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Old 2008-08-22, 12:20   Link #16521
Sheba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
I haven't read BetrayerS yet (Planning to after work) but I doubt it'll be a disappointment... Since I know I'm just looking at it for the battles I already said screw the plot from the teaser.

Just give us fights
Pssst, you look for the girl to girl angst too.



To those disappointed by the story then labeling it as fail .Instead of sitting around and keeping on pimping that your vision of an universe gonna be good, awesome and epic, just write it down, public will then judge if it delivered or not.

And when I say, write it down. I don't mean a summary, or something like that. But actually the beginning of a story.
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Old 2008-08-22, 12:21   Link #16522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPHaru View Post
I think the action was pretty decent for StrikerS' standard, but I should agree with you, the fighting scene between Nanoha and Fate was a complete disappointment, the kids having to come to save her was ridiculous, I even felt ashamed of the author when I saw that scene.
I don't think so.

The reason why Fate chan was saved by the "kids" was soley based on her mentality at that point. If you think about it, she has been through so much with Nanoha as a friend (or more than that if you count on the words of fanboys) that the decision to fight her in a battle of death again becomes something of a worse case scenario. Looking at it on the surface you only see how she was disappoining to be "defeated" so easily but I would think that her mentality isn't exactly the best.

How long has this war been going for? How many people has died? How many more times must they fight like this? Wouldn't it just be easier to give up?
With those kind of thoughts going through her mind she seems to have come to the conclusion to just let Nanoha blast her as a way of escaping this "endless, torturing pain."

As you know though, Fate chan isn't a leader...she much prefers to follow orders. But perhaps the order to kill Nanoha was too much? From what I can see it looks like Fate chan wasn't giving it her all in that fight at all (otherwise such puny binds would have been broken easily). I believe this is one great role reversal from the old Fate chan to when she is now grown up. Back in S1 it was Nanoha who saved her from darkness, now it is her turn.

/Fate chan support.

I hope someone would translate this though as it is just too good to not be
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Old 2008-08-22, 12:26   Link #16523
Sheba
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I side with the Fuhrer Yagami fyi. I just hope that she meets a more climatic end than Light and his swimming lessons.
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Old 2008-08-22, 12:33   Link #16524
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I agree with Deathkillz on the Fate matter (well, maybe not on the 'easilly break binds' bit, but that's my automatic Nanoha support flaring up. ) Fate obviously wasn't giving it her all during that fight, and the moment she decided she might try and take it seriously, Nanoha had already lured her into a trap and snapped her with a bind. Now do remember that Nanoha's binds are nothing to sniff at, they were responsible for Fate's defeat before after all.
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Old 2008-08-22, 12:35   Link #16525
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And I can see why Subaru is serving Hayate

Spoiler for Spoilers:
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Old 2008-08-22, 12:46   Link #16526
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Originally Posted by asaqe View Post
And I can see why Subaru is serving Hayate

Spoiler for Spoilers:
Wasn't it the other way around? Subaru helped Fate to fight off Nanoha, who was on Hayate's side.
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Old 2008-08-22, 13:02   Link #16527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Heh. We're like oposite sides here. I was dreading that the artist would turn it into yet another NanoFate doujin, and shaft all the other characters. And I was glad to find out that Fate got a token fight, much atention was spend on the other characters as well. Subaru damn near scored a hit if Vita hadn't interfered, that was a really tense page.
Thing is I was expecting a full-blown Nanoha vs Fate throwdown of epic proportions, like the ongoing fight between Archer and Archerko in Sword Dancers. I don't know if you saw the BetrayerS homepage, Kero, but the way the teaser scenes and storyline synopsis led up to that two-page Nano/Fate spectacle at the end felt distinctly like a movie trailer showcasing what the doujin was supposed to be all about; there's a reason for Nanoha and Fate to fight again, so now they're going to go at each other "with their balls out and hair on fire" as I believe the saying goes. Sadly this is a case of the trailer being more awesome than the actual product it was advertising.

Or to put it another way: imagine watching one of the movie trailers for The Dark Knight and getting all hyped up about it, then going to watch it in theaters only to discover that the Joker is nothing but a bit character and Batman spends the whole movie beating up thugs. That's kind of like what BetrayerS felt like to me.
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Old 2008-08-22, 13:13   Link #16528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
I agree with Deathkillz on the Fate matter (well, maybe not on the 'easilly break binds' bit, but that's my automatic Nanoha support flaring up. ) Fate obviously wasn't giving it her all during that fight, and the moment she decided she might try and take it seriously, Nanoha had already lured her into a trap and snapped her with a bind. Now do remember that Nanoha's binds are nothing to sniff at, they were responsible for Fate's defeat before after all.
Fine, fine

Though it isn't the fact that the "bonds are tight" which was the problem, but rather she just gave up trying at all.

@ Comartemis ~ well I guess I can see your side of the story...poor Hayate getting shafted from the action again. But I am expecting a second part to this epic story

At least give them a chance to redeem themselves for what is obviously a well thought about plot rather than a one shot mash of whatever you can get you hands on (sticks and stones for example).
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Old 2008-08-22, 13:16   Link #16529
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Like I said, mages, being mages, do not know how to properly use artillery.
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Old 2008-08-22, 13:29   Link #16530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
Thing is I was expecting a full-blown Nanoha vs Fate throwdown of epic proportions, like the ongoing fight between Archer and Archerko in Sword Dancers. I don't know if you saw the BetrayerS homepage, Kero, but the way the teaser scenes and storyline synopsis led up to that two-page Nano/Fate spectacle at the end felt distinctly like a movie trailer showcasing what the doujin was supposed to be all about; there's a reason for Nanoha and Fate to fight again, so now they're going to go at each other "with their balls out and hair on fire" as I believe the saying goes. Sadly this is a case of the trailer being more awesome than the actual product it was advertising.

