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Old 2006-10-16, 00:08   Link #81
solomon
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Hmm, i hear Ryouske "Votoms" Takahashi is on staff here, any similiarites between this and his other stuff?............i assume setting will not be one of them
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Old 2006-10-16, 00:26   Link #82
Quajafrie
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Hm... they're both great?
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Old 2006-10-16, 02:52   Link #83
wao
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The only drawback would be, like I mentioned many times, for people who want to have very realistic sort of stories. This is like a cross between the Rurouni Kenshin OVA and TV series - it's not nearly as light-hearted as the TV series and has less of a Shonen Jump kidn of feel, and at the same time it's not as serious and realistic as the OVA. Particularly the fight scenes - they're not in the same vein but I can somehow almost smell the same kind of style when I watch it. Maybe it's the camera angles and the directing. (It isn't surprising considering Ryousuke Takahashi was an assistant director for the show, I guess.)

(I would be in heaven if Kazuhiro Furuhashi [the director of RuroKen] guest directed/storyboarded an episode and brought Norio Matsumoto along or something; but a. he doesn't really work a lot with Sunrise and b. he's busy with Chevalier anyway! Although Chevalier was a bit of a surprise, I.G. frequently takes on people affiliated with other companies (in Furuhashi's case it would be Studio DEEN)... but Sunrise is another matter entirely...)

I can't believe it's only Monday... I can't believe nobody's subbed the first episode yet and it's very sad because such a potentially great show is getting ignored by non-raw-watchers, and it doesn't even have 'weird' things! I'm sure the crowd that enjoyed Rurouni Kenshin would be receptive to this... baaah.

ON another note, I'm really wondering what they'll do with 26 episodes. Actually I only thought it was 13 until I opened my eyes properly yesterday and found out... I guess it allows for more time to expand on the backstories of the various members and for episodes solely dedicated to character development, in typical anime style of course

I'm also looking forward to episode 4 animation-wise because the storyboarder and animation director is Tatsuya Suzuki, one half of the Suzuki brothers who did a lot of work for the action scenes in Samurai Champloo.
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Last edited by wao; 2006-10-16 at 03:04.
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Old 2006-10-16, 04:51   Link #84
Nightengale
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To be completely fair...It's not like Bakumatsu isn't exactly on the "easy-to-tl" list of Fall's list of shows. I'm fairly comfortable with Japanese in whole, but even then I couldn't exactly catch the whole gist (( speech-wise, while making sense )) what the troupe members were performing for Akizuki in Episode 1.

I don't really think one can expect full-fledged periodical historical accuracy from this. The setting is strong on accuracy in it's historical potrayal, (( not exactly my strong point, but it's there )), but the concept which balances the internal story of Akizuki's quest to hunt the...Hasha no Kubi whatever isn't exactly something close to realistic on that particular sense. Kinda like The Golden Millenium Arc of Berserk. The setting itself felt particular realistic, but within the setting with the main players where Apostle Beast and other mystical/super-natural stuff runs amock within the small camp.

It should be subbed in due time....me thinks. Of course, it won't come even close to the over-subbed materials like KANON, Death Note, D.Gray-Man and any other shows that suddenly become the next cream and gets picked up, even when they're left behind.

Where's the Akizuki luv? Goddamnit!! It's been a long time since I've seen a main character who's breathes cool-ness and yet releases angst from every sweat-pores of his body without even needing to speak. Awesomeness.
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Old 2006-10-16, 05:57   Link #85
Quajafrie
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But other shows like Chevalier are much more difficult to translate, I guess. Anyway, I'm pretty sure someone will pick it up sooner or later. My problem is, it will be finished like half a year after the show has finished airing.
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Old 2006-10-16, 08:12   Link #86
wao
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If people can sub Chevalier, I am sure they could sub this It does after all refer to actual things that happened at the time and with some research one could find all these things out...

In fact today I just did some reading on the Bakumatsu, the Boshin War, Ryoma Sakamoto etc. One must constantly keep in mind the two opposing forces; one one hand we have the Bakufu or the Shogunate (and the Shinsengumi), on teh other hand there are the imperialists (represented by the Satsuma and Choushuu clans, I guess).

