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Old 2008-04-04, 20:54   Link #441
bratchaman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Don_Kun View Post
thats a good point, i suppose that K1's hallucinations are what makes certain scenes seem alot more threatening than they really should be. I guess its possible that he only began to hallucinate when Rena or Mion did something that might have added to his growing paranoia such as being concerned for his safety.
The fact that Keiichi already suspected both of them as being key suspectes in the consecutive murders and the fact that were both hiding secrets from him caused him more anxiety.

although i'm still wondering how valid K1's hallucinations were in this arc, by that, I mean were they really that different from what was really going on?

Heres some examples of what I mean

1) After Rena's famous "USODA!" scene, a numerous amount of birds in the tree behind her flew away, obviously due to the sudden loud noise. another hallucination?

2) The white van. Surely K1 could not hallucinate the fact that he was almost run over by a van.

3) Rika. In ep. 3 after Keiichi starts carrying around Satoshi's bat, Rika tells him that "you must not lose the bat". If K1 was never in danger in the first place, then why would Rika tell him he needs it for defense?


Despite watching both seasons of higurashi, reading the manga, and playing the visual novel, there are still some lose ends in this arc for me. I'd appreciate it if someone could give some insight on this so that I can finally sleep at night (not really)
1. Rena seems to be a little "off" herself in several of the arcs. Especially when people talk about Satoshi and Oyashiro-sama's curse. Still could be a hallucination imo.

2. I agree with you here but he could have been so out of it, they didn't actually try run him over but he just stood there and took it that way.

3. Rika says this because for Satako's sake. You see how Satako reacts to him having the bat (running off), this is because that bat belongs to Satoshi (her older brother). That's why Rika tells him not to lose the bat.

There's alot in the series that just doesn't fit together no matter how much I try. I really think alot of it is just open to interpretation. That being said this is all my opinion.
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Old 2008-04-04, 21:12   Link #442
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Originally Posted by bratchaman View Post
1. Rena seems to be a little "off" herself in several of the arcs. Especially when people talk about Satoshi and Oyashiro-sama's curse. Still could be a hallucination imo.

2. I agree with you here but he could have been so out of it, they didn't actually try run him over but he just stood there and took it that way.

3. Rika says this because for Satako's sake. You see how Satako reacts to him having the bat (running off), this is because that bat belongs to Satoshi (her older brother). That's why Rika tells him not to lose the bat.

There's alot in the series that just doesn't fit together no matter how much I try. I really think alot of it is just open to interpretation. That being said this is all my opinion.
heh, i forgot about some of this stuff from the later arcs.

Rena does have her "off" days, especially after the mention of Oyashiro-sama's curse and Satoshi. This is due to the fact that Rena has had numeorous run ins with the curse itself and in Kai ep.18 it is revealed that Satoshi told Rena about his experience with the curse as well. In Tatarigoroshi-hen, Mion has to slap Rena to stop her from speaking of oyashiro-sama's curse. Its interely possible that Rena was concerned for Keiichi's safety and didn't want him to have a run in with the curse just as Satoshi previously had, this may have lead her into being "off herself" and K1 just hallucinated it into being targeted at him and his conversation with Ooishi.

The white van part still puzzles me...

It would make sense that Rika was simply telling K1 to not lose the bat on Satoko's behalf because she witnessed how depressed Satoko became when she saw Satoshi's bat. Again, Keiichi may have thought that he was supposed to keep the bat because Rika was warning him that he was in danger.

Like you said, this arc has many things that don't fit together, primarily because a good deal of it has been warped far from the truth by K1's hallucinations. Hopefully, when the higurashi movie comes out, We may be able to clear up a few more lose ends.
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Old 2008-04-04, 21:37   Link #443
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The White Van. It's a bit exaggerated on the anime, but it can still be explained. I haven't played the part yet in the visual novel so I'm going to compare the anime from the drama cd.

1. In the drama CD, the van came out from nowhere and was already speeding. Keiichi is on the road and barely avoids the van on time. The van doesn't stop. Keiichi just came to the conclusion that it might be a hit and run.

2. In the anime, the van is parked, and when K1 passed it, it started and almost hit K1. When it failed to hit him, you can see the driver's reaction. This could be explained as just a coincidence. The van started to run, and K1 is on the way. K1 is thrown off the road, and the van stops to check if K1 was hurt. Driver got annoyed at K1 (won't some drivers be?).

