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Old 2008-10-29, 23:45   Link #941
Eczema
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
1. It won't create a Time Paradox because Frederica is actually using "different dimensions" in a combo with time jump. As result, in "another world", she can bring happiness to Tanashi Miyoko without disrupting the present "happy world" for Rika.
Well, I'm oversimplifying the whole deal, but Rika does not "simply" jump back in the time, that would be too contradictory by itself (such like: why only 1 Rika, etc).
All the "bad ends" worlds still drift in the kakera world: these worlds, despite terminated with a misfortuned, still exist.

3. As for Satoshi, he is under Irie's care.
1. So what is Frederica exactly? Sounds like another form of Rika.

3. I mean, will Satoshi ever get better?
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Old 2008-10-30, 05:43   Link #942
Eryops
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Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
We can't be sure about that. Bernkastel would be affecting only one universe, and do she really live in the same universe than Rika or the one seen at the strat of Minnagoroshi-hen?
Risa chan thought that Bernkastel went and changed all the previous worlds, not just one. If Rika had lived in all of them, how would Bernkastel arise?

Bernkastel exists in the higher dimension with the fragments that we saw in the start of Minagoroshi-hen (after all the entity there was Bernkastel).

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Originally Posted by Eczema View Post
1. So what is Frederica exactly? Sounds like another form of Rika.
That's... complicated. Only Ryukishi07 knows for sure.

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Originally Posted by Eczema View Post
3. I mean, will Satoshi ever get better?
This song implies that he does.
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Old 2008-10-30, 06:34   Link #943
theacefrehley
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Originally Posted by Eczema View Post
3. I mean, will Satoshi ever get better?
From what I remember, at the epilogue of matsuribayashi-hen, it's just mentioned he's still in the care of Irie, with Shion visiting him occasionally.

Since the ending is kinda of "everything is going to be alright from now on", it gives the impression that he'll wake up some day
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Old 2008-10-30, 07:18   Link #944
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[QUOTE=Eryops;2023462]Risa chan thought that Bernkastel went and changed all the previous worlds, not just one. If Rika had lived in all of them, how would Bernkastel arise?

Bernkastel exists in the higher dimension with the fragments that we saw in the start of Minagoroshi-hen (after all the entity there was Bernkastel).

But Bernkastel is Rika .She said it herself so she lived in each dimensions she passed with hanyuu even if.. Do you mean her conscious of this hundred years is blocked in this dimension . It'll explain why she lost her memories everytime she starts a new world.and why she gave to herself a new name because this conscious is differant
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Old 2008-10-30, 08:29   Link #945
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Originally Posted by Risa chan View Post
But Bernkastel is Rika .She said it herself so she lived in each dimensions she passed with hanyuu even if.. Do you mean her conscious of this hundred years is blocked in this dimension . It'll explain why she lost her memories everytime she starts a new world.and why she gave to herself a new name because this conscious is differant
I can't really understand what you're saying.

If Rika hadn't died, Hanyuu wouldn't have had to use her powers to send Rika's memories to the other worlds and Bernkastel would have never arisen. The collection of memories that replaces Rika's memories in each world would have never been generated. These memories, and by extension Bernkastel, exist because Rika was killed.
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Old 2008-10-30, 11:43   Link #946
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sorry for my previous post. I was in a hurry mood.

So I see. That's good what i thought. Bernkastel is the accumulation of her own memories everytime she's been killed . So she's Rika or should i say . Rika is a part of bernkastel.
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Old 2008-10-30, 18:15   Link #947
Eryops
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Originally Posted by Risa chan View Post
sorry for my previous post. I was in a hurry mood.

So I see. That's good what i thought. Bernkastel is the accumulation of her own memories everytime she's been killed . So she's Rika or should i say . Rika is a part of bernkastel.
That's what I think.

I've re-read Saikoroshi-hen and also managed to read the start of Minagoroshi-hen and based on these I've decided to revise my previous theories regarding the relationship of Rika and Bernkastel.

In Saikoroshi-hen Hanyuu explains to Rika that the worlds appear as fragments in the realm of the gods and how they traveled between worlds by joining these fragments. Based on that we could infer that Rika lacks memories of what the world in which Bernkastel resides is like. Also Bernkastel is aware of what happened in Minagoroshi-hen at the start of Matsuribayashi-hen, but the Rika in the world of Matsuribayashi-hen lacks that information. Based on this, I think that what happens when Rika dies is that her memories are transferred by Hanyuu into that higher dimension, where they merge with Bernkastel, and from there Hanyuu uses her power to send a portion of them into the next world. The fact that Rika is aware that a part of her exists in a higher dimension indicates that she has a connection to it, so it would make sense for Hanyuu's process for transferring memories to go through Bernkastel rather than Bernkastel being a completely separate being.

