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Old 2008-08-08, 09:07   Link #621
Eryops
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
I'm not totally sure if "Rika" is acting. You can say that Frederica indeed had to disguise herself with this cute demeanor, but I would assume that she is "originally" like that, but the "Frederica" part becomes extremely jaded of everything.
That's what I thought as well. Interestingly at one point in Saikoroshi-hen Frederika states "It's not 'my' turn. 'I' should withdraw. ... At that time, ...... I felt... 'I' faded.", which makes it sound as if Rika has two personalities and Frederika releases the original personality at times to act normally. However from what I recall none of the previous chapters implied such an internal conflict so I wouldn't say that Rika has split personalities; at least until that world.

One other thing I find interesting is that in this TIP Hanyuu says that Rika's personality "was just like Satoko's. An energetic young girl who loved to run about the wild mountains and pulling pranks." I wouldn't say that Rika's cute personality is really that similar to Satoko's. She's much calmer and while she delights upon seeing people getting pranked by Satoko never really pulls pranks herself. This would make it seem that the way she acts is in fact different from what she was like before she died for the first time.

Thus in conclusion I think that Frederika is probably emulating what her personality was before, as she says, her heart became barren. Though apparently she doesn't actually emulate it perfectly since it seems much more placid than that of Satoko.

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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
But pretty much like Rena, the "cute" moeblob mode seems to be an innate part of her.
The parallel with Rena seems spot on. Hanyuu and Rena seem quite similar in that respect. Hanyuu must be allowing herself to act like that in order to remind Rika that she's still a child; even if her behavior gets on Rika's nerves.
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Old 2008-08-09, 03:07   Link #622
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Hanyuu is supposedly oyashiro sama except the fact its a girl, she told rika she was hinamizawas god and how they blame the 4 years bizarre murders on her. she also revealed she let the villagers watanagashi her to stand against the disease. in my opinion between rika and hanyuu, rika only acts like a boss around her all the time, and hanyuu is just helpless against her. but when hanyuu gets angry she becomes demon like. ive also heard somewhere that hanyuu was founder of the watanagashi festival, so does this mean she was the first to be watanagashied to prove they can develop immunity and once it worked they took the event literally into a festival. but now since the disease is stable they dont do that anymore and the watanagashi festival became just a normal festival of thanks giving to their god oyashiro sama. is this really how the watanagashi festival turned out? for the sake of wanting to suppress the disease they have this ancient festival of killer events? why didnt call it a different name for this festival since the disease is no longer dangerous when everyones normal? the name represents that horrible time of villagers eating intestines i thought it wud be sick. or maybe its coz of oyashiro sama that started the event and became a respected god so they dont plan on changing it?
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Old 2008-08-09, 03:16   Link #623
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you are mixing wayy too much things:

1) "they" blame the 4 years murders on her? Quite not. Even if people claim it is Oyashiro-sama curse (they never implied its gender btw), they deep down thought the Sonozaki are behind these gruesome events. (this is rule Z)

2) No, Hanyuu sacrificed herself so she would take all sins in her. She is not related to the syndrome at all.

3) Frederica's behaviour isn't because of Hanyuu, but how her mind is exhausted to the point her cynical and jaded view is predominant. Hanyuu is "helpless" because she is the very reason why Rika is struggling.

4) Once again: the watanagashi ritual has NOTHING to do with the syndrome. There isn't any such fancy stuff as immunity or what not. That ritual was done by Ouka, Hanyuu's daughter.
The ritual is only because of the beliefs and the gruesome "demon blood within the onigafuchi" that left the cult doing that. But through the time, the folklore just died.
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Old 2008-08-09, 03:26   Link #624
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Congrats on wading though that and getting something legible and understandable.
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Old 2008-08-09, 07:59   Link #625
devilkiller7
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
you are mixing wayy too much things:

1) "they" blame the 4 years murders on her? Quite not. Even if people claim it is Oyashiro-sama curse (they never implied its gender btw), they deep down thought the Sonozaki are behind these gruesome events. (this is rule Z)

2) No, Hanyuu sacrificed herself so she would take all sins in her. She is not related to the syndrome at all.

3) Frederica's behaviour isn't because of Hanyuu, but how her mind is exhausted to the point her cynical and jaded view is predominant. Hanyuu is "helpless" because she is the very reason why Rika is struggling.

