little world.
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Old 2006-09-21, 19:41   Link #80
Sazelyt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik
Everything state that the manga has showed you that he cant be killed outside the circle.
The manga has also stated that "Hidan can be killed" from the mouth of Kakuzu, and at the time that comment made, Hidan was outside the circle.


I really wonder, what the quoted sentence mean? Let's divide it into parts:
everything in the manga states (not a single fact argues that in the manga), he can't be killed outside the circle (when he is outside the circle, Hidan cannot be killed).

If anyone here has a different translation of that sentence, other than the one mentioned above, please let us know.

Let's also investigate the answer: The manga has also stated that (there is a direct observation in the manga) "Hidan can be killed" from the mouth of Kakuzu (which claims that Hidan can be killed), and at the time that comment made, Hidan was outside the circle (and when that comment made, there was actually no circle, directly suggesting that Hidan was actually outside the circle).

Now, why did I divide those two. Mainly because, the author of that comment was also claiming that immortality has nothing to do with the seal. Meaning he can be killed neither in the circle nor outside the circle. Now, let us ignore the circle for a moment, and think carefully to find out what the comment suggesting the possibility of Hidan's death means?

Let me answer instead of the author: Something that interestingly stays outside the "everything stated in the manga".

Quote:
Originally Posted by gibits
ROFL
It fails for most proplr here too, i guess this just proves you live in your own little world.
Yes, and you, yourself, (think you are) represent(ing) the most people here - a highly -self-acclaimed title that is a good example of what you suggested at the end.
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