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Old 2006-10-02, 00:59   Link #61
Radd
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You know, at the beginning of every single generation, yes every generation, I hear a couple of people go, "This new generation just isn't going to be worth it. Why get a new system? Why can't they just keep making games for the old ones?" And every single generation, those people give in, get a new console, love it, and forget they everspouted such nonsense in the first place.

Just a thought.
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Old 2006-10-02, 06:48   Link #62
Itachikun
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What in god's name are you talking about? Next gen not worth it? Sure the classics will always remain classic, but if you stay in the past you will never be able to adapt.

EXAMPLE:-

On the topic of overpriced, you need to discuss Sales and Expenses.... for example, PS2 were to have $60,000,000 in sales, while it's expenses are at $55,000,000, which gives an income of 5 million. Now with the GC you have like $10,000,000 in sales and $5,000,000, you still get the 5 million in income. So the question is, who really made it with the profit? Simple, its the GC.

The same tactics will be played by Nintendo with the Wii. Just 6 weeks to go
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Old 2006-10-02, 09:48   Link #63
wsheit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoit
(referring to FFXIII) The trailer is fake. You've been owned.
umm....fanboy?
I think I've heard a couple of people say this on these forums. There's absolutely no indication that the trailer is "fake". We all knew the Killzone trailer was fake because the developer was Guerilla. This is Square Enix. They know how to make beautiful looking games- and FFXIII is a far way off, so they have time to create a full game of content that looks this good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86
FFXII seems meh to me...nobody looks anywhere near as good as Yuna in her songstress outfit.
I guess I'm late to the party, but.....this comment left me speechless...
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Old 2006-10-02, 11:27   Link #64
Radd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsheit
here's absolutely no indication that the trailer is "fake". We all knew the Killzone trailer was fake because the developer was Guerilla. This is Square Enix. They know how to make beautiful looking games- and FFXIII is a far way off, so they have time to create a full game of content that looks this good.

Er, I'm not going to suggest the trailer was fake, but your reasoning here is flawed. The FF8 dance scene tech demo for the PS2 was fake (well, it was running on a PS2 chipset, just augmented with far more memory and power than the PS2 had), and Final Fantasy:TSW test footage was used to show off the PS2 Emotion Engine, and we all know the PS2 never came close to being capable of rendering anything as detailed as TSW.

Right there is a history of Square abetting Sony's tendency to overhype their hardware.

Also, we knew the Killzone trailer was fake because both the people who created the trailer, and those designing the, then uncompleted, PS3 graphics chipset said as much before Sony had them tossed in sacks, drugged, and left in a shack in Indoneisa.

As for whether or not this current trailer is fake? I'm inclined to believe it is a mock-up simply because the game is so early in developement. I have no supposition on whether or not the final game will look as nice.
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Old 2006-10-02, 12:30   Link #65
wsheit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radd
Er, I'm not going to suggest the trailer was fake, but your reasoning here is flawed. The FF8 dance scene tech demo for the PS2 was fake (well, it was running on a PS2 chipset, just augmented with far more memory and power than the PS2 had), and Final Fantasy:TSW test footage was used to show off the PS2 Emotion Engine, and we all know the PS2 never came close to being capable of rendering anything as detailed as TSW.

Right there is a history of Square abetting Sony's tendency to overhype their hardware.

Also, we knew the Killzone trailer was fake because both the people who created the trailer, and those designing the, then uncompleted, PS3 graphics chipset said as much before Sony had them tossed in sacks, drugged, and left in a shack in Indoneisa.

