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Old 2009-04-28, 09:00   Link #1081
Iromaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Was StrikerS called a harem because Erio was surrounded a dozen awesome girls? Sure, there were jokes about it, but really?
Well some people called Nanoha A's a harem because of Chrono :P But jokes asside Erio was just a little kid. He was young enought to bathe with them.


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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
While in terms of power you are right, comparing them personality wise is subjective. I found the forwards to be very interesting, and worthy of passing the torch. I also find Fate to be a very uninteresting character. Am I right? No, because this is my opinion. So saying that the forwards 'are not half as awesome as the old generation' personality wise is wholefully inaccurate.
I absolutely agree that forwards had potential, but IMO it was (almost) completely wasted.


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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
I think we just recently pointed out that many things in Nanoha have been done thousands of times.
The thing is, today it's almost impossible to do something 100% original. Nanoha anime managed to show cliche situations in a new way, and executted them perfectly.
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Old 2009-04-28, 09:38   Link #1082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromaru View Post
Well some people called Nanoha A's a harem because of Chrono :P But jokes asside Erio was just a little kid. He was young enought to bathe with them.
Whoa, they did? Awesome, missed that.


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Originally Posted by Iromaru View Post
I absolutely agree that forwards had potential, but IMO it was (almost) completely wasted.
I'm well aware of that. SSX fixed a lot of that damage though.

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Originally Posted by Iromaru View Post
The thing is, today it's almost impossible to do something 100% original. Nanoha anime managed to show cliche situations in a new way, and executted them perfectly.
Of course, this also renders your complaint irrelevant.
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Old 2009-04-28, 10:23   Link #1083
Iromaru
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Of course, this also renders your complaint irrelevant.
Well not really. This damsel in distress page looks exactly the same as hundreds of similar scenes from other manga. Cute scared girl being rescued by a cool guy, of course she'll have a crush on him from now on.

Nanoha and Nanoha A's managed to handle endlessly reused ideas in an original way. I'll use your older post to show what I mean:

Quote:
Nanoha carrying a near unconscious Fate in her arms? Cliche.
It's not so cliche if the person holding the unconcious girl is another girl. And in how many such scenes the person being holded isn't a weak defenceless girl that was just saved by a guy, but a spellcaster capable of vaporising cities that was just defeated bu another girl in magical battle?

Quote:
Bridge goodbye scene? Cliche.
Again it's not so cliche if this farewell is between two young girls that pretty much declared love for each other.

Quote:
'I'm willing to become a demon to save Hayate' Wolkenritter attitude in A's? Cliche.
How many 9y old girls besides Nanoha showed such attitude?

Quote:
'We must attack together' final battle in A's? Cliche.
How is attacking together cliche? It's like saying that fighting with katana is cliche.
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Old 2009-04-28, 10:35   Link #1084
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Wow, one image and it's already disaster. As usual, the normal horsebeating mixed with that. Its getting boring people.
*jumps over the infinity arguments*

Either way, as for myself, can't wait to see what the writers have cooked up for these two featured. I like the weapon personally, despite its similarites. Looks more...deadly for some reason.
And I find the girl, just from that pic quite...interesting. Don't know exactly why, although that might be my fascination for some things concerning her. *awaits Forward interaction with the two*
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Old 2009-04-28, 10:47   Link #1085
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Originally Posted by Iromaru View Post
How many 9y old girls besides Nanoha showed such attitude?

How is attacking together cliche? It's like saying that fighting with katana is cliche.
I am pretty sure that Keroko was referring to Hayate's knights, not Nanoha. And yes, servants being all, "I will do any form of evil to help my master" is a cliche.

And the EPIC FINAL BATTLE OF AWESOMENESS WHERE EVERYONE MUST JOIN TOGETHER FOR ONE FINAL ASSAULT AGAINST THE BIG BAD has been done all the time. It is basically a staple at this point of anime and manga in general. And yes, it is a cliche.

However just being cliche does not equal bad. They wouldn't be a cliche in the first place if they didn't work well.
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Old 2009-04-28, 10:56   Link #1086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromaru View Post
It's not so cliche if the person holding the unconcious girl is another girl. And in how many such scenes the person being holded isn't a weak defenceless girl that was just saved by a guy, but a spellcaster capable of vaporising cities that was just defeated bu another girl in magical battle?
Sailor Moon, The Third, Negima, Tenchi Muyo, and that's just from the top of my head.

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Originally Posted by Iromaru View Post
Again it's not so cliche if this farewell is between two young girls that pretty much declared love for each other.
Irrelevant. Naming the 'why' does not change that it is a teary goodbye. Want me to draw out the shoujo manga? Those are filled with them.

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Originally Posted by Iromaru View Post
How many 9y old girls besides Nanoha showed such attitude?
The Wolkenritter are 9 years old now?

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Originally Posted by Iromaru View Post
How is attacking together cliche? It's like saying that fighting with katana is cliche.
Katana are cliche. Arguably one of the biggest in anime close combat.

That aside though, the attacking isn't cliche, it's the 'we must all attack together if we are to defeat this evil' bit.

Now see, what I did here was exactly what you are doing to the scene in the manga. Looking at it with a 'glass is half empty' kind of look. Yes, it's a guy. Yes, he's going to play a part in Nanoha. Yes, the author decided to give him a dramatic entry.