Now this is what I understand:
Spoiler for me rambling because I suck at history:


I hope I didn't misunderstand anything. Now it's a little easier to see what the guys behind this show mean when they hope this anime would provoke a reflection on the state of affairs now. Rising nationality and some imperialist factions gaining a foothold, and a call for rejection of foreign pressures... What did the people do back then, and what should we do now? Hm.

I swear, this is the effect of having someone sooo cool like Akizuki in an anime like this... it makes you inspired to go read up about something you're not very good at rememering...
So now I will rewatch the episode... again... and try to make more sense of it (I got lost with the reference to 'Nagaoka han' and why the Gatling gun was being taken over).

EDIT:Okay, I tried to read some of this which made the Gatling gun dude make sense. Actually, now that I properly read the names given in the first episode (ignoring the middle bits and putting the front and back together...), it's all starting to make sense!

Gah.

Spoiler for again, me rambling:


That is as much as I can make out now. By the way, regarding that look in episode 2,
Spoiler:



Oh yeah, the guy on the ship in episode 2 is T.B. Glover. He supported the Satsuma/Choushuu factions, even helping send some of their students for overseas study in a time when you weren't allowed to leave Japan. He was primarily an arms merchant, and after the Revolution had to close his company down because he had no business. He still was in charge of Takashima Coal Mines as part of a collaboration with the Hizen han, and stayed on in an admin position even after it got bought over by Iwasaki Yataro, the founder of Mitsubishi (who also sorta bought over Ryoma Sakamoto's company). Quite cool that his son with a Japanese woman was called Thomas Albert Glover -> Tomisaburou Kuraba.
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Last edited by wao; 2006-10-16 at 12:39.
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Old 2006-10-16, 10:36   Link #87
Zappster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quajafrie View Post
But other shows like Chevalier are much more difficult to translate, I guess. Anyway, I'm pretty sure someone will pick it up sooner or later. My problem is, it will be finished like half a year after the show has finished airing.
Better late than never
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Old 2006-10-16, 11:23   Link #88
Aniki Meiski
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Yamaoka Tesshu was one of the legendary fencer. Escorted by Masumitsu,, a captured samurai from the other side, he ventured out from Edo to talk to Saigo, who was at the time stationed at Shunpu (Shizuoka) (Feburary 1968). This laid down the foundation for surrender negotiations between Saigo and Katsu Kaishu. As a result, Edo escaped the fate of civil war, apart from skirmish in Ueno.

Kawai Tsuginosuke was one of the retainers of the Nagaoka clan, from the north. Most people form the north supported the Shogun. He raised money to buy arms from the mysterious Shnel brothers (not from Nakaiya and Thomas Glover as in the story), including the lastest weapon of the time, 2 Gatlings. He was killed in the same year while fighting against the Imperial Army, if I remember correctly.

You can even read the lines from Soutetsu rather cheesy play in episode 2. Somehow strangely it was written in modern post-1946 spelling. May be he is one of those time-travellers messing up historical timeline (I hope not).
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Old 2006-10-16, 11:49   Link #89
MrProphet
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That's a fairly accurate description there, wao.

Sakamoto himself was a man from the Tosa han (currently Kochi prefecture in Shikoku), but he did indeed negotiate an alliance between Satsuma and Choshuu.

As you have mentioned, there was a lot of difference between the men of Satsuma and the men of Choshuu, even though they had a goal of wresting power away from the Bakufu (the government). Although their goal was officially to restore the Emperor's direct rule, they were in fact planning to and in the end did install a military junta of their own to replace the Tokugawa Shogunate.

Spoiler for The Patriots:


The Boshin War itself was fairly one sided. The numerically superior shogunate forces suffered a string of humiliating defeats. Katsu Kaishu, the Bakufu noble who was most interested in modernizing Japan and buidling a powerful navy to stand against Western ultimatums, was dismissed from the Shogun's court because of intrigues within the Tokugawa bakufu. The Shugunate was corrupt and ineffective from the top to the bottom.