As for whether or not this current trailer is fake? I'm inclined to believe it is a mock-up simply because the game is so early in developement. I have no supposition on whether or not the final game will look as nice.
crap!....I knew somebody would eventually post precisely what you wrote. I guess I'm just enough of a Sony fanboy to think that it won't happen again. It does seem, though, that we saw some actual gameplay, and the actual PS3 architecture has been around long enough that it may not be a mockup. Most of it, of course, was clearly cinematics- and I have no problem at all believing that cinematics for FFXIII will look that good.
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Old 2006-10-02, 12:50   Link #66
Demongod86
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Actually, wsheit, we couldn't really tell how much was cinematics, because it converted pretty seamlessly to the point where the girl (is she named Lightning?) launched an attack and the numbers went flying up on the screen. You only really start to see polygons once you get REALLY close up, though I think PS3 still has slightly a bit more room to improve graphicswise before it turns into making gameplay graphics look like AC.
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Old 2006-10-02, 14:37   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark`
Actually, I've watched the trailers and read previews and...well, I like what I see. Of course, my tastes do seem to differ from yours on this alone. I also disagree about FF getting ruined...but that's your opinion and I can't deny you that. I just don't agree with that assessment.
Oh yes, DO turn FF into an action game! The only one who seems to mind is me. It all started with the jumping function
Although I didn't mind the jumping. But now everything is being changed. Seriously, if I want an action game, I'll just go buy one. Ever since SquareSoft merged with Enix, these things started happening. Before I got pissed off by people who were complaining about the FF series changing too much, but now it's going too far and I'm one of them too. I wish we could just get rid of Enix, and turn FF back into what it should be. An RPG.

Oh yeah, there's also the matter of them only focusing on graphics since the merge. Story and gameplay? What's that?
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Old 2006-10-02, 15:08   Link #68
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WiFi is relatively slower, higher latency, and in general more flaky than ethernet connections. All three of these are things you absolutely want to minimize/live without especially for gaming. So not having wifi is not really a minus for me, if you live in a house running ethernet cables through the attic is really easy. In an apartment, you can do that or there are a few other options depending on your lease's rules to avoid just having a cable on the floor. In dorms...well your connection can't be too far away if you've got one at all, and as far as I know none of the school's I know people at are stupid enough to have pure wireless connections in their dorms.
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Old 2006-10-02, 15:49   Link #69
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WiFi is a nice option to have for people like me who can't really run anymore ethernet cables around the house. Indeed it might be a tad bit slower, but it is not slow to the point where it crawls. If you have 802.11g you are fine and dandy, my laptop handles fine watching anime over the network you just can't do multiple network related things at once. Also moving large files via wifi is a nono unless you want to watch snails race

I only have 1 long cable that has been worked through the walls when I first moved in here, and that cable is for the computer in the living room I use to watch anime on TV with. Also all the plugs in my router/switch are full already (4 port) and I'm not really looking into buying an 8 port wireless or a switch.

When I do get a 360, I will need to invest in that wireless addon ($99 *cry*)
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Old 2006-10-02, 16:36   Link #70
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dunno why you need wireless, its more or less useless for long internet play.

I probably might use the wireless with my DS, but it'll depend on the games I have.

Honestly, until something more reliable, best to stick to good old fashion cables.

mind you, electrical lan is good alternative, using your electrical wires instead of wireless.
As long as you plug it directly into the socket and not though a multisocket extention with other apllication, its gives the same results as normal lan cables. Quite handy when you think about it, however the question is wether you have two extra spare unused wall plugs near your modem and your pc is debatable.
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Old 2006-10-02, 16:44   Link #71
wsheit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uLTraCarL-
When I do get a 360, I will need to invest in that wireless addon ($99 *cry*)
yeah...I "99 dollar cried" last Friday. I feel your pain in advance.
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Old 2006-10-02, 16:45   Link #72
alpha3six
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I don't understand why people keep referring to the PS2 FFVIII Dance tech demo as an example of fakery. Maybe they haven't seen them recently, or are still dazzled by nostalgia, or never saw them in the first place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6R0PQD6Qm8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCBTBmTK8Qw

It was impressive in the PS1 era, but that was before we were used to any sort of detailed 3d graphics with motion captured movement. The tech demo simply had Squall and Rinoa dancing alone in a sparse environment, with none of the fine detail present in the FFVIII CG sequence and no other characters. In other words, nothing that you wouldn't find in a quality mid-late era PS2 game with realtime cutscenes.

