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Old 2006-09-29, 11:05   Link #21
Sabaku Kyu
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Even earlier than that. Sasuke first mentions Itachi when they are introducing themselves to Kakashi. Sasuke says his goal is to "kill a certain man"(Naruto believes he's talking about him) and Itachi's eyes are briefly shown. That makes Itachi the first main villain to be referenced in the entire series (besides the Kyuubi of course).
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Old 2006-09-29, 11:08   Link #22
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu
Even earlier than that. Sasuke first mentions Itachi when they are introducing themselves to Kakashi. Sasuke says his goal is to "kill a certain man"(Naruto believes he's talking about him) and Itachi's eyes are briefly shown. That makes Itachi the first villain to be referenced in the entire series (besides the Kyuubi of course).
Yes, I think by that moment we did not knew that Man was his Brother, but tecnically he was introduced in that chapter you mentioned.
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Old 2006-09-29, 12:10   Link #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik
Ahh Yes, He was mentioned by Sasuke as Brother when he is about to "die" because of Haku's needles. Itachi's name Was first mentioned by Orochimaru in the forrest of death.
Yes, but that was just Itachi as a legend, the char wasn't introduced until very late. I repeat, you are totally wrong, Kabuto has Sannin potential and he's one of the most intelligent villains unlike some Akatsuki as Hunter pointed out. Of course everyone's entitled to their opinion, but your dislike for Kabuto doesn't mean his character is not relevant to the story. He is one of the few villain who have relationship to Kakashi, Naruto and Sasuke, in fact.

Since you went offline after reading this, I have to assume you agree now.
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Old 2006-09-29, 12:45   Link #24
Ero-Senn1n
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I think the illness was a consequence of all the crazy medical/other experimentation of Orochimaru and Kabuto. To become forcibly so strong there must be some negative effects on him. And now we see how Sakura says that Sasuke's speed and power seems extreme, there must be some forbidden/bad way it was achieved.
However Sasuke will be saved from the bad effects before he gets a similar illness.
Orochimaru collapses, his new body rejects him, Sasori can never achive a perfect puppet body, Itachi maybe going blind, etc... I think it's a fundamental moral message from Kishimoto, which determines the laws of this manga: these people will never achieve their ultimate goals.
On the other hand it's funny to see that Kabuto is too human, and with that he is quite weak between all those monsters. He seems to be like an evil scientist, doing all those experiments, but never risking his own health, he uses his test subjects: Oro, Kimimaro, Sasuke, and the thousands of unknown people.
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Old 2006-09-29, 13:21   Link #25
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Flash
Yes, but that was just Itachi as a legend, the char wasn't introduced until very late. I repeat, you are totally wrong, Kabuto has Sannin potential and he's one of the most intelligent villains unlike some Akatsuki as Hunter pointed out. Of course everyone's entitled to their opinion, but your dislike for Kabuto doesn't mean his character is not relevant to the story. He is one of the few villain who have relationship to Kakashi, Naruto and Sasuke, in fact.

Since you went offline after reading this, I have to assume you agree now.
As normal with all of your assumptions, you were wrong.

Kabuto was as Good as Kakashi, So his Sanin potential was just an overstatement.

And BTW, were did I say I had dislikes for Kabuto Yes I donít find him a interesting Character, but that does not mean I hate him...In fact Were Do I say I dislike a fictional Character.

And As I told you, If we are going to talk about who was introduced first, Iruka is one of the most Important characters in the series. we are talking about Importance in the plot, not how strong he is, you need to see why you really disagree.
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Old 2006-09-29, 14:02   Link #26
Kinder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik
Kabuto was as Good as Kakashi, So his Sanin potential was just an overstatement.
overstatement? Both Kabuto and Kakashi have sannin potencial. They have a geniality in diferent ways, kakashi with elemental jutsus and some taijutsu (sharingan helping, and he even manages genjutsus and sealing jutsus aswell) and Kabuto with medial jutsus. Both analisation skills are awsome and they have the capability of thinking ahead far from the normal.

No, it was not an overstatement.
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Old 2006-09-29, 14:09   Link #27
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinder
overstatement? Both Kabuto and Kakashi have sannin potencial. They have a geniality in diferent ways, kakashi with elemental jutsus and some taijutsu (sharingan helping, and he even manages genjutsus and sealing jutsus aswell) and Kabuto with medial jutsus. Both analisation skills are awsome and they have the capability of thinking ahead far from the normal.