When the last Shogun has abdicated his powers in the Fall of 1867, the rebels and the governement was ready for the final showdown. The rebels demanded that the former Shogun commit suicide in order to prevent the future restoration. The diehard governement forces to ready to fight to the end. The foreign powers were basically preparing to jump in for a quick smash-and-grab of everything that's left in the chaos. This is the Japan that we are in right now, February 1868. On the very brink of a nationwide bloody civil war with one side not willing to compromise and the other side ready to go down in flames but not give up.

Spoiler for Want to know how it got resolved?:


As for the Nagaoka and those two Gatling guns, here's how it went.

Spoiler for gatling guns:
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Old 2006-10-16, 12:44   Link #90
wao
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Thanks for the replies. I was so busy editing my post up there with more ramblings about episode 1 (and episode 2) that I didn't notice the new posts until *after* I edited them. I didn't expect that even the guy on the ship would turn out to be based on a real person ... It's really fascinating that to that extent the anime *is* quite historically accurate.

Now I wonder with the Hasha no Kubi thrown in the mix, how things will turn out be different from history...

P.S. Isn't it amsuing to consider that red, which Kakunojou has been associated with, is symbolic of the good forces in kabuki, while Akizuki, who so far has been associated with blue, would represent the bad guys?
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Old 2006-10-16, 12:55   Link #91
Kaoru Chujo
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I'm not volunteering here, but I just wanted to mention that when Simoun had reached eight episodes and the subs were only at ep2, various actual fans took it upon themselves to start producing quick softsubs for current episodes. It just happened that there were three people (at least) in that thread who were able to do that; the technical aspects are pretty simple. Eventually the fans ended up making themselves into a fansub group, re-edited the rough softsubs into good, hard-coded subs, and also subbed the episodes that hadn't been done.

Personally, I'm a fan of softsubs, because they can be quicker, because they can easily be done by one person, and because they seem to me slightly less invasive of copyright. But they certainly do not reach as many people. The Simoun softsubs were far from perfect, but they were fairly accurate and enabled people to keep up with the series.

In any case, AndrewLB's page does say that at least two different groups have plans for this show. Interestingly, I haven't seen any Chinese subs for the show yet, either.

Thanks to wao and MrProphet for the history lessons. One of the pluses of this show is that it has driven me to Google and Wikipedia to try to understand the history. I can't help comparing it to China, where the vast and bloody Taiping Rebellion had finally been put down a few years earlier by the troops of the corrupt and backward imperial government, with some aid from Western countries.

I'm not 100% sure what the people who want Japanese to reflect upon their current situation based on this show actually want them to do. Hate foreigners and go back to a clean, pure...feudalism? Watch kabuki rather than game shows? Make a better life by nursing century-old grievances?

Finally, I was wondering if the observation that non-samurai seemed to be carrying swords might be explained by the general chaos of the time, or by the extraterritorial rights that enabled foreigners to be a law unto themselves in an open port like Yokohama and therefore may have required more Japanese to protect themselves.
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Old 2006-10-16, 13:04   Link #92
wao
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Probably they're thinking more along the lines of whether their intended audience should react to the rising nationalism by supporting it wholeheartedly or be very wary of it.

But what the heck, I think that's probably just half-bollocks at the most and they really wanted to create a fun samurai show, with cool people like Akizuki and a small but dedicated fanbase including swooning fangirls.

There's almost no other reason I'd stay up until 2 am on a school day just researching all the various figures! But god, this is why I failed history in school...
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Old 2006-10-16, 13:53   Link #93
kari-no-sugata
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With all the mentions of Bakufu characters appearing in anime, I'm a bit surprised nobody mentioned Shura no Toki (specifically, the 3rd arc), which had quite a bit on Sakamoto Ryouma. Of course, some things had to change to fit in a non-historical character, Mutsu Itsumi, who became Ryouma's friend and bodyguard - and was really pissed when his friend got assassinated when he wasn't there.
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Old 2006-10-16, 14:12   Link #94
MrProphet
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I don't think that the purpose of this show is to approach the current nationalistic fervor in Japanese politics and analyze it from the historical point of view. Although, it would have been curious indeed if they did that.

The Bakumatsu era is a very fertile ground for all sorts of interesting stories. Too many events happenening. Too many noticable men with interesting history running around. There is a lot of good ground to cover, so it's not very surprising that Japanese screenwriters again and again return to it. For any kind of jidaigeki (historical drama), the Bakumatsu in 1860's and the end of the Sengoku period (1590's) are the two most interesting periods.