4) Once again: the watanagashi ritual has NOTHING to do with the syndrome. There isn't any such fancy stuff as immunity or what not. That ritual was done by Ouka, Hanyuu's daughter.
The ritual is only because of the beliefs and the gruesome "demon blood within the onigafuchi" that left the cult doing that. But through the time, the folklore just died.
wow, now that everything all makes sense. (please note i just finished the series and i havent played the game or looked at anything else on discussion of the series) like i have no idea that hanyuu actually has a daughter. "they" might not blame the 4 years murder on her exactly but she knew they were talking about "oyashiro sama" meaning "her" of all the 4 murders. the onigafuchi actually ate the villagers intestines just coz they think the superior than others? thats some reason to do it, dont they ever thought of disgust? just coz back in those days they are regarded as half demon blood, they turn to cannibalism just for that purpose seems ridiculously to me.
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Old 2008-08-09, 12:13   Link #626
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the onigafuchi actually ate the villagers intestines just coz they think the superior than others? thats some reason to do it, dont they ever thought of disgust? just coz back in those days they are regarded as half demon blood, they turn to cannibalism just for that purpose seems ridiculously to me.
Takano may well have exaggerated, e.g. the stuff about the cannibalism, in order to toy with Shion and Keiichi. The reason that the three great houses performed these public disembowelments was mainly to maintain their power over the village through fear. Disemboweling those that slight you is a good way to keep others in line, which is why the Sonozakis kept doing it (e.g. to Rina).

It's rather ironic that Hanyuu and Ouka gave rise to such a brutal regime, considering how the wanted to bring about peace.
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Old 2008-08-09, 13:26   Link #627
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but didnt they disembowel them coz of their ridiculous beliefs of being half demon? that their food chain of human intestines is to prove to the world theyre indeed different and far superior beings than the rest? did the sonozaki in the ancient times actually gained control of the village by these disembowelments? i thought it was their beliefs for entertainment of being half demon.

how exactly wud hanyuu and ouka trying to bring peace to the village with this kind of festival? they only bought fear and sicks to them that they had to watch them disembowel and eat the intestines right in front of them. peace cant be bought about through fear.
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Old 2008-08-09, 13:33   Link #628
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The watanagashi ritual was instituted to put fear in human's hearts, so that they would forevermore use spellcheck. It has obviously failed.
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Old 2008-08-09, 13:35   Link #629
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We don't know the whole story of the past. We have legends and tales. Takano doesn't know exactly what she is talking about (given Hanyuu's reaction). We have an idea of what Hanyuu and her doughter did. But after that (and perhaps before that) we don't really know what happened or why.

As with many belief systems, the reasons for things being done are generally lost on the masses, and given time, the origin and reasoning being the practice is lost even to the leaders of the system.
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Old 2008-08-10, 00:54   Link #630
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even though if the cult performing these disembowelments died eventually through time and their beliefs died with them, wudnt it still left the villagers scarred from all those disembowelments? shudnt they at least be a little scared and still follow the orders of sonozaki? it wud take probably a very long time before all this can be forgotten.
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Old 2008-08-10, 01:51   Link #631
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it seems most likely the sonozakis are the actual performers of those disembowelments when theyre trying to prove theyre "half demon" they also did it to prove their power and that everyone wud be bought fear with the disembowelments so they wud obey their rules and orders. thats why the villagers blamed the 4 years bizarre murders on them, they were literally thinking the sonozakis truly believed theyre demon blooded and carry out these incidents is proof. little do they know the sonozaki did it to also put fear into them to control them. but they dont know the sonozaki of the present time has long stop their insane beliefs as those who had this belief died.
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Old 2008-08-10, 01:55   Link #632
Eryops
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Originally Posted by devilkiller7 View Post
even though if the cult performing these disembowelments died eventually through time and their beliefs died with them, wudnt it still left the villagers scarred from all those disembowelments? shudnt they at least be a little scared and still follow the orders of sonozaki? it wud take probably a very long time before all this can be forgotten.
What? The three great houses (House Sonozaki was the weakest and least important house until a good chunk of House Kimiyoshi and almost all of House Furude died out during WWII, which gave them the opportunity under Oryou's inspired leadership to dominate the area after WWII) still command respect and control the village. I fail to see your point.
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Old 2008-08-10, 04:53   Link #633
devilkiller7
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What? The three great houses (House Sonozaki was the weakest and least important house until a good chunk of House Kimiyoshi and almost all of House Furude died out during WWII, which gave them the opportunity under Oryou's inspired leadership to dominate the area after WWII) still command respect and control the village. I fail to see your point.
i already knew that the other great houses died out leaving only a few of them. my point is the disembowelments was one of their jobs to control the village through fear, in my opinion this is a fake theory coz if they try to control the village through fear then the hinamizawa syndrome will activate causing them to go insane and kill each other. i just leave this ritual as just an extra of being half demon. theres no such thing as using these disembowelments to control the village, ironically it will cause them to go mad instead.