No, it was not an overstatement.
Yes it is, this Shinoby could have things that you could say are potential to become as strong as Sanin, but they are lacking skill, when You talk about a Sanin, you talk about Hokage level, I donít see Kakashi nor Kabuto growing to become a Hokage.
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Old 2006-09-30, 11:15   Link #28
Hunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astayanax
I agree for the Kimmimaro part. I find it strange that someone of Kabuto's talent (who easily rival that of Tsunade) couldn't do anything to save Kimmimaro; yet he could kept him alive indefinitely until he used mind games to let him go after Sasuke.
This isn't as starnge when you know that Kabuto doesn't easily rival Tsunade's medical skill -which is why Oro sought Tsunade to heal his arms to begin with- and when you remember that it wasn't even hinted that he could keep Kimimaro alive indefinitely

Quote:
Originally Posted by astayanax
Kabuto is unrivalled in the use of corpses and could easily get whatever stuff he wants from them (ie if this was really a disease unique to the clan, he had all the test data he need to do his experiments and what not).
Kabuto had no information about this disease, he had no information about the clan except they were obliterated and he didn't know if this disease was unique to the Kaguya.
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Old 2006-09-30, 13:24   Link #29
Yellow Flash
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
This isn't as starnge when you know that Kabuto doesn't easily rival Tsunade's medical skill -which is why Oro sought Tsunade to heal his arms to begin with- and when you remember that it wasn't even hinted that he could keep Kimimaro alive indefinitely

Kabuto had no information about this disease, he had no information about the clan except they were obliterated and he didn't know if this disease was unique to the Kaguya.
But in my eyes Tsunade would have been just as helpless to heal Kimimaro. Even if her medical skills are above Kabuto, she still need information like she did rely on the Nara clan research when Choji was dying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik
Kabuto was as Good as Kakashi, So his Sanin potential was just an overstatement.
No, given that he was at age 19 when Tsunade was shocked by his skills, it is not an overstatement.

Quote:
And BTW, were did I say I had dislikes for Kabuto Yes I don’t find him a interesting Character, but that does not mean I hate him...In fact Were Do I say I dislike a fictional Character.
This is not BTW, it is precisely the point, your opinion make you say something which isn't fact.

Quote:
And As I told you, If we are going to talk about who was introduced first, Iruka is one of the most Important characters in the series. we are talking about Importance in the plot, not how strong he is, you need to see why you really disagree.
Iruka is very important to the main character inasmuch as he is like a father to Naruto, you know. Anyway, on topic Kabuto was and still is a mysterious villain hiding his true power and objective with unique medical skills forged in Orochimaru's hiding place with countless experiments and his obvious connection to Kakashi as a rival and his connection to all three main characters Sasuke, Naruto and Sakura which you completely ignored in your answer to my post, and his connection to Akatsuki as a former spy and the possible setback to Orochimaru if Kabuto were to betray him make this character very important to the story indeed.

Last edited by Yellow Flash; 2006-09-30 at 13:58.
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Old 2006-09-30, 14:16   Link #30
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Flash
This is not BTW, it is precisely the point, your opinion make you say something which isn't fact.
What part? that he is not THAT important to the History? or that his skills are not Sanin pottential? once again, I dont find him interesting, that does not means I will wear a collar wiht Kabutos name on it saying how cool he is (Axtayanax, this is not alluding to you....), Unlike you, I dont have a mental obsesion wiht a Fictional character.

Kabuto has not been A very Important character as of late, his last real important role was at the beggining of the Chunin exams, after this, he has always been in Oros Shadows. If Kishi decides to make him Very Imporatanti in the future thats another story, but those are just speculations and/or wishes.

And I decided to Ignore the realtions you have mentioned, because those meetinng are irrelevant and does not indicate the level of importance in a Character. Looking back, Its really funny the reason why you think Kabuto is the most important Villain in the story: no villain has been around as long as kabuto.
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Last edited by Rurik; 2006-09-30 at 14:40.
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Old 2006-09-30, 16:22   Link #31
Lollerpants
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I remember lurking when FBK was still here.

FBK or YF. I think YF is more amusing.

Ontopic:

I'm somewhat inclined to believe that Kabuto had to deal with Kimimaro's disease; but then again I'm also skeptical Kimimaro will be revisited in the future.
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Old 2006-09-30, 17:08   Link #32
Airaku
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ano...what hell just happened?

did the subject get drop
I went to bathroom for only min, where the hell did it go?



EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lollerpants
I'm somewhat inclined to believe that Kabuto had to deal with Kimimaro's disease; but then again I'm also skeptical Kimimaro will be revisited in the future.
I think that too, Kimimaro is history...
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Old 2006-10-01, 08:36   Link #33
astayanax
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Orochimaru went to Tsunade (no doubt after trying to get help from Kabuto with his arms) because he was inflicted with something that Kabuto wasn't specialized in. Even though Kabuto rivals Tsunade in their talents, they both focus on different things (actually if I remember correct, Tsunade was able to save Rock Lee from what she witness in her fight with Kabuto/Orochimaru) and we have seen other things that Kabuto can do which Tsunade can't do (Chakra Scalpels, healing from a distance and so forth). Then while not really a factor in itself, we have to consider their ages. Kabuto is a young teenager (although there are some theories floating about with him being much older) compare to a proclaimed legend who has decades of experience. He is easily a prodigy.