Just like Kenshin, Iroha is not a story of a historical character, but Akizuki's story does occur on the backdrop of important historical events. This in turn makes Akizuki's story more authentic and more exciting. This is the opposite of a show like Peacemaker Kurogane, where a study of the historical event (Ikedaya) and everything that precipitated it is a lot more interesting than the story of the main character (Tetsunosuke). I think Iroha is going the other way, but we'll see as it goes by.

And I certainly hope that more groups will take on this project as the time goes by. Selfmade softsubs are a great idea, but it depends on a very dedicated person like wowo to make it happen. In addition, since this is an internet broadcast, the quality of the raw video is quite low, so perhaps that stops many subbers.
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Old 2006-10-16, 18:58   Link #95
lommm
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wao, MrProphet, AnikiMeiski........ methinks this be a show worth my attention if the three of you like it.... what do ye thinks?

i will youtube some of it and see....
EDIT
DAMN YOU GOOGLE!! now youtube removes anything and everything that might be copyright infringement, so none of this show is available, not even the preview, promo, or an amv that someone made!!!
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Old 2006-10-17, 08:00   Link #96
wao
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kari-no-sugata: Maybe because some of us haven't actually watched it... >_>


As for the intention behind the show, well like it was shown in an article earlier, they did write somethign to the extent of that, if I didn't misunderstand it. It's at the bottom of the article here
thanks to Sonhex and evil-samurai
... Of course I don't think it was written one of the people actually making the show, but well...

I'm not entirely sold on it though, and I'm much more content to just think they want to make an enjoyable show with fujoshi material, that isn't repulsive either...

lommm: I suggest you wait and come back in a few weeks time by which 5 eps or so have aired, so that you can get a better idea of their opinion. Don't trust mine at all on this show, I'm too much of a blind fangirl of it (and probably Akizuki...) *cough* (Of course, if I drop this show - which I doubt will happen - then that's probably an assurance that it's really become crap)
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Old 2006-10-17, 08:42   Link #97
MrProphet
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I am personally not so mad about Akizuki, our lonesome lone loner character, but I like the show itself quite a bit.

- Very good animation. Nothing crazy Norio Matsumoto-style, but definitely above average.
- Possibly interesting plot, interspercing the mysterious (Conqueror's Head) and the historical (Boshin War).
- Good, original characters. Some of the people in the kabuki troupe look fairly run-of-the-mill (like the maimed boy ninja or the silent-strong type), but still, there are interesting characters in there and it looks authentic. I like the playwright, Ibaraki, even though he really does look like a runaway from the Ohtori Academy. 8)

So, I am still on the wall as far as the fact whether Iroha is 'great' is concerned, but I am already convinced that it is 'good'.
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Old 2006-10-17, 16:01   Link #98
DoReMiFaSo
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Ep 2 is awesome. Akizuki is getting cooler and cooler. The fight is great. And the scene that he saved the troupe leader (forgot her name) is just SO cool (I can't emphasize that enough. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
In any case, AndrewLB's page does say that at least two different groups have plans for this show. Interestingly, I haven't seen any Chinese subs for the show yet, either.
Actually, I saw some Chinese subs out there, but their translations are not that great.
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Old 2006-10-17, 21:04   Link #99
Oberon
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Just having some fun.

Spoiler for ep2:


I'm impressed by those first two episodes. Art and direction are pretty good. I wonder if they can keep this quality up for the whole series. The characters are entertaining, especially in their kabuki mode and Akizuki is collecting style points by the minute. Another thing I'm curious about is, why Sunrise chose to air it on a web channel. Isn't the idea for a series to get as much exposure as possible, so people go out and buy DVDs, merchandise and stuff?
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Old 2006-10-18, 01:59   Link #100
wao
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Right on, Oberon! Ahahaha... It's such a perfectly calculated scene to make you go "!!" if you're a fangirl... Probably because it strikes you as being so unnatural.

If it's the quality of the raws that's keeping fansub groups away from this title, then that's a really big pity... It'll be quite some time until the first DVD is out...
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