Rena could be explained by her abnormal faith in Oyashiro-sama too.
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Old 2008-04-04, 23:10   Link #444
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Originally Posted by Don_Don_Kun View Post
heh, i forgot about some of this stuff from the later arcs.

Rena does have her "off" days, especially after the mention of Oyashiro-sama's curse and Satoshi. This is due to the fact that Rena has had numeorous run ins with the curse itself and in Kai ep.18 it is revealed that Satoshi told Rena about his experience with the curse as well. In Tatarigoroshi-hen, Mion has to slap Rena to stop her from speaking of oyashiro-sama's curse. Its interely possible that Rena was concerned for Keiichi's safety and didn't want him to have a run in with the curse just as Satoshi previously had, this may have lead her into being "off herself" and K1 just hallucinated it into being targeted at him and his conversation with Ooishi.

The white van part still puzzles me...

It would make sense that Rika was simply telling K1 to not lose the bat on Satoko's behalf because she witnessed how depressed Satoko became when she saw Satoshi's bat. Again, Keiichi may have thought that he was supposed to keep the bat because Rika was warning him that he was in danger.

Like you said, this arc has many things that don't fit together, primarily because a good deal of it has been warped far from the truth by K1's hallucinations. Hopefully, when the higurashi movie comes out, We may be able to clear up a few more lose ends.
Spoiler for For White van:


Sorry If im bad at explaining myself
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Old 2008-04-04, 23:24   Link #445
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This seems to be the only arc that doesn't go into Rika's fate (the town's and Satoko's fates for that matter), only Rena, Mion, and K1.

Could the white van be a hint as to the timing of events in relation to Rika-chama? Because after going through the whole two series, we know who's van that is, and what they are doing in town. But at this point, all we have to work with is K1's point of view.
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Old 2008-04-04, 23:25   Link #446
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Originally Posted by Christen View Post
2. In the anime, the van is parked, and when K1 passed it, it started and almost hit K1. When it failed to hit him, you can see the driver's reaction. This could be explained as just a coincidence. The van started to run, and K1 is on the way. K1 is thrown off the road, and the van stops to check if K1 was hurt. Driver got annoyed at K1 (won't some drivers be?).
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Originally Posted by IvUaN View Post
Spoiler for For White van:

Thank you, I think I understand what happened with the white van, now i can get some sleep!

The white van could have been another hallucination due to K1's paranoia and the fact that he believed that someone was after his life. Again, the van was parked and only started to move when K1 passed it, so he might have thought that it was trying to hit him. I guess, the driver stopping the van after almost hitting K1 may have been due to the fact that he wanted to make sure he was alright (like most drivers would) and was pissed off because K1 wasn't watching where he was going (once again like most drivers would).

Quote:
If someone believes theres a conection between L4, L5 or nother level of the illness and those events of the Van please help develope
There may be a connection between K1 going L4 or L5 in this, but I'm not sure if he was even at L3 yet. Only when someone with hinamizawa syndrome is able to hear footsteps or senses an invisible presence (Hanyuu) is when they are diagnosed with being at L3. Keiichi only began to hear footsteps at the end of ep.4 in the telephone booth. After he murdered Rena and Mion, it probably freaked him out even more and caused additional stress. So I'm not sure if K1 was ill enough at the time, but he had some pretty warped hallucinations before that...so....I guess I'm stumped again.
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Old 2008-04-04, 23:36   Link #447
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Could the white van be a hint as to the timing of events in relation to Rika-chama? Because after going through the whole two series, we know who's van that is, and what they are doing in town. But at this point, all we have to work with is K1's point of view.
Well, the white van belongs to that hired mercanary group (I forgot their name). From watching the two seasons of Higurashi we know that they're after Rika and not K1. So I don't think that they were trying to perform a hit and run.

Although since they are a mercenary group for hire, anyone could ask for their services. The white van makes a brief appearance near the end of ep.4 after K1 murders Rena and Mion. The van can be seen along with the mercenary group and Irie. It looked as if they were there to help K1 and that may have been why they were chasing him earlier. Rena or Mion knew that something was wrong with Keiichi, so Mion (being part of the Sonozaki family) may have enlisted for their aid.

So I don't believe that the intention of the group was to kill K1 but to simply restrain him (you would too if you saw someone swinging a bat around like a madman) and treat him (hence the reason why Irie was there).