Now I guess it is obvious that Kimmi got his disease from his genetics or what not; but I am finding it hard to believe that Kabuto couldn't do anything because he had 'no info'. Not only did he and Orochimaru (who wanted the body more than anything except for Itachi) has the means of getting the information they want, Kabuto did manage to keep him alive and in good health (well bearing the fact that Kimmi was bed ridden) for a long time and when Kimmimaro left to go after Sasuke, he was -no where- close to dying.

Now we all may disagree, but I am sticking with this. It is a plot device, just like Kabuto standing there and taking Rasengan, just like Sasori and Hidan playing the ass and so forth.
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Old 2006-10-01, 11:47   Link #34
Dauthi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik
What part? that he is not THAT important to the History? or that his skills are not Sanin pottential? once again, I dont find him interesting, that does not means I will wear a collar wiht Kabutos name on it saying how cool he is (Axtayanax, this is not alluding to you....), Unlike you, I dont have a mental obsesion wiht a Fictional character.

Kabuto has not been A very Important character as of late, his last real important role was at the beggining of the Chunin exams, after this, he has always been in Oros Shadows. If Kishi decides to make him Very Imporatanti in the future thats another story, but those are just speculations and/or wishes.

And I decided to Ignore the realtions you have mentioned, because those meetinng are irrelevant and does not indicate the level of importance in a Character. Looking back, Its really funny the reason why you think Kabuto is the most important Villain in the story: no villain has been around as long as kabuto.
I agree that kabuto's character has fallen on a massive degree. In the beggining he had a mysterious edge to him, people wonder what he is going to do, if he is more powerful than he looks, etc.

But that was a long time ago, and since we have only learned one thing about him (possibly the only twist in his character's plot), that he was supposed to be a spy for akatsuki. He hasn't shown a lot of power, hes technique's aren't too impressive.

And for god sakes people, he got beaten by naruto! He is nowhere near sannin potential. He beat tsunade by being a little weener and throwing blood at her. Kakashi states this guy could be better than him, but again they didnt fight, so you have to assume its because he outsmarted him.

His character while fresh was fun, but now has grown very stale. Now he seems nothing more than a scheming underling of Oro, who is very loyal to him (i was hoping this wasn't true, but it is which is lame story wise), and seems to be great at setting up traps and plotting. This kind of character doesn't in any way, seem very important. If he died.. it wouldn't change a whole lot.
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Old 2006-10-08, 14:32   Link #35
Ichimaru
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Ive done alot of thinkin

The time orochimaru was testing on anko with the CS, CS was still in early development, at that time i dont think it was clearly finished. Then ORO was exiled from KONOHA, then he met Kimimaru. But during that period and 3-4 years he had spies in KONOHA workin for him, that mizuki guy whatever his name is that stole the hidden scroll, he also tested CS but it fuckd up on him as seen in the fillers.

My assumption here is the time Oro gave Mizuki the CS theory, he mustve had used it also on Kimimaru. The new CS theory must have been redefined by ORO with the success of the other sound4 members and sasuke. So he used an earlier theory which fuckd up on kimimaru. Even the scientist that was helpin ORO was still tryin to finish the project as shown in the fillers.

His bloodlimit mustve had a bad reaction to CS, or CS was still in its early stages not completed yet, being used on kimimaru which stuffd up.
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Old 2006-10-11, 19:34   Link #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astayanax View Post
Orochimaru has the power to raise the dead and extract whatever information he wants from them.
True but keep in mind that he can't do that now since he can't use any of his techniques since the third like took of his arms. Maybe Kimmimaro awakened by himself or something after Orichimaru lost his arms.
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Old 2006-10-12, 17:57   Link #37
astayanax
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True but keep in mind that he can't do that now since he can't use any of his techniques since the third like took of his arms. Maybe Kimmimaro awakened by himself or something after Orichimaru lost his arms.
There was a short period of time Orochimaru couldn't use his jutsus; but Kimmimaro was bed ridden long before this. Even so, Orochimaru got his powers back anyway by transferring himself to a less desirable target.

Quote:
But that was a long time ago, and since we have only learned one thing about him (possibly the only twist in his character's plot), that he was supposed to be a spy for akatsuki. He hasn't shown a lot of power, hes technique's aren't too impressive.
I heavily disagree. Quite the contrary, Kabuto shown some of the best techniques in the entire series, which is even more astonishing considering his age.