Likewise the Spirits Within facial animation tech demo would have been seen as nothing special in 2003.

Last edited by alpha3six; 2006-10-02 at 17:46.
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Old 2006-10-02, 16:54   Link #73
wsheit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha3six
I don't understand why people keep referring to the PS2 FFVIII Dance tech demo as an example of fakery. Maybe they haven't seen them recently, or are still dazzled by nostalgia, or never saw them in the first place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6R0PQD6Qm8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCBTBmTK8Qw

It was impressive in the PS1 era, but that was before we were used to any sort of detailed 3d graphics with motion captured movement. The tech demo was simply had Squall and Rinoa dancing alone in a sparse environment, with none of the fine detail present in the FFVIII CG sequence and no other characters. In other words, nothing that you wouldn't find in a quality mid-late era PS2 game with realtime cutscenes.

Likewise the Spirits Within facial animation tech demo would have been seen as nothing special in 2003.
I hadn't seen those myself....you seem to be quite correct.
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Old 2006-10-02, 19:22   Link #74
Lebron
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Originally Posted by uLTraCarL-
When I do get a 360, I will need to invest in that wireless addon ($99 *cry*)
If you got a notebook, you can just use that as your wireless addon. Just connect a Enet cable from it to your 360 and allow internet sharing on your notebook, and bam $100 saved. Thats what I use, aswell
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Old 2006-10-02, 20:47   Link #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO
dunno why you need wireless, its more or less useless for long internet play.

I probably might use the wireless with my DS, but it'll depend on the games I have.

Honestly, until something more reliable, best to stick to good old fashion cables.

mind you, electrical lan is good alternative, using your electrical wires instead of wireless.
As long as you plug it directly into the socket and not though a multisocket extention with other apllication, its gives the same results as normal lan cables. Quite handy when you think about it, however the question is wether you have two extra spare unused wall plugs near your modem and your pc is debatable.
I myself would rather be wired than wireless due to the amount of files I transfer between my computers but I had I stated I'm not really in a position to do so.
Indeed I can go out and buy a 100 foot ethernet cable, but then what? Let it run on the carpet exposed and whoever doesn't see it trip over it? I don't think so, not in my house. I want it as clean as possible, no wires exposed if at all possible.

Which brings me to my second point regarding internet sharing
Quote:
If you got a notebook, you can just use that as your wireless addon. Just connect a Enet cable from it to your 360 and allow internet sharing on your notebook, and bam $100 saved. Thats what I use, aswell
Does 2K have that feature? I don't ever recall seeing such a feature -_-
I refuse to change it to XP for personal reasons.

This is how my living room is setup mainly, subtract that chair (used to play beatmania) and thats how it goes.
Spoiler:


A wire to the laptop would be also exposed wires but I could probably live with that for the cost of 100 dollars saved lol
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Old 2006-10-02, 22:34   Link #76
Radd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha3six
I don't understand why people keep referring to the PS2 FFVIII Dance tech demo as an example of fakery. Maybe they haven't seen them recently, or are still dazzled by nostalgia, or never saw them in the first place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6R0PQD6Qm8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCBTBmTK8Qw

It was impressive in the PS1 era, but that was before we were used to any sort of detailed 3d graphics with motion captured movement. The tech demo simply had Squall and Rinoa dancing alone in a sparse environment, with none of the fine detail present in the FFVIII CG sequence and no other characters. In other words, nothing that you wouldn't find in a quality mid-late era PS2 game with realtime cutscenes.

Likewise the Spirits Within facial animation tech demo would have been seen as nothing special in 2003.
However, no PS2 games managed to look as good for a while after launch. Still, you're quite right, the FF8 demo was surpassed, eventually.

Also, for the FF8 demo you have to remember that the point is not how good the graphics were in hindsight, but that Sony claimed it was running on final PS2 hardware, when that turned out to be a bald faced lie.