This means that the most likely scenario for the van was that K1 simply hallucinated what really happened.
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Old 2008-04-05, 02:01   Link #448
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One thing I didn't like about the way deen did this arc is that in the games and the drama cd you can tell that Keiichi's Hinamizawa Syndrome outbrake didn't happen because of what happened in the arc, but before it while he was out of town and at the funeral. As on the way back to Hinamizawa there's a scene in the game and the drama cd that Shows he could already hear Hanyu saying "I'm sorry" to him
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Old 2008-04-05, 03:17   Link #449
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Originally Posted by Don_Don_Kun View Post
Well, the white van belongs to that hired mercanary group (I forgot their name). From watching the two seasons of Higurashi we know that they're after Rika and not K1. So I don't think that they were trying to perform a hit and run.
Spoiler:
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Old 2008-04-05, 07:16   Link #450
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[QUOTE=Don_Don_Kun;1510978 It would make sense that Rika was simply telling K1 to not lose the bat on Satoko's behalf because she witnessed how depressed Satoko became when she saw Satoshi's bat. Again, Keiichi may have thought that he was supposed to keep the bat because Rika was warning him that he was in danger.
[/QUOTE]

Also, I think the writer wants us to think Rika is warning K1 to keep the bat because he is danger. At least at this point in the story where he is suspicious of everyone.
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Old 2008-04-05, 10:43   Link #451
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One thing I didn't like about the way deen did this arc is that in the games and the drama cd you can tell that Keiichi's Hinamizawa Syndrome outbrake didn't happen because of what happened in the arc, but before it while he was out of town and at the funeral. As on the way back to Hinamizawa there's a scene in the game and the drama cd that Shows he could already hear Hanyu saying "I'm sorry" to him
This also happened at the start of the manga, K1 could hear someone saying "i'm sorry" to him over and over. I thought that this was Rena at first, but Hanyuu would make more sense, as she tends to apologize to people when their hinamizawa syndrome begins.

Yes, and it would makes sense that the moment Keiichi left Hinamizawa to go to the funeral, the symptoms began to develop (since he was further away from the queen carrier).


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Spoiler:
Whoops, sorry my mistake. I'm not very good with the politics in higurashi and tend to get mixed up.
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Old 2008-04-05, 13:54   Link #452
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Originally Posted by Sterling01 View Post
One thing I didn't like about the way deen did this arc is that in the games and the drama cd you can tell that Keiichi's Hinamizawa Syndrome outbrake didn't happen because of what happened in the arc, but before it while he was out of town and at the funeral. As on the way back to Hinamizawa there's a scene in the game and the drama cd that Shows he could already hear Hanyu saying "I'm sorry" to him
It also bothers me, since also a lot of things werent exposed, explained in the ark, all was just too fast, Maybe one or two chapters more would have been perfect to explain the necessary but with the lack of info with just get more and more confused

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I think that Keiichi already had the syndrome before the hinamizawa events, since keiichi already was hering footsteps andhearing hanyuu maybe that the answer.

What I dont really undesrtand is, what could be the reason for that? Maybe the funeral but it still doesnt make too much sense, i this explained on the PC Audio Novel or the Drama CD? Because it already seemed that we solved 1 thing but noy another just popped out
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Old 2008-04-05, 16:43   Link #453
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It also bothers me, since also a lot of things werent exposed, explained in the ark, all was just too fast, Maybe one or two chapters more would have been perfect to explain the necessary but with the lack of info with just get more and more confused

lol, this thread should just be renamed "higurashi- series answers and discussion" or something like that

Despite the anime not going into as much deatil as the sound novel and the manga, it does still give small hints along the way in future episodes. Onikakushi-hen was probably too short and could have been stretched out about 2-4 episodes more. I would have liked to see the same quality of character development that is in the sound novel (maybe the relationships between K1 Mion and Rena). Although its confusing at first and still is, a good mystery would be wrecked with over-obvious hints. Higurashi does eventually explain all of the main problems by the end of the second season, but there are still a few loose ends (as we have all found).

Quote:
Originally Posted by IvUaN View Post

I think that Keiichi already had the syndrome before the hinamizawa events, since keiichi already was hering footsteps andhearing hanyuu maybe that the answer.