- He has a taijutsu style that rivals Jyuuken in the sense that not only can't you block the attacks (you have to deflect or dodge), but that they will completely disable the body part that is hit in one blow (similiar to how Jyuuken works but on a stronger scale)

- He has a regenerative jutsu that can help him survive attacks that could kill just about anyone. Contrary to belief, getting hit by a well powered Rasengen is no laughing matter. Everyone else who had shown such a jutsu in the way it works (Tsunade, Orochimaru, and certain Akatsuki members) are extremely powerful.

- He has shown one of the best healing jutsus to date.
Spoiler:


- Without even trying, he had used a genjutsu attack that took out virtually an entire stadium of people. Only the best were able to shrug it off.

Quote:
And for god sakes people, he got beaten by naruto!
Naruto didn't beat Kabuto. He didn't even come close pre timeskip. Kabuto actually had defeated Naruto.

Quote:
He beat tsunade by being a little weener and throwing blood at her.
Actually, he defeated Tsunade by using strategy and using her strength against her. He only resorted to her fear of blood AFTER Jiraiya came into the scene and was looking to double team him with Tsunade (in his eyes).

Quote:
His character while fresh was fun, but now has grown very stale. Now he seems nothing more than a scheming underling of Oro, who is very loyal to him (i was hoping this wasn't true, but it is which is lame story wise), and seems to be great at setting up traps and plotting. This kind of character doesn't in any way, seem very important. If he died.. it wouldn't change a whole lot.
Spoiler:
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Old 2006-10-16, 06:54   Link #38
Hunter
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Originally Posted by astayanax View Post
Actually, he defeated Tsunade by using strategy and using her strength against her. He only resorted to her fear of blood AFTER Jiraiya came into the scene and was looking to double team him with Tsunade (in his eyes).
Actually he decided to use her bloodfear just before Jiraiya came into the scene.
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Old 2006-10-16, 13:25   Link #39
Suna no tate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
I think the illness was a consequence of all the crazy medical/other experimentation of Orochimaru and Kabuto. To become forcibly so strong there must be some negative effects on him. And now we see how Sakura says that Sasuke's speed and power seems extreme, there must be some forbidden/bad way it was achieved.
However Sasuke will be saved from the bad effects before he gets a similar illness.
Orochimaru collapses, his new body rejects him, Sasori can never achive a perfect puppet body, Itachi maybe going blind, etc... I think it's a fundamental moral message from Kishimoto, which determines the laws of this manga: these people will never achieve their ultimate goals.
On the other hand it's funny to see that Kabuto is too human, and with that he is quite weak between all those monsters. He seems to be like an evil scientist, doing all those experiments, but never risking his own health, he uses his test subjects: Oro, Kimimaro, Sasuke, and the thousands of unknown people.
Kabuto has something hidden. Didn't he say something about a red eyed monster in side?

Plus he was strong enough to kill an ANBU member (though they haven''t exactly proven themselves to be any good) and smart enough to outwit Kakashi and he did say something like you need 10 Anbu guys to stop me... so he's obviously no weakling.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinder View Post
overstatement? Both Kabuto and Kakashi have sannin potencial. They have a geniality in diferent ways, kakashi with elemental jutsus and some taijutsu (sharingan helping, and he even manages genjutsus and sealing jutsus aswell) and Kabuto with medial jutsus. Both analisation skills are awsome and they have the capability of thinking ahead far from the normal.

No, it was not an overstatement.
Kakashi is already so respected. Everyone knows him just by looking at him (or at least confuses him for his father). Its not every ninja thats listed in the bingo book. Why isn't Kakashi sannin level? Well its true that he hasn't been doing dangerous missions for a while. In the zabuza arc he says something like " its been a long time since I've been in such a dangerous fight" (keep in mind zabuza, while a jounin, isn't a real badboy). And when he encounters Kabuto he says "I can't defeat him the way I am now". He just out of shape thats all. But he has all the right stuff. Like Jiraiya and the 3rd, he knows a wide variety of skills and that alone should give him sannin status. Which is why I feel naruto should give up on his windy rasengan, and simply make a lot of clones and quickly learn all of Kakashis skills, so he too will be sannin level. It'd only take him like 3 days to learn all 1000 jutsus.

and when people start learning about that space time mangekyou sharingan of his, they'll start ponying up the respect and all the ladies will come flocking. But kakashi will choose icha icha over them. IIOB. Icha Icha over broads!
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Old 2006-10-23, 11:58   Link #40
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Well, it had to happen eventually. -shrug- I didn't like Kimimaro much, personally--but then again, I usually hold a grudge against someone that tries to kill my precious Lee...

Except Gaara, but I did hate him for quite a while.
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