Now, for the TWS demo, if you think that would be nothing special for a game console in 2003, you need your glasses checked, my friend. There are no games for the PS2, Gamecube, or Xbox with characters that detailed or expressive. Unless you speak of just a single head floating on a black background, it's just not possible for this previous generation, and even then I have my doubts. Sony, though, was touting the PS2 as being capable of this level of detail and expression in PS2 games. The reality is we won't see that level of detail even in this coming generation.

http://www.gamecritics.com/feature/r...no/image05.jpg
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Old 2006-10-02, 22:57   Link #77
Demongod86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uLTraCarL-
I myself would rather be wired than wireless due to the amount of files I transfer between my computers but I had I stated I'm not really in a position to do so.
Indeed I can go out and buy a 100 foot ethernet cable, but then what? Let it run on the carpet exposed and whoever doesn't see it trip over it? I don't think so, not in my house. I want it as clean as possible, no wires exposed if at all possible.

Which brings me to my second point regarding internet sharing

Does 2K have that feature? I don't ever recall seeing such a feature -_-
I refuse to change it to XP for personal reasons.

This is how my living room is setup mainly, subtract that chair (used to play beatmania) and thats how it goes.
Spoiler:


A wire to the laptop would be also exposed wires but I could probably live with that for the cost of 100 dollars saved lol
Dood, do you have time to play with all that?!
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Old 2006-10-02, 23:29   Link #78
alpha3six
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radd
However, no PS2 games managed to look as good for a while after launch. Still, you're quite right, the FF8 demo was surpassed, eventually.

Also, for the FF8 demo you have to remember that the point is not how good the graphics were in hindsight, but that Sony claimed it was running on final PS2 hardware, when that turned out to be a bald faced lie.
If they delivered the results, does it matter in the end if they what kind of hardware they used for the demo?

Of the three major console hypefests in this generation, only Nintendo didn't attempt to dazzle us with fake graphics, but Sony gets singled out for some reason.

Quote:
Now, for the TWS demo, if you think that would be nothing special for a game console in 2003, you need your glasses checked, my friend. There are no games for the PS2, Gamecube, or Xbox with characters that detailed or expressive. Unless you speak of just a single head floating on a black background, it's just not possible for this previous generation, and even then I have my doubts. Sony, though, was touting the PS2 as being capable of this level of detail and expression in PS2 games. The reality is we won't see that level of detail even in this coming generation.
Yes, I meant a "single head floating on a black background." PS2 is capable of rendering that. I suspect they were inspired in part by Dreamcast's tech demo which also featured a floating head with (cruder) facial expressions. Tech demos almost always look better than actual games anyway.

Of course the term "Emotion Engine" was coined for marketing purposes, and the facial animation demo was supposed to "imply" certain things, but I don't remember if Sony ever promised that level of facial animation detail in actual games or if that was a media interpretation. The Emotion Engine was supposed to be able to create graphics capable of stirring the emotions of the player... which is a rather meaningless claim by itself. Most people probably have no idea what an Emotion Engine is so it's a moot point.

In any case, bashing companies for what they (or the sensationalist media) promise in the hypefest before major launches is pointless, because all that stuff is forgotten once the hardware and games are released...except when resurrected in threads like this. In my opinion, fudged tech demos are nowhere near as bad as the supposedly in-game "bullshots"(Thank you Penny Arcade) you see all the time on game sites which look many times better than the actual games. High resolution, 16x antialiasing, ultradetailed textures, the whole works...for Xbox and PS2 games.
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Old 2006-10-02, 23:31   Link #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86
Dood, do you have time to play with all that?!
with what?
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Old 2006-10-03, 00:27   Link #80
Lumir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebron
you do realize true RPGS are suppose to allow you to create your own story, right? Create your own character and ablities, right? Just letting you know, you seem to be confused on the defintion of a true RPG is.
Sorry but that is incorrect. RPG stands for Role-Playing-Game. Simply put you play the role of a character that is already in a story or about to begin one. Now you can alter some parts of the story depending on what you do and what game it is, but the over-all story has a pre-set course.

And for those saying Sony always over-hypes there systems, that is incorrect as well... hype is created by the fans/people through thier response to new things, sony dose not control these people and how they react.
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