What I dont really undesrtand is, what could be the reason for that? Maybe the funeral but it still doesnt make too much sense, i this explained on the PC Audio Novel or the Drama CD? Because it already seemed that we solved 1 thing but noy another just popped out [/
K1 didn't actually hear footsteps after the funeral but he did hear Hanyuu apologize to him. This event was the catalyst that awakened the Hinamizawa syndrome within K1, because he left Hinamizawa and then returned. It is explained in Kai (although not at once) that there was a type of parasite present that spawned from the Onigafuchi marsh. All of the residents of Hinamizawa became infected with the disease. In order to prevent people from going L5 and so on, the rumor of Oyashiro-sama's curse was made to keep people from leaving the village. If anyone left the village, the parasites would awaken and the symptoms would develop if the patient was ever under high amounts of stress or fear. This is how K1 began to hallucinate things as he became more and more freaked out that someone was after his life.

Again, all of this is explained in the anime, but it may be too subtle to catch.
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Old 2008-04-05, 17:41   Link #454
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Originally Posted by Don_Don_Kun View Post
K1 didn't actually hear footsteps after the funeral but he did hear Hanyuu apologize to him. This event was the catalyst that awakened the Hinamizawa syndrome within K1, because he left Hinamizawa and then returned. It is explained in Kai (although not at once) that there was a type of parasite present that spawned from the Onigafuchi marsh. All of the residents of Hinamizawa became infected with the disease. In order to prevent people from going L5 and so on, the rumor of Oyashiro-sama's curse was made to keep people from leaving the village. If anyone left the village, the parasites would awaken and the symptoms would develop if the patient was ever under high amounts of stress or fear. This is how K1 began to hallucinate things as he became more and more freaked out that someone was after his life.

Again, all of this is explained in the anime, but it may be too subtle to catch.
Considering that most of the 12th episode of the second season is spent explaining what Hinamizawa Syndrome is, in addition to all the pieces from the start of Matsuribayashi-hen that talk about it, it would seem rather hard to miss.

By the way, it seems fairly implausible to think that Keiichi leaving Hinamizawa for a few days sufficed to trigger the syndrome. Many people from that village, such as Rena's mother, have lived away from it for many years without ever succumbing to the syndrome. Even when people do leave they have to be subject to some great stress in order to succumb, such as the soldiers sent to fight a war in China or Natsumi's family after the people start shunning and persecution former residents of Hinamizawa. Considering that people living in the area such as Rena, Satoko or Shion also develop the syndrome even without moving away, laying Keichi's outbreak on his trip seems quite unjustified. Besides, don't even the characters (a pretty unreliable source admittedly since they appear to have many of the details about the syndrome wrong) state at one point that the pathogen appears to have been attenuated over the centuries and that its effects are much reduced by the 80s?
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Old 2008-04-05, 19:55   Link #455
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Originally Posted by Don_Don_Kun View Post
lol, this thread should just be renamed "higurashi- series answers and discussion" or something like that
____

K1 didn't actually hear footsteps after the funeral but he did hear Hanyuu apologize to him.
Hah sorry that was my bad, I should be punished by Oyashiro Sama for that, I think I was getting too excited I didnt even think what I was writing.

Ahem...Getting back to the toppic, the parasite think its kind of imposible, and thats why oyr dearest friend Takano couldnt prove her theory,(or her grandfather theory)
so thats why I was thinking about the, how could keiichi have developed the Hinamizawa Syndrome if hi wasnt sufferin some kind of stres at that point?

Also theres something I dont catch, Every time the time goes back, do keiichi always returns from that funeral, or was that only an event for onikakushi?

I should say this is getting interesting, Maybe this post's should be moved to the higurashi question ans answer thread heh
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Old 2008-04-05, 20:20   Link #456
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Do they ever tell you whose funeral it was?

Spoiler for It would make sense:


If they did tell you, the above is kinda moot. But I was curious about what happened to her...
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Old 2008-04-05, 20:23   Link #457
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As far as it is explained in the game, it was simply a funeral of some relative.
Of course, we can also speculate that Keiichi didn't want to tell anything if it was the girl etc, considering how this past is heavy.

That is to say, there isn't any information after Keiichi's tale, so we don't know if the wound was lethal or not (probably not, or Keiichi would be even more devastated).
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Old 2008-04-05, 20:24   Link #458
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Hah sorry that was my bad, I should be punished by Oyashiro Sama for that, I think I was getting too excited I didnt even think what I was writing.

Ahem...Getting back to the toppic, the parasite think its kind of imposible, and thats why oyr dearest friend Takano couldnt prove her theory,(or her grandfather theory)
so thats why I was thinking about the, how could keiichi have developed the Hinamizawa Syndrome if hi wasnt sufferin some kind of stres at that point?