Or to put it another way: imagine watching one of the movie trailers for The Dark Knight and getting all hyped up about it, then going to watch it in theaters only to discover that the Joker is nothing but a bit character and Batman spends the whole movie beating up thugs. That's kind of like what BetrayerS felt like to me.
I suppose its a good thing I never had such expectations then. I did see the homepage, but the addition of so many characters aside from Nanoha and fate kind of lowered my expectations that it was going to be centered around Nanoha and Fate, and what little remained was more a dread that it would end up shafting those other characters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
Fine, fine

Though it isn't the fact that the "bonds are tight" which was the problem, but rather she just gave up trying at all.
True. She closes her eyes waiting for the final blow after the binds snap shut, a clear sign of someone giving up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Like I said, mages, being mages, do not know how to properly use artillery.
And its a good thing they don't! I'd lose all my tasty melee fights they day they do.
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Old 2008-08-22, 13:30   Link #16531
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
And its a good thing they don't! I'd lose all my tasty melee fights they day they do.
But then if they did, Hayate would be less shafted, since more people would utilise her.
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Old 2008-08-22, 13:37   Link #16532
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I was challenged to use Otto and shop her into a male OC, and I've done it, but the next time somebody says Otto is a perfect reverse trap, they are cake-ing! It took a lot of pinching and pulling, erasing and pasting and even then the goddamned corset was in the way!

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Old 2008-08-22, 13:48   Link #16533
Sheba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
I was challenged to use Otto and shop her into a male OC, and I've done it, but the next time somebody says Otto is a perfect reverse trap, they are cake-ing! It took a lot of pinching and pulling, erasing and pasting and even then the goddamned corset was in the way!

Otto is a perfect reverse trap.
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Old 2008-08-22, 13:49   Link #16534
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
But then if they did, Hayate would be less shafted, since more people would utilise her.
But you'd be shafting Fate, Signum, Vita, Subaru, Erio, Zafira, Yuuno, Chrono and (if my theory of her future powers are correct) Vivio in the process.
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Old 2008-08-22, 13:50   Link #16535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
Thing is I was expecting a full-blown Nanoha vs Fate throwdown of epic proportions, like the ongoing fight between Archer and Archerko in Sword Dancers. I don't know if you saw the BetrayerS homepage, Kero, but the way the teaser scenes and storyline synopsis led up to that two-page Nano/Fate spectacle at the end felt distinctly like a movie trailer showcasing what the doujin was supposed to be all about; there's a reason for Nanoha and Fate to fight again, so now they're going to go at each other "with their balls out and hair on fire" as I believe the saying goes. Sadly this is a case of the trailer being more awesome than the actual product it was advertising.

Or to put it another way: imagine watching one of the movie trailers for The Dark Knight and getting all hyped up about it, then going to watch it in theaters only to discover that the Joker is nothing but a bit character and Batman spends the whole movie beating up thugs. That's kind of like what BetrayerS felt like to me.
Unfortunately this is how i feel/felt. It was good but I feel kind of disappointed =(.
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Old 2008-08-22, 13:54   Link #16536
Sheba
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To be fair. There are no translation yet so we cannot fully grasp the story. But to call it a miserable failure. Pleeeeeaaase...
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Old 2008-08-22, 14:09   Link #16537
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Otto is a perfect reverse trap.
The Trap is a LIE!

And if they truly went full bombardment, then mage battles would become a boring shooting game. Until they discover how to hide in cover from homing shots.
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Old 2008-08-22, 14:13   Link #16538
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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
The Trap is a LIE!

And if they truly went full bombardment, then mage battles would become a boring shooting game. Until they discover how to hide in cover from homing shots.
Mage battles are already a "boring shooting game", Kha. I'm just pointing out that this is Hayate's niche and her role. It's not her fault nobody knows how to properly employ her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
But you'd be shafting Fate, Signum, Vita, Subaru, Erio, Zafira, Yuuno, Chrono and (if my theory of her future powers are correct) Vivio in the process.
See, your problen, Keroko, is that you've got an all or nothing approach, failing to realise that everyone has a niche and a role where they are best suited. One on one antimage in close quarters? Of course you use everyone else. Wide open aerial battles? NanoFateVitaSigChrono again. Large scale destruction of massive enemy force?

This is where you call in Hayate.

It's all about the employment.
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Old 2008-08-22, 14:19   Link #16539
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Mage battles are already a "boring shooting game", Kha. I'm just pointing out that this is Hayate's niche and her role. It's not her fault nobody knows how to properly employ her.
Nanoha battles are most often mid-ranged, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
See, your problen, Keroko, is that you've got an all or nothing approach, failing to realise that everyone has a niche and a role where they are best suited. One on one antimage in close quarters? Of course you use everyone else. Wide open aerial battles? NanoFateVitaSigChrono again. Large scale destruction of massive enemy force?

This is where you call in Hayate.

It's all about the employment.
Well, you guys are the ones who keep telling me that close-range doesn't stand a chance against long-range, and if mages would use their artilery skills no melee would stand a chance against them, so can you blame me?

Speaking of close-range, I found this image of Nanoha with a different sort of Raising Heart:

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Old 2008-08-22, 14:25   Link #16540
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It's TK who tells you that, not me. Franz is a primarily melee user with some ranged combat skills, mostly so that he can trade fire with the enemy until he gets into rage.

Besides, when I say artillery, I'm talking about forward observers guiding Hayate's shots, spotting for her, like that snippet of TF6 that I posted in the OC thread. Most mages tend to believe the one-man-army hype.
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