But in perspective, this really is no less cliche then any other of the cliche events in Nanoha. Considering he's not saving Nanoha or Fate here, I'm really having trouble figuring out why this is such a big deal.
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Old 2009-04-28, 11:07   Link #1087
Iromaru
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Originally Posted by 9taileddemon View Post
I am pretty sure that Keroko was referring to Hayate's knights, not Nanoha. And yes, servants being all, "I will do any form of evil to help my master" is a cliche.
Well now that I look at it, yeah you're right, my bad :P Such things make me realize my english still suck But still this was handled good enought to not feel like another generic master/servant "I must save you" relationship, at least for me.

Anyways after taking a good look at the picture I think this guy's gunblade must have terrible balance. It looks like normal revolver with attached blade, I can't imagine this thing in real combat.
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Old 2009-04-28, 11:10   Link #1088
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Originally Posted by Iromaru View Post
Well not really. This damsel in distress page looks exactly the same as hundreds of similar scenes from other manga. Cute scared girl being rescued by a cool guy, of course she'll have a crush on him from now on.
Except that we do not know that to be the case yet. For all we know the guy holding the girl could be someone else entirely... like taking her away or something, or a love rival, or any other number of situations. Like I said to Nina.Wolken, it's better to see what the context of the situation is exactly.

Quote:
Again it's not so cliche if this farewell is between two young girls that pretty much declared love for each other.
Even if I were to accept that fact that they declared LOVE for each other (which I honestly don't, since friendship =/= love), the "lovers saying farewell to each other" trope is rather common actually.

Quote:
How many 9y old girls besides Nanoha showed such attitude?
While Nanoha is unique from such a perspective, in the view of magical girls she's not unique in that aspect *cough* "Lyrical Tokarev, Kill Them All" *cough*

Quote:
How is attacking together cliche? It's like saying that fighting with katana is cliche.
The actual trope in question is the former enemies working together with their allies to defeat a common enemy, in which case despite the difference in tactics the trope is pretty much played straight here (in fact, the entire battle plays much like a Super Robot Wars boss finale).
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Old 2009-04-28, 11:11   Link #1089
spawnofthejudge
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Can we just say "Tropes Are Not Bad" and just wait until we actually know how the guy's being handled? All we have is one picture.

...though I'm biased against gunblades. Dammit FF8, why did you suck?
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Old 2009-04-28, 11:20   Link #1090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromaru View Post

Anyways after taking a good look at the picture I think this guy's gunblade must have terrible balance. It looks like normal revolver with attached blade, I can't imagine this thing in real combat.
It's not like the writers care. Look at Graf Eisen Gigantic form.
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Old 2009-04-28, 11:22   Link #1091
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It's not like the writers care. Look at Graf Eisen Gigantic form.
Or for that matter, the original FF8 Gunblade, which has a much larger and longer blade almost three times the size of this one, if not more

And IRL, there are heavier things you can attach to a handgun or revolver than a blade of that size
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Old 2009-04-28, 11:23   Link #1092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromaru View Post
Well some people called Nanoha A's a harem because of Chrono :P But jokes asside Erio was just a little kid. He was young enought to bathe with them.
But back then Chrono was what, about 12 years old? Just one year older then Erio was when he joined the cast.
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Old 2009-04-28, 11:23   Link #1093
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Iromaru View Post
Well now that I look at it, yeah you're right, my bad :P Such things make me realize my english still suck But still this was handled good enought to not feel like another generic master/servant "I must save you" relationship, at least for me.
Then let's wait and see how this manga handles the whole rescue thing, shall we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromaru View Post
Anyways after taking a good look at the picture I think this guy's gunblade must have terrible balance. It looks like normal revolver with attached blade, I can't imagine this thing in real combat.
Oh come now-!

... *calms down*

Well, you can handle Fate wielding a scythe in combat, right? Then this shouldn't be much of a problem to accept.
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Old 2009-04-28, 11:27   Link #1094
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Well if we go that far anything in any manga/anime can be called cliche. I can't really remember any manga/anime in the recent years that was 100% new and original. Everything was done before. But yeah, talking about this any further is pointless

Anyways the funniest scenario would be: this girl is a trap and gunblade guy is a reverse trap :P
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Old 2009-04-28, 11:28   Link #1095
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Anyways the funniest scenario would be: this girl is a trap and gunblade guy is a reverse trap :P
I am 100% in support of this scenario!
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Old 2009-04-28, 11:30   Link #1096
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Originally Posted by Iromaru View Post
Well if we go that far anything in any manga/anime can be called cliche. I can't really remember any manga/anime in the recent years that was 100% new and original. Everything was done before. But yeah, talking about this any further is pointless
Watch Baccano. While some things appears cliche, the character cast is so sympathetic, the general realization is so breathtaking that a lot of people who watched it regretted to not have watched it earlier.

Quote:

Anyways the funniest scenario would be: this girl is a trap and gunblade guy is a reverse trap :P
Family Compo explore a dysfunctional family that is like that.
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Old 2009-04-28, 11:31   Link #1097
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Anyways the funniest scenario would be: this girl is a trap and gunblade guy is a reverse trap :P
Agreed, this would own! xD
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Old 2009-04-28, 11:33   Link #1098
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I am in favor of trap/reverse trap scenario *casts vote*
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Old 2009-04-28, 11:34   Link #1099
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Noooooo, no traps/reverse traps in mah MGLN *is stabbed*
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Old 2009-04-28, 11:36   Link #1100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromaru View Post
Anyways the funniest scenario would be: this girl is a trap and gunblade guy is a reverse trap :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
I am 100% in support of this scenario!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
Agreed, this would own! xD
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Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
I am in favor of trap/reverse trap scenario *casts vote*
Clearly traps unite the masses. Count me in!
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Originally Posted by AtomicoX View Post
Noooooo, no traps/reverse traps in mah MGLN *is stabbed*
*stab* Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...
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