Last edited by devilkiller7; 2008-08-10 at 06:09.
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Old 2008-08-10, 07:43   Link #634
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During that time, it was believed that the disembowelment and consumption of the intestines were needed as to obtain immunity for the L5 syndrome ( like some sort of primitive cure)
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Old 2008-08-10, 08:37   Link #635
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During that time, it was believed that the disembowelment and consumption of the intestines were needed as to obtain immunity for the L5 syndrome ( like some sort of primitive cure)
That quasi-variolation theory comes from Miyo's scrapbook that talked about the syndrome being caused by aliens. You can't take it seriously since she probably just made it up.
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Old 2008-08-10, 09:47   Link #636
devilkiller7
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During that time, it was believed that the disembowelment and consumption of the intestines were needed as to obtain immunity for the L5 syndrome ( like some sort of primitive cure)
i also thought this was the case, but seems we were mistaken. they only ate their intestines coz of their beliefs of being "half demon." and as time passes the onigafuchi village name was then changed to hinamizawa and that belief was long gone with it as well.
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Old 2008-08-10, 12:45   Link #637
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There are so many half truths and misdirections that it is pretty much impossible to say just what is the correct answer right now. Maybe there is something we are missing, or not tying into the rest of the rumors and myths. Maybe Miyo is right but the cause is not what she thinks, or maybe the "half-demon" theory is right by started for a different reason.

There are always possibilities. Maybe Rie will clear it up a little...maybe it won't. Maybe the second title will somehow tie to the first and give us more clues as to why things happened in Hinamizawa.
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Old 2008-08-10, 19:16   Link #638
devilkiller7
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There are so many half truths and misdirections that it is pretty much impossible to say just what is the correct answer right now. Maybe there is something we are missing, or not tying into the rest of the rumors and myths. Maybe Miyo is right but the cause is not what she thinks, or maybe the "half-demon" theory is right by started for a different reason.

There are always possibilities. Maybe Rie will clear it up a little...maybe it won't. Maybe the second title will somehow tie to the first and give us more clues as to why things happened in Hinamizawa.
hopefully the 3rd season will give us more details yeah. but its gonna take place a day after the final ep of the 2nd season. so rika finally broke through fate, and after that it will probably start off with the club activities. maybe a new character or villain will be introduced. the syndrome is still not cured yet, the disease can still make ppl go insane if theyre too emotionally disturbed. they probably find out a cure for it in the 3rd season.
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Old 2008-08-10, 19:26   Link #639
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hopefully the 3rd season will give us more details yeah. but its gonna take place a day after the final ep of the 2nd season. so rika finally broke through fate, and after that it will probably start off with the club activities. maybe a new character or villain will be introduced. the syndrome is still not cured yet, the disease can still make ppl go insane if theyre too emotionally disturbed. they probably find out a cure for it in the 3rd season.
Ummm..... Do you know nothing about Saikoroshi? That's what they are animating along with a comedy arc and a short arc based on a little story from the Matsuri pamphlet and nothing like what you described happens.
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Old 2008-08-10, 19:47   Link #640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
There are so many half truths and misdirections that it is pretty much impossible to say just what is the correct answer right now. Maybe there is something we are missing, or not tying into the rest of the rumors and myths. Maybe Miyo is right but the cause is not what she thinks, or maybe the "half-demon" theory is right by started for a different reason.
Considering her scrap books and behaviour, you really cannot took them as "half truth. These are baseless "theories" that were just distributed for her personal enjoyement and somewhat her disturbing research relate more on the "god obsession" as seen in End Minagoroshi than anything else.

While she might have a proper explanations of the Onigafuchi past, that's that. Her interpretations are really beyond the scope, and Hanyuu somewhat confirmed that the rituals and such were done to rever Oyashiro.
Quote:
There are always possibilities. Maybe Rie will clear it up a little...maybe it won't. Maybe the second title will somehow tie to the first and give us more clues as to why things happened in Hinamizawa.
Rei will only tie things about Hanyuu, Rika and Frederica Bernkastel.

It won't deal with the syndrome and such, as it is pretty much explainded completely.
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