Also theres something I dont catch, Every time the time goes back, do keiichi always returns from that funeral, or was that only an event for onikakushi?

I should say this is getting interesting, Maybe this post's should be moved to the higurashi question ans answer thread heh

You will be punished for angering the shrine god

anyways, it was not leaving for the funeral that caused K1 to develop the symptoms, but rather the large amounts of stress that he was undegoing after the Watangashi festival. Eryops brought up an interesting point earlier that many residents of Hinamizawa which left and came back did not fall to the symptoms such as Rena's mother. Therefore, one would only develop the symptoms when they are under high amounts of stress or become paranoid.

Hinamizawa disease was actually explained in the anime, but I had forgotten all about that (which is why I'm re-wathching the series again).

And yes, the parallel universes that K1 and friends encounter in the new arc are created using Hanyuu's power after Rika is killed in some form or another. From watching Kai, the events seem to play out in the same fashion, although sometimes there are minor differences. For example, Satoko's uncle sometimes returns to Hinamizawa causing a Tatarigoroshi/ Minagoroshi-hen scenario. K1 always seems to transefer in every arc, so it would seem likely that he attended the funeral.

Spoiler for higurashi manga:


Therefore we can assume that K1 attends the funeral in every arc but only becomes paranoid and murders Rena and Mion in Onikakushi. Since the events in the other arcs are slightly different (Shion and Teppei Hojou comming to Hinamizawa in their repsective arcs) the outcomes are also different.

hopefully this makes some sense... and this thread has become more like a general discussion for the entire series and not episode 4
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Old 2008-04-05, 20:29   Link #459
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Fact is: the funeral trip DID triggered some symptoms for Keiichi. Obviously it wasn't exactly that severe, but enough to make him hear Hanyuu.

The "being away from Hinamizawa" is obviously moot, considering the amount of characters who could leave in and out without trouble, though most people do have "less" stress in Hinamizawa, due of the local belief, hence they are "self reassuring" themselves with their deity.

Note: for convenience and safety sake, I displaced all "overal series discussion" in the spoilerish thread instead.
Please stick with the content of the respective topic of each thread. Some people probably didn't finish the series (or not even begun yet), so it would be preferable to use this topic to talk about everything with all the clues etc.
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Old 2008-04-05, 22:03   Link #460
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Originally Posted by Don_Don_Kun View Post
You will be punished for angering the shrine god
Giving Oyashiro-sama a cream bun will do the trick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Don_Kun View Post
[I]

anyways, it was not leaving for the funeral that caused K1 to develop the symptoms, but rather the large amounts of stress that he was undegoing after the Watangashi festival. Eryops brought up an interesting point earlier that many residents of Hinamizawa which left and came back did not fall to the symptoms such as Rena's mother. Therefore, one would only develop the symptoms when they are under high amounts of stress or become paranoid.

Hinamizawa disease was actually explained in the anime, but I had forgotten all about that (which is why I'm re-wathching the series again).

And yes, the parallel universes that K1 and friends encounter in the new arc are created using Hanyuu's power after Rika is killed in some form or another. From watching Kai, the events seem to play out in the same fashion, although sometimes there are minor differences. For example, Satoko's uncle sometimes returns to Hinamizawa causing a Tatarigoroshi/ Minagoroshi-hen scenario. K1 always seems to transefer in every arc, so it would seem likely that he attended the funeral.

Spoiler for higurashi manga:


Therefore we can assume that K1 attends the funeral in every arc but only becomes paranoid and murders Rena and Mion in Onikakushi. Since the events in the other arcs are slightly different (Shion and Teppei Hojou comming to Hinamizawa in their repsective arcs) the outcomes are also different.

hopefully this makes some sense... and this thread has become more like a general discussion for the entire series and not episode 4
Hey you didnt have to bring all that, Im also a Fan of the series so I knew all that, I brought the funeral thing because in the series its explained that most of the events always happen, but since somethings can change like the death of Akasaka's wife, Satokos Uncle going to Hinamizawa, or some other events thought maybe the funeral thing may change, anyway thanks for all the explanation now I understand everything or almost everything.

Also I asked the funeral question since he is supposed to go after moving to hinamizawa if im not mistaken 2 or 3 weeks later he goes to the funeral.
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