As for Bernkastel, in Minagoroshi-hen she says that she's "something that at some point developed a consciousness, then started thinking, and eventually took form". Based on that what I think is the origin of Bernkastel is that after the amount of Rika's memories that Hanyuu deposited in that dimension reached a critical mass they became self aware. The scenario for a death of Rika's mind described by Bernkastel is probably what would happen if that accumulation of memories became too great to be housed in a human being. When Bernkastel says that Rika's mind will disappear and only she will remain what I think she means is that 'Rika' will cease to exist once it becomes impossible for these memories to inhabit Rika's body.

Furthermore, in Minagoroshi-hen Bernkastel says that she only has the memories that Rika obtained from the various worlds and also states that she was born in the human world and refers to herself as Rika at one point. Based on that, as well as the things she says in the tea parties in Umineko, I think that Bernkastel views herself as an entity that's a continuation of Rika even if she is different, just as someone who had their memories transferred into a computer shortly before dying might still view himself as the same person as before despite having a very different body. Therefore I think that Brnkastel, while being somewhat separate from Rika, is still largely the same entity since she almost has the same memories as the Rika in the human world. I think that their paths only diverge when Rika decides to stop transferring between worlds at the end of Saikoroshi-hen. By the way, since Bernkastel obtains the memories from the sinless world, I believe that she derives the name Bernkastel from Rika's decision to name herself that in that world. I don't think that the name's appearance in the poems at the start of all the arcs conflicts with that theory because the poems are written retrospectively and allude to the contents of each arc, so it would make sense if they were written after the end of the story of Higurashi.

What do people think of my ramblings?
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Old 2008-10-31, 05:33   Link #948
Risa chan
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That's what i think
Bernkastel said in umineko that She used to be Human. So the theory of Bernkastel being Rika's after death is true. She refers herself as Rika

"I am who i am Frederica Bernkastel
Furude Rika and Frederica Are differant, Shame on you if you thought so"

Bernkastel is Rika ,She's the accumulation of Rika's memories and with hanyuu's power she became a form of being. Even if i think Bernkastel is Rika , she's the dark voice in kai , so she lived all these worlds , not as frederica but as Rika . But like her memories return to Frederica at the end, it's the same.

There's another thing who let me think Bernkastel is Rika definitly.

There's a higu(star) thing the 25#

Frederica meets Shion, rena , satoko . But Rika is not here. I think Rika disappeared after the end of the game and became Bernkastel.
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Old 2008-10-31, 05:55   Link #949
Eryops
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Originally Posted by Risa chan View Post
There's a higu(star) thing the 25#

Frederica meets Shion, rena , satoko . But Rika is not here. I think Rika disappeared after the end of the game and became Bernkastel.
The urahigu clips are simply jokes. There are ones that have Hanyuu without horns or that running gag with Takano standing on Tomitake's corpse, so that scene with Bernkastel never really happens. After Saikoroshi-hen Rika lives out the rest of her life as a normal person.
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Old 2008-10-31, 06:04   Link #950
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well i'm not sure about that ( even if that's not funny for frederica T_T) but so then sorry . Even if there's something i found funny.. Rika didn't have big breast. But frederica has . Frederica chose her body's form , plus the cat tails rika liked very much.I think that's the first thing who told me Frederica was Rika.
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Old 2008-10-31, 07:09   Link #951
theacefrehley
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well i'm not sure about that ( even if that's not funny for frederica T_T) but so then sorry . Even if there's something i found funny.. Rika didn't have big breast. But frederica has . Frederica chose her body's form , plus the cat tails rika liked very much.I think that's the first thing who told me Frederica was Rika.
Where did you hear that Bernkastel has big boobs?
Fanart?
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Old 2008-10-31, 07:11   Link #952
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Most likely fanarts from Umineko.
That said, "officially", judging from Umineko art, Bern is not flat chested anymore, rather "normal" even with a loli body, sorta.
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Old 2008-10-31, 07:11   Link #953
ganbaru
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Originally Posted by theacefrehley View Post
Where did you hear that Bernkastel has big boobs?
Fanart?
Most likely,
( umineko's FanArt?)
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Old 2008-10-31, 07:17   Link #954
Eryops
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Most likely fanarts from Umineko.
That said, "officially", judging from Umineko art, Bern is not flat chested anymore, rather "normal" even with a loli body, sorta.
Since even a 9 year-old has breasts in Umineko, I guess Ryukishi07 felt obligated to give Bern some too.
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Old 2008-10-31, 18:17   Link #955
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Well , becoming a witch isn't funny. "LEt's enjoy witch's powers then" she tought i guess.
But Yeah Bernkastel has more breast . in all umineko's fanarts but in the original art too

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Old 2008-11-20, 22:05   Link #956
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Hi! I'm new to the forums! I wanted to join because I had this theory on Onikakushi-hen that I was hoping to share and hear opinions on.

OKay so here it is *Clears throat*

I know Keiichi was going level 5 in this arc and started hallucinating that Mion and Rena were acting like psychos.

Now if I recall, Keiichi suposedly had a few encounters with the Yaimino {SP?}. I do not think he was hallucinating at this point. My reasons are for after watching episode 4/reading the manga/ and playing half the game.

Remember when Mion said she called the director? I remember Irie being referred to as such, and Irie is into baseball or enjoys playing it which explains why Rena said he would be happy to hear that.

Now after reading the TIPS I learned what happened to the dam muderer, the one with the right arm. Takano and her men captured him and brought him to the hospital. Irie then dissected the man for research on Hinamazwai {SP?} sydrome.

Now back to episode 4. After Keiichi killed Mion and Rena, I remember when he looked out the window and saw someone that looked like doctor Irie. This is what I think: I think Takano or Irie discovered Keiichi was going crazy, and Irie decided to either dissect Keiichi for research, or do what he did with Satoshi and insert him into the hospital secretly and try to cure him.

This is only my opinion on just what might have happened in onikakushi-hen, and I would love to hear what everyone else has to say about it.

Last edited by EscapeAndBreakFree; 2008-11-20 at 22:06. Reason: spoiler tag
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Old 2008-11-20, 23:06   Link #957
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Originally Posted by EscapeAndBreakFree View Post

Hi! I'm new to the forums! I wanted to join because I had this theory on Onikakushi-hen that I was hoping to share and hear opinions on.

OKay so here it is *Clears throat*

I know Keiichi was going level 5 in this arc and started hallucinating that Mion and Rena were acting like psychos.

Now if I recall, Keiichi suposedly had a few encounters with the Yaimino {SP?}. I do not think he was hallucinating at this point. My reasons are for after watching episode 4/reading the manga/ and playing half the game.

Remember when Mion said she called the director? I remember Irie being referred to as such, and Irie is into baseball or enjoys playing it which explains why Rena said he would be happy to hear that.

Now after reading the TIPS I learned what happened to the dam muderer, the one with the right arm. Takano and her men captured him and brought him to the hospital. Irie then dissected the man for research on Hinamazwai {SP?} sydrome.

Now back to episode 4. After Keiichi killed Mion and Rena, I remember when he looked out the window and saw someone that looked like doctor Irie. This is what I think: I think Takano or Irie discovered Keiichi was going crazy, and Irie decided to either dissect Keiichi for research, or do what he did with Satoshi and insert him into the hospital secretly and try to cure him.

This is only my opinion on just what might have happened in onikakushi-hen, and I would love to hear what everyone else has to say about it.
More than likely they hadn't made either decision yet. Remember, they didn't immediately think 'We have to dissect this patient' or 'We have to save this one'. They had to think about their choices carefully and do whichever seemed best. However, if Keiichi did not die in Onikakushi, more than likely he would've been captured by the Yamainu/Irie and kept like Satoshi, unless he somehow would be able to take C-103 and be treated without severe brain damage.

Those are my thoughts, I lurk here often.
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Old 2008-11-21, 05:40   Link #958
Eryops
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Originally Posted by EscapeAndBreakFree View Post
Now back to episode 4. After Keiichi killed Mion and Rena, I remember when he looked out the window and saw someone that looked like doctor Irie. This is what I think: I think Takano or Irie discovered Keiichi was going crazy, and Irie decided to either dissect Keiichi for research, or do what he did with Satoshi and insert him into the hospital secretly and try to cure him.

This is only my opinion on just what might have happened in onikakushi-hen, and I would love to hear what everyone else has to say about it.
You aren't saying anything new. Though I'll note that Satoshi was never vivisected and that Takano, who was the one pushing for the vivisection of patients, is gone. As a result I don't think that Irie had any plans to vivisect Kaiichi but instead wanted to treat him, just as he did when he ordered his subordinates to tranquilize Keiichi in Tatarigoroshi-hen.
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Old 2008-11-21, 08:41   Link #959
kingsky123
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i personally thought frederica was a rika that had lived her existance, i mean rika transcends time right. so imagine a rika that has lived and relived full long healthy lives. thats when she becomes frederica
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Old 2008-11-21, 08:42   Link #960
tobiast88
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Did you happen to miss the part where Rika dies every time ? The part that's central to Higurashi and makes the whole thing meaningful ?
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