Higurashi Spoiler Discussion (for people who have read the clues/finished the series)

[Eryops]

Originally Posted by TheForsaken

@Eryops: So your point is to 34, Higurashi world is a game but to Bern it is not, right ?
It makes sense

Bernkastel also says that she was born from the labyrinth of cruel fate in which she was imprisoned. Considering that she refers to that as λδ's game, the game must be the events of Higurashi. After that game is finished Bernkastel already exists, so she can't be referring to another game that took place later since it wouldn't have been possible for her to be born from it.

[SealedTime]

but here comes a question how were they born then? If we assume the game they played was higurashi then who were the original people playing it? If bern and 34 were born from rika and takano it wouldnt make sense...if i remember correctly when u play higurashi fredrika would give u a poem... So are there two seperate rikas then?

[Ithekro]

Our concept of time is so linear that it becames hard to image something happening before it happens from the future. With the "endless" loops it could be that it was just those two, born from the loops ended up "playing" the game from day one. Or perhaps 34 started playing first (solitaire) and had bad outcomes herself (that we didn't see), and somehow looped herself (or was looped by Hanyuu everytime Rika was killed). After several loops Bern comes out of the game and challenges 34 (this is basically where we come into the story).

I'd want to place Hanyuu as a sort of GM for the game, but that doesn't work once she steps in herself. Something more than a "Reset Button" but less than a Moderator.

[SealedTime]

cool.. That really happened?

[SealedTime]

sounds logical ... Hanyuu is like an npc that revives u when u die but loses the strength to do so..

[Beruko08]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Our concept of time is so linear that it becames hard to image something happening before it happens from the future. With the "endless" loops it could be that it was just those two, born from the loops ended up "playing" the game from day one. Or perhaps 34 started playing first (solitaire) and had bad outcomes herself (that we didn't see), and somehow looped herself (or was looped by Hanyuu everytime Rika was killed). After several loops Bern comes out of the game and challenges 34 (this is basically where we come into the story).

I'd want to place Hanyuu as a sort of GM for the game, but that doesn't work once she steps in herself. Something more than a "Reset Button" but less than a Moderator.

wah... now i'm a bit confused ... from what i understand from your post, bern & 34 came from nowhere (or somewhere in "endless" loop) and had been "playing" (or fighting, challenge, etc) till Matsuribayashi/miotsukushi and some ridiculous worlds after that, am i right?

[SealedTime]

yepp... Thats what i think happened

[Eryops]

Originally Posted by Beruko08

wah... now i'm a bit confused ... from what i understand from your post, bern & 34 came from nowhere (or somewhere in "endless" loop) and had been "playing" (or fighting, challenge, etc) till Matsuribayashi/miotsukushi and some ridiculous worlds after that, am i right?

Bernkastel was born from the game. λδ existed before it started and we aren't told where she came from. Their game ended with Matsuribayashi-hen.

[Beruko08]

Originally Posted by Eryops

Bernkastel was born from the game. λδ existed before it started and we aren't told where she came from. Their game ended with Matsuribayashi-hen.

And some ridiculous things made by Bern like "Akasaka was seduced by Takano", "K1 paired with many girls", blah blah just were to sastify herself? (i don't know she would make them or not though)Not a "game" with 34?

[tobiast88]

Those are comedy arcs. They aren't canon.

[theacefrehley]

Originally Posted by Eryops

λδ existed before it started and we aren't told where she came from.

Where did you you take it from?
Isn't everything pointing that she comes from Takano?

I always thought both were the same age, by the TIPs...

[Eryops]

Originally Posted by theacefrehley

Where did you you take it from?
Isn't everything pointing that she comes from Takano?

I always thought both were the same age, by the TIPs...

I'm basing it on this post by Sterling01. Not a primary source I'll admit, but he stated it so confidently I assumed it was correct. Plus, that would have given her the time to defeat the previous strongest witch in order to earn that title.

[theacefrehley]

Originally Posted by Eryops

I'm basing it on this post by Sterling01. Not a primary source I'll admit, but he stated it so confidently I assumed it was correct. Plus, that would have given her the time to defeat the previous strongest witch in order to earn that title.

Honestly
I don't know where he took it from...

The TIPS of Umineko lists both as 1000 years old and I don't remember any reference to who's younger and older in Umineko... (except for Walgiria, for obvious reasons...)

I think she was the strongest because she was defeating Bern over and over...

[Eryops]

Originally Posted by theacefrehley

Honestly
I don't know where he took it from...

The TIPS of Umineko lists both as 1000 years old and I don't remember any reference to who's younger and older in Umineko... (except for Walgiria, for obvious reasons...)

I think she was the strongest because she was defeating Bern over and over...

If they are listed as being of the same age then I guess it makes sense to assume that they both originated from that game. Though I wonder how Lambdadelta came about since Rika actually had a continuity between worlds that could give rise to Bernkastel, while Miyo lacked that.

[Klashikari]

All witches are not supposed to be an amalgam/result of a character through labyrinth/cycles of fate.
As Bern said, Beato is no a "real wicth" per se, but the manifestation of the rules in umineko story into a "sentient woman" that acts as a witch.

As result, we can say that Lambdadelta is a "true" witch formed with Takano's will alone that never falters despite the sheer amounts of dice roll, coupled with rules X, Y and Z in higurashi.

[Golden Witch Drugs]

Originally Posted by Eryops

Bernkastel pays a visit to Miyoko, so she can appear in the real world.


Rika calls herself a hundred year-old witch. And she names herself 'Bernkastel' in Saikoroshi-hen.

Hmm... Rika calls herself a hunder year-old witch? Since in Saikoroshi-hen Rika meets a girl that calls herself Frederica Bernkastel. So I don't think that Rika and Bernkastel are the same persons. Then I would rather think that Frederica Bernkastel and Bernkastel are the same persons, since at the time Umineko is playing, Rika should still live happily in Hinamizawa. And it's not Bernkastel that pays a visit to Miyoko, it's Frederica, wich is strange since Frederica shouldn't be able to enter the real world.

[Eryops]

Originally Posted by Golden Witch Drugs

Since in Saikoroshi-hen Rika meets a girl that calls herself Frederica Bernkastel.

What? No she doesn't.

Originally Posted by Golden Witch Drugs

So I don't think that Rika and Bernkastel are the same persons. Then I would rather think that Frederica Bernkastel and Bernkastel are the same persons, since at the time Umineko is playing, Rika should still live happily in Hinamizawa.

Rika says that Bernkastel might still exist in the end of Saikoroshi-hen in a higher dimension, so I think that's the point that Rika and Bernkastel diverge.

Originally Posted by Golden Witch Drugs

And it's not Bernkastel that pays a visit to Miyoko, it's Frederica, wich is strange since Frederica shouldn't be able to enter the real world.

What? You just said in the previous sentence that Frederica Bernkastel and Bernkastel are the same person.

[Eryops]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

As result, we can say that Lambdadelta is a "true" witch formed with Takano's will alone that never falters despite the sheer amounts of dice roll, coupled with rules X, Y and Z in higurashi.

So what you are saying is that λδ isn't Takano per see but rather the personification of the rules governing Higurashi given form by Takano's incredible strength of will. That makes sense.

[SealedTime]

something i found really ironic ... 34 says that she would not forgive anyone who makes bern sad ... Yet in higurashi she keeps killing rika friends and making her fall into despair

[SealedTime]

they are the same person ... Remember what bern said during umineko? She said she used to say mii... Nippah... Now theres